Miles Contract Returning to Portland

[GOBlazers]

I'm sure this has been discussed in length, but I can't find it due to the vastly inferior Realgm.com that resulted from the "upgrade"

Miles has served his drug related suspension and has begun playing games for Memphis. Assuming Miles plays in at least 10 games this season...

How will this affect Portland's 2009 cap space? Does Miles contract return?

If it does, can Portland appeal and get the decision overturned? If so, how/why?

Thank you

Edit:
A link to the old topic would also be great

[Dunkenstein]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=827526

[GOBlazers]

Going by just what the CBA says, it looks like...

Miles salary stays off the blazers books unless a doctor jointly appointed by the players association and NBA determines that Miles knee injury is no longer career ending.

I'm unsure about when the blazers are allowed to reapply for taking Miles contract off the books though. (so the blazers might get stuck with one year of miles contract).

[Dunkenstein]

Going by just what the CBA says, it looks like...

Miles salary stays off the blazers books unless a doctor jointly appointed by the players association and NBA determines that Miles knee injury is no longer career ending.

Wrong. Read the thread.

[GOBlazers]

It looks like miles contracts will go back on the Blazer books if he plays in more than 10 games for any team.

And (the bad part) the blazers can't reapply to have Miles contract removed until a year after Miles completes his 10+ game season.

So, Miles contract will be back on the books for the 2009-2010 season (assuming he continues to play this season). And if he plays in 10+ games next year too, then we have to pay for his final year in 2010-2011 too.

Bummer.

[FGump]

....unless a doctor jointly appointed by the players association and NBA determines that Miles knee injury is no longer career ending.

Doctors don't determine if a player's career has actually ended - the box scores do. Therefore as long as Miles is currently playing in the NBA (10 games in a season), he can't be said to have incurred a "career-ending" injury already - because when he's playing his career hasn't ended. And any contractual relief due to the Blazers for a career ending injury would obviously be inapplicable as a result.

Here's an issue to consider regarding Miles, though, and I think GMs may have really missed an opportunity with him. There is one team for whom Miles has MAJOR value, albeit in a different way than we usually think of "value." That team would be Portland, which will be hit with about $9M in tax this season, plus lose another $9M in spending room if Miles plays mop-up minutes in 10 or more games this season.

So consider this. Why wouldn't a team have signed Miles (or claimed him on waivers from Boston) and then used him to extort a pick or a player from Portland by exploiting that issue? Couldn't they play him one minute a game for 9 games, then have offered him to Portland in a trade for a #1 pick or two, or for a young helpful player? The value to the Blazers would be to have him where they could stop his further use for the remainder of this season and thereby would save big money. Miles wouldn't play, but he'd still get paid. Maybe that sort of trade angle and player usage would be considered underhanded by the competition or the union, but it sure seems like it would have been allowable by the rules and the smart thing to do. I doubt he carries the value of a #1 pick or a talented youngster otherwise either by trade or by potential game contribution, and as a minimum contract player he definitely would have been a snap to trade.

[GOBlazers]

Doctors don't determine if a player's career has actually ended - the box scores do. Therefore as long as Miles is currently playing in the NBA (10 games in a season), he can't be said to have incurred a "career-ending" injury already - because when he's playing his career hasn't ended. And any contractual relief due to the Blazers for a career ending injury would obviously be inapplicable as a result.

Doctors do make that determination according to the wording of the CBA... I agree with you though, because obviously a doctor already determined that Miles injury was "career ending," yet Miles is still in the league.

The CBA should have used some verbage other than...

The determination of whether a player has suffered a career-ending injury or illness shall be made by a physician selected jointly by the NBA and the Players Association.

I think Memphis does plan on extorting Portland in order to make a favorable trade. Probably for outlaw, since it has been rumored for months.

[shrink]

So consider this. Why wouldn't a team have signed Miles (or claimed him on waivers from Boston) and then used him to extort a pick or a player from Portland by exploiting that issue? Couldn't they play him one minute a game for 9 games, then have offered him to Portland in a trade for a #1 pick or two, or for a young helpful player? The value to the Blazers would be to have him where they could stop his further use for the remainder of this season and thereby would save big money. Miles wouldn't play, but he'd still get paid. Maybe that sort of trade angle and player usage would be considered underhanded by the competition or the union, but it sure seems like it would have been allowable by the rules and the smart thing to do. I doubt he carries the value of a #1 pick or a talented youngster otherwise either by trade or by potential game contribution, and as a minimum contract player he definitely would have been a snap to trade.

LOL! This is exactly the kind of rules-testing ideas that I love to see! Economically, it would clearly be worth "something" to POR to make this trade, just like its worth something to MEM to reduce the Blazer's influence in the 2009 free agent market. Or of course, POR could send goons to MEM to give Miles an injury that truly is "career-ending," but that creates too big a slippery slope.

I have to say, I'd never even considered your trade, so thanks for that post.

[FGump]

1. Doctors do make that determination according to the wording of the CBA... I agree with you though, because obviously a doctor already determined that Miles injury was "career ending," yet Miles is still in the league.

2. I think Memphis does plan on extorting Portland in order to make a favorable trade. Probably for outlaw, since it has been rumored for months.

1. Doctors do make that sort of PREDICTIVE call on an injury, in the CBA wording, but the wording goes on to tell us what happens if the doctors have made a mistake. And that mistake is defined as the player playing 10 or more games in a season, so it's the actual playing itself (or lack of same) rather than the doctors that is the ultimate determiner of what is career ending or not.

2. Unless I've missed something, he can't be traded before the deadline. So Memphis doesn't have that opportunity. A team would have had to sign him by mid-November to create that option.

[Three34]

Re: 2 - Miles wouldn't have to necessarily be in any trade. Memphis culd demand something from Portland with the promise to waive Darius if they get it. Although I doubt this happens - they're probably just angling for Portland to lose a big chunk of cap space, seeing as they may be a free agency competitor next summer.

[casey]

1. Doctors do make that sort of PREDICTIVE call on an injury, in the CBA wording, but the wording goes on to tell us what happens if the doctors have made a mistake. And that mistake is defined as the player playing 10 or more games in a season, so it's the actual playing itself (or lack of same) rather than the doctors that is the ultimate determiner of what is career ending or not.

Is there any type of recourse Portland would have if a team did play him for 10 games but only like a minute a game?

[FGump]

Re: 2 - Miles wouldn't have to necessarily be in any trade. Memphis could demand something from Portland with the promise to waive Darius if they get it.

That doesn't solve the problem for Portland.

If the deal is for the Grizz to waive him, there are 20-something other teams that could claim him off of waivers and play him. Even if he clears waivers there's nothing to prevent a team from picking him up and playing him. And you know he would NOT sign with Portland.

Another idea might be to arrange some sort of collusion between the two teams over Miles' playing time, with Portland slipping a multi-million dollar check under the table to Memphis and Memphis keeps him on the bench, but we know that's not the answer either.

I just don't see an answer where Memphis can get legal compensation from Portland, and where the result is Miles is certain to play less than 10 games.

Although I doubt this happens - they're probably just angling for Portland to lose a big chunk of cap space, seeing as they may be a free agency competitor next summer.

At this point, I agree that's their best bet. But does Memphis REALLY intend to increase payroll this summer? I wonder if that will actually happen.

[Dunkenstein]

While all the conspiracy buffs out there have fallen in love with the "Memphis conspiring to get compensation from Portland in exchange for not playing him ten games" scenario, the reality of the situation is that the other 29 GMs in the league would treat Chris Wallace as a pariah if did something like that. The same goes for the "play Miles for a couple minutes in ten games to screw Portland" scenario.

There is competition between GMs, but there is a line over which they won't cross. Both those scenarios cross that line. There's an "old boys network" among NBA front office people and Wallace knows that as long as he's GM of Memphis, he's got to deal with these guys on a regular basis. As someone in a front office position told me, should Wallace pull one of these stunts and subsequently lose his current job in Memphis, he would never get a job in the NBA again. Nobody likes a back-stabber.

I'm willing to bet if Memphis plays Miles for nine games and finds that he no longer has an NBA game, they'll either keep him on the bench or waive him. And I also bet that if he's waived, no other team would pick him up and play him for a game, just to screw Portland. If another team were really interested in Miles, they'd probably wait till next season when the 10 game clock restarts.

[Three34]

I just don't see an answer where Memphis can get legal compensation from Portland, and where the result is Miles is certain to play less than 10 games.

Well, there'll obviously be nothing certain. But how many teams have need or reason to bother with Miles other than Memphis?

At this point, I agree that's their best bet. But does Memphis REALLY intend to increase payroll this summer? I wonder if that will actually happen.

Well they signed Josh Smith to an unsuccessful offer sheet last summer. So maybe they'll be willing to spend if they deem the player involved to be reaaaaaally worth it. They have to pay somebody, after all.

[shrink]

While all the conspiracy buffs out there have fallen in love with the "Memphis conspiring to get compensation from Portland in exchange for not playing him ten games" scenario, the reality of the situation is that the other 29 GMs in the league would treat Chris Wallace as a pariah if did something like that. The same goes for the "play Miles for a couple minutes in ten games to screw Portland" scenario.

There is competition between GMs, but there is a line over which they won't cross. Both those scenarios cross that line. There's an "old boys network" among NBA front office people and Wallace knows that as long as he's GM of Memphis, he's got to deal with these guys on a regular basis. As someone in a front office position told me, should Wallace pull one of these stunts and subsequently lose his current job in Memphis, he would never get a job in the NBA again. Nobody likes a back-stabber.

I'm willing to bet if Memphis plays Miles for nine games and finds that he no longer has an NBA game, they'll either keep him on the bench or waive him. And I also bet that if he's waived, no other team would pick him up and play him for a game, just to screw Portland. If another team were really interested in Miles, they'd probably wait till next season when the 10 game clock restarts.

I don't understand this at all. This is a competition, isn't it, and the ability to form a winning basketball team comes from all throughout your organization?

Second, why would the other 29 teams feel that Wallace was a backstabber? Do they feel some connection to the the multi-billionaire Paul Allen's cap space plans? Allen didn't do anything to even deserve this $9 mil in free cap space -- an overpaid player fortunately got injured on his team.

And third, what of a team's duty to the NBA players? Darius Miles was out of the league for a "career-ending injury" that turned out not to be "career-ending." So the good old boys are supposed to treat him like a pariah, bar his chance to play in the NBA, until Allen clears the extra cap space this summer?

I'm sure you have a better view of the NBA society than I do, and I don't disagree that you could be right, but I don't understand what underlying logic would be applied to make them act like that.

[shrink]

Might be all moot. The Grizzlies waived Darius Miles after last night's game:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... artner=RSS

[Dunkenstein]

So I guess Chris Wallace wasn't inclined to screw with Portland after all.

[Three34]

I bet he goes back. They didn't pay the ten games of his suspension just to only play him for two. They're waiving him to avoid the guarantee on his cotnract - I bet he goes back afterwards.

[GOBlazers]

I believe it, but I don't remember how many 10 day contracts a team can use on a player in a season.

I doubt any GM other than Kevin Pritchard would be distrustful of Chris Wallace for playing Miles. I think most teams would be greatful.

Pritchard is going to hate him. lol

[Three34]

You can sign a maximum of two ten day contracts with a specific team before you have to either sign for the rest of the season, or bugger off.