GRODBoard 2020 (second to last update!)

[clyde21]

Maxey is in a good spot

but Melo and McDaniels...that's ruff

[getrichordie]

...

Changed up my tiers. You would be proud. Any thing that jumps out to you?

Were you always that high on Jaden and Maxey? What makes you like them so much?

I was high on Maxey at the beginning of March, cooled on him, and then decided to go with my gut. As far as McDaniels, I’ve always liked him as a 3, but I think I started overthinking him because of how quiet he was in a lot of Huskies games, but ultimately decided that he’s worth it.

I just think Maxey is going to be big positive on defense and has the potential to have a big impact on offense. He can comfortably drive right or left and he’s shown flashes of being able to hit deep 3s. He has the strength, length, and lateral quickness to lock down 1s and some 2s on the perimeter. I just can’t see him flopping in the NBA. I think his floor is a high-end 7th player. His ceiling is a more efficient Mitchell, in my opinion.

As far as McDaniels, he kind of reminds me of Ingram, but a little bit more raw. I’m buying into his ability to rise up and hit shots over almost anyone at 6’10 playing the 3. I just think his potential is super high. He’s got some guard skills, too, and when he gets stronger, he’s going to be a pest on defense with his 7’7 wingspan.

[getrichordie]

Maxey is in a good spot

but Melo and McDaniels...that's ruff

See above post for McDaniels reasoning.

As far as LaMelo goes, I just think he has a lot of untapped potential. He didn’t get to show everything he can in just 12 games in the NBL, so I think he still can learn a lot and grow as a player. If his brother can learn to be a better outside shooter, so can he.

And as we’ve seen, he’s flashed some White Chocolate level passes. He’s elite in that regard. Not for the league, but he’s already probably one of the best passers in the last 20 years.

[EvanZ]

As far as McDaniels, he kind of reminds me of Ingram, but a little bit more raw. I’m buying into his ability to rise up and hit shots over almost anyone at 6’10 playing the 3. I just think his potential is super high. He’s got some guard skills, too, and when he gets stronger, he’s going to be a pest on defense with his 7’7 wingspan.

Wait, where did you see he has a 7'7" ws? Pretty sure it's 7'1". I've seen it listed even less.

[getrichordie]

As far as McDaniels, he kind of reminds me of Ingram, but a little bit more raw. I’m buying into his ability to rise up and hit shots over almost anyone at 6’10 playing the 3. I just think his potential is super high. He’s got some guard skills, too, and when he gets stronger, he’s going to be a pest on defense with his 7’7 wingspan.

Wait, where did you see he has a 7'7" ws? Pretty sure it's 7'1". I've seen it listed even less.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/the-curious-case-of-jaden-mcdaniels-trying-to-make-sense-of-the-uw-freshman-stars-baffling-season/%3famp=1

Okay, it’s probably an error. It’s probably 7’1.

[clyde21]

there's a difference between being able to pass and being able to run an offense/team...White Chocolate had fancy ass passes but wasn't really that good of a lead guard, Melo has sweet passes but a lot of it is show little substance

[clyde21]

lol yea that's for sure an error, 7-7 is like Bol/Gobert level wingspan

[getrichordie]

lol yea that's for sure an error, 7-7 is like Bol/Gobert level wingspan

In one of the first few plays in this video, you can see McDaniels catch the ball out at the perimeter and then proceed to drive and then he dribbles the ball behind his back, hesitates, and then drills the mid-range jumper. That’s an advanced move for his age and while it’s something you can teach, his comfort level with it isn’t something that is easily replicated. I just think when you look at a McDaniels that puts on 15-20 lbs of muscle and a couple seasons under his belt, he’s going to be really tough to stop.

Watch on YouTube

[getrichordie]

Updated.

[The-Power]

Can you sell me on Ramsey? His free throw shooting is scary, and what does he project to be if he's not an elite shooter? His inside scoring is underwhelming to put it mildly (really bad at the rim, poor midrange percentages, low FTr), his size is only okay for an SG and his playmaking is nothing special either. What do you see him becoming at the NBA level to warrant taking him in the lottery?

I also am much lower on Maxey (and Edwards) – a player where opinions really differ – and comparatively higher on guys like Nesmith and Green, who I believe have relatively easy paths to carving out a role on good teams in the NBA.

Maybe it's just the philosophical disagreement that makes it expected. I value on-ball shot creators highly when I believe they can do it at a high level but not much when I believe they will need the ball in their hands to play their game but don't justify this kind of usage at the next level. Whereas you seem to rank on-ball Guards/Wings more highly when they've shown flashes of what they could be if things break right (but maybe I'm wrong and you're ranking these guys higher for other reasons).

I was, for instance, lower on Sexton, DSJ and Fox than most pundits, too. Don't think either ‘approach’ is inherently worse, but it could explain some different results – although certainly not all of them, considering where you rank LaMelo (high-risk prospect ranked low) and Vassell (low-risk prospect ranked high). Which brings me to my last questions: Do you ‘only’ fear that LaMelo will bust, or do you also consider his ceiling to be lower than what most seem to believe? And what makes you rank Vassell so high, especially in comparison to other projected (mid-)first-round wings in this draft (Nesmith, Green, Okoro and let's also include Williams)?

[getrichordie]

there was a glitch in the matrix

[getrichordie]

Can you sell me on Ramsey? His free throw shooting is scary, and what does he project to be if he's not an elite shooter? His inside scoring is underwhelming to put it mildly (really bad at the rim, poor midrange percentages, low FTr), his size is only okay for an SG and his playmaking is nothing special either. What do you see him becoming at the NBA level to warrant taking him in the lottery?

I also am much lower on Maxey (and Edwards) – a player where opinions really differ – and comparatively higher on guys like Nesmith and Green, who I believe have relatively easy paths to carving out a role on good teams in the NBA.

Maybe it's just the philosophical disagreement that makes it expected. I value on-ball shot creators highly when I believe they can do it at a high level but not much when I believe they will need the ball in their hands to play their game but don't justify this kind of usage at the next level. Whereas you seem to rank on-ball Guards/Wings more highly when they've shown flashes of what they could be if things break right (but maybe I'm wrong and you're ranking these guys higher for other reasons).

I was, for instance, lower on Sexton, DSJ and Fox than most pundits, too. Don't think either ‘approach’ is inherently worse, but it could explain some different results – although certainly not all of them, considering where you rank LaMelo (high-risk prospect ranked low) and Vassell (low-risk prospect ranked high). Which brings me to my last questions: Do you ‘only’ fear that LaMelo will bust, or do you also consider his ceiling to be lower than what most seem to believe? And what makes you rank Vassell so high, especially in comparison to other projected (mid-)first-round wings in this draft (Nesmith, Green, Okoro and let's also include Williams)?

Re: Ramsey

I know Ramsey has a low free-throw percentage, but I see him being what McLemore was supposed to be. It’s a strange thing when a player can shoot from deep but struggle from the free throw line.

But the thing that I like about Ramsey is that he makes smart cuts and I think he projects to be a solid defender because of his strength and length (6’8-6’10 wingspan).

That’s in addition to his confident, good-looking stroke from deep. I think he’s going to be a legitimate threat from 3 every time he steps on the floor. I don’t imagine him handling the ball a ton at the next level, but he’s going to open things up for the offense and I as I said before I think he can at least hold his own defensively.

I think the free throw % issue is correctable. If he can shoot 70%, I think that’s enough to plug him into a starting 2. We’ve seen similar sized guards succeed.

I don’t fear that Ball is a bust, I just think there’s too many red flags at this point. His shooting is definitely a concern. How many point guards have succeeded at the NBA level with no outside shot? Not many. I think the potential is there, but I just can’t bring myself to place him any higher than this.

As for Nesmith, I think he’s being overvalued. He had a nice 14 game run before he got hurt, but that’s just not a big enough sample size for me. His AST:TO ratio is concerning and his conference metrics aren’t exactly promising. I also think the foot injury impacts his value here.

[clyde21]

looks like you dropped McDaniels quite a bit...what changed?

[getrichordie]

looks like you dropped McDaniels quite a bit...what changed?

I realized his turnover percentage was 20%. I still think he corrects that issue if he gets stronger. Also, can't think of a ton of guys with his kind of body who got a whole lot stronger. His frame isn't the best either. He has thin shoulders.

Sometimes I have a tendency to look at the best case scenario for each player, but often I find the need to bring myself back down to earth on a prospect. I think McDaniels worst case scenario is Bruno Caboclo. I think the possibility exists that McDaniels just doesn't get strong enough and struggles to be consistent on both sides of the floor. So I think there's enough risk involved to merit placing him in a lower tier, though I may have placed him too low. May flip him and Pokusevski around, honestly. Think Poku has proven less than McDaniels.

Where do you stand on Pokusevski and McDaniels?

[getrichordie]

Updated again. Moved LaMelo down a tier, moved up Okoro up to tier 1. Dropped Hayes down to tier 2. Moved Lewis Jr. up to tier 3. Moved Anthony down to tier 3.

[EvanZ]

I still don't get how you're so low on Terry, when he clearly has upside well beyond most guys in this draft. You're just being stubborn at this point lol.

[getrichordie]

I still don't get how you're so low on Terry, when he clearly has upside well beyond most guys in this draft. You're just being stubborn at this point lol.

Maybe, but I just don't see it. I think he's a Tebow (Toppin as well). Someone who will excel in college but will struggle mightily at the next level. Just have concerns about athleticism and size. Just think people are falling in love with him because of Steph and Trae.

[getrichordie]

Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.

Can you link me to some good Bolmaro tape? Haven't been able to find any. And if he is a 6'8 Rubio, why isn't he a pro yet?

[Catchall]

Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.

Can you link me to some good Bolmaro tape? Haven't been able to find any. And if he is a 6'8 Rubio, why isn't he a pro yet?

These are highlights just posted...

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_logo

This is some analysis of this ball skills...

Watch on YouTube

[getrichordie]

Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.

Can you link me to some good Bolmaro tape? Haven't been able to find any. And if he is a 6'8 Rubio, why isn't he a pro yet?

These are highlights just posted...

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_logo

This is some analysis of this ball skills...

Watch on YouTube

Highlights definitely look juicy, but his dribble is high and wide when driving. He's gonna get stripped a lot at the next level.

And if Avdija is 6'8/6'9, Bolmaro is definitely a lot closer to 6'6.