Everyone Is Talking D, So Ill Talk O!

[dlts20]

After the game Flip ripped into the team saying how he can get a bunch of reporters to score on them easily and how he can take any guy on the team one on one. No doubt the D sucks and sucks bad so that is what everyone is going to look at. However, I think the O is what is killing us even more. My biggest worry that I talked about all offseason is how I wanted to keep EJ just for his Offense or make Wes Unseld Jr. the HC while getting a defensive guru as an assistant or get a defensive guru as the HC and keep Unseld Jr. to run the Offense. I was so worried that Flip's system wouldnt fit with our players. Even if it did fit, I felt that our O was the most unstoppable in the league if we are healthy, and with the added scorers. When I was watching the training camp on NBA TV, I thought the system looked like crap. It wasnt fluid at all and the only thing guys were getting were long jumpers with hands in there face. Sure enough it was just camp so you couldnt rip them too much.

Then the early season came and it was the same thing. Thats when I started getting scared that maybe this system just doesnt fit with our guys. The good thing is that weve improved alot since then but its still topping off. No doubt Gil isnt all the way back and Miller is out but we should still be scoring more points and being more effective. People who thought we would win 50 thought we would have the top Offense in the league. The shot selection has been bad at times and weve had turnovers but even without that you can see the struggle. As of now our D is starting to be just as bad as it was under EJ while the Offense is alot worst and we have way more offensive talent then we did under EJ. I use to rip Gil for not driving more but when I really start watching the games, I dont think he can that much even if he wanted to. They keep him at the top of the key and the way the O is desinged, its like its so easy for the D to close down the lane when he drives and take it away. Therefore he always has to pull up but its a hard shot because the Center is in his face and the guard is coming over his back. Every once in awhile he still forces the drive but its just that. A force. Therefore he never is able to finish.

Then you have CB who everyone is ripping on but he's just so out of sorts in the system. He's money at the 3 in the Princeton but in this system everything he does looks forced. He never gets the ball in the true spot that he wants and he's not a catch & shoot guy which is the plays he gets most of the time. He catches the ball out by the 3pt line alot but doesnt have great handles so he cant blow by anyone. I think all that stuff comes back to the D. When the O is crappy then these guys get down and start walking on D. Its like the only time we play great on O is when we are lucky and everyone is on fire. In a normal game its just all choppy. Its all halfcourt ball with hardly any quick hitting plays. Then everyone says Flip is a genius but the stuff looks basic to me. I can always tell what we are going to do and can easily stop it. I love all the designed quick hitters in the Princeton and all the counters off of it. I also love how we get the ball to CB in his sweet spot.

Flip talks about all his PG's being scorers but none of them are anything like Gil. Billups & Cassell are midrange pull up guys so it fits with them well but Gil likes to drive and get fouled if he can. Our 2 best plays that we scored on at will in the Princeton arent in here. 1 is getting CB on the iso on the wing. We never get that now, not in the spot he wants it or the spacing around him that he wants. The other play is the pick & roll with Gil. Again, the one we have here is loose and designed to either kick the ball back to the other guy or for Gil to get the jumper. EJ's pick & roll always left Gil one on one in the lane with the opposing Center which was a mismatch all day. Now that never happeneds. Eric Snow still talks non stop about how our Princeton was the hardest O to stop in the league and how Gil could attack at will. That doesnt happened now. Even Brent Barry was talking about how he can tell we are struggling with Flip's system which is totally differnet from the Princeton and more halfcourt style. We shouldnt need Miller to win games but we do. I think we would look alot better with Miller because he can play that Rip Hamilton roll while also being a great playmaker and rebounder. Still, we shouldnt need that to win these games.

Foye is playing well but has anyone noticed that the O gets screwed up alot when he's on the floor. He was supposed to be the only guy who kind of new the sytem because Wittman ran it last year in Minny but when he's on the floor I often seeing Gil point for guys to go a certain way and everyone gets all crossed up. It never happeneds unless Foye is on the floor so thats why I put it on him. Boykins head has gotten big like he is the star so he holds onto the ball way too much and shoots too much instead of getting it to the big 3. People still have to understand that as bad as we are at 10-20, we could easily be atleast .500 if we finish basic plays at the end like FT's. Thats not even being a homer. Those are truly basic stuff that we missed because Gil isnt all the way back. We also had a good 10 game or more stretch when Gil wasnt doing anything. People have to take all that into account. That doesnt make us special, that just means that as much as we sucked we still should be atleast .500. Still, we arent playing good ball, even in those wins or close losses. People keep talking about our D but even when our D sucked before and we were all O, we still would blow teams out some games. We cant do that now even though we have alot more weapons.

In the past we could have a 10 game stretch where we average 113 or we could score 130 on a given night. Now we are losing these close games and making out at 95-105. We get no fast break oppurtunites and no easy shots. Its too halfcourt, too deliberate, and its limiting our guys too much. Last game was the 1st game where I was like, "now Im truly getting worried that the O wont get better and we wont win no matter what". I hold out hope that everytime I say things like that, it always starts to get a little better just like it got better from training camp and got better from the early season. Does it have another gear? I hope so. We need it. Some are starting to blame Wood on O but he' still getting like 10ppg and Detroit had Ben Wallace so its not like you need all 5 guys. We should have enough without him but we wont ever put up big numbers until Gil can get normal paint drives and Caron can get a rythm withtin the Offense. They cant right now and they are forcing stuff because of it. Again, I think the 2 guys the O is built alot for are AJ & MM. They will do well no matter what so thats why I want Miller back soon. I also want him back because I dont want guys like NY on the bench. I dont want all vets in the starting unit and young guys or midgets on the bench.

I still would rather start NY and come off the bench with Foye & Miller together along with Blatche.. If Flip wont do that then we still will be better with Foye starting and coming off the bench with Boykins, MM, and Blatche or you start Miller again so he can get alot of miutes and come off the bench with Boykins & Foye or Foye & Young. I wanted Miller to come off the bench when he came back to stengthened that but now Im thinking that he may need to start again because he fits the system so well and he will get more minutes as a starter and we need his rebounding, playmaking, IQ, and range. As of now its just like the Pistons fans said when they said why they couldnt win in the playoffs. The O is desgined for all jump shots and good D takes that away in the playoffs. I wish Flip would change up some or throw some Princeton in there from Unseled Jr. or I hope the O just grows more and or maybe gets alot better with Miller back

[miller31time]

Makes you wonder what this team would have looked like if Tom Thibodeau had actually come here to be our assistant coach, with EJ at the helm. Maybe we would be 20th (as we currently are) or better on defense while maintaining the 5th (or better) in offensive efficiency that EJ usually had us at. Ratings like that would have put us at or above 50 wins.

But who knows....

[dlts20]

Even Ivan Carter just said on WPL that he has to get on Flip also because there are alot of times where he’s like “I dont know what Flip is running”. He said atleast with EJ they had alot of movement and guys got the ball in good spots. Flip’s O looks bad right now

[Gilfanatic123]

Yeah I'll agree. Usually when I'll watch the games I'll be wondering what Flip is thinking. He'll bring in different rotations-- the second unit, at ill-opportune times. We take too many jumpshots and we don't go in the paint enough. Only a few guys will actually drive to the basket. Other people on our team just like settling jumpshots. I'll agree that our offense needs to be worked on. I think there are a lot of things that need to be done.

[fishercob]

Bottom line is that Flip has had great success with this offense elsewhere. The problem isn't the scheme. The players running it are a bad match for it (ironically, they fit EJ's Princeton very well). That's on Ernie for bringing in Flip to run his system when the two don't fit.

I was talking to a guy on the metro last night who says that he knows Flip is a good coach, but the Wiz play as if they're poorly coached. I completely understand what he meant.

By the way, since you brought it up, Ivan Carter is a no-talent whose main interest is in promoting Ivan Carter and buddying up to players (like Ahmad Rashad and Shtu Scott). He knows very little about basketball and it's not a coincidence that the overall coverage of the Wiz has improved this year in his absence.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Kobe, Lamar, and Butler sucked pretty bad as a trio 34-48 in 04-05 with a Defensive Rating: 111.4 (30th of 30)

Almost the same, but you know Arenas is better than Kobe.

Where is our Gasol trade?

[dlts20]

fisher, trust me when I tell you that Im the biggest Ivan hater there is so it may be hyprocritical for me to post what he said but I did agree with him "this time". I just think the O feels real choppy right now, even when we are playing well. Its not smooth & fluid like we were in the Princeton

[fishercob]

fisher, trust me when I tell you that Im the biggest Ivan hater there is so it may be hyprocritical for me to post what he said but I did agree with him "this time". I just think the O feels real choppy right now, even when we are playing well. Its not smooth & fluid like we were in the Princeton

I don't think anyone is arguing with that. The coach and overall roster just don't mix. Seeing as the roster has failed with three coaches and the coach was just hired for big money, it probably makes sense to adjust/overhaul the roster.

[dlts20]

fisher, trust me when I tell you that Im the biggest Ivan hater there is so it may be hyprocritical for me to post what he said but I did agree with him "this time". I just think the O feels real choppy right now, even when we are playing well. Its not smooth & fluid like we were in the Princeton

I don't think anyone is arguing with that. The coach and overall roster just don't mix. Seeing as the roster has failed with three coaches and the coach was just hired for big money, it probably makes sense to adjust/overhaul the roster.

I was worried about that before the season but Im still not there just yet. Flip is a proven coach and we have talent. I still hold out hope that it will click sooner or later