3 year contract for 2nd rounders

coolness · Post #1 » by **coolness** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:39 pm

I always thought it was just 2. Then using the trade machine, I saw Mario Chalmers and Deandre Jordan on 3 year contracts. I don't know why they got that. I could only guess that it is a rarely used team option or something to do with being an early 2nd rounder.

As a Pistons fan, I have interest in the eventual contracts of Dajuan Summers (35th) and Jonas Jerebko (39th). Do the Pistons get to choose what kind of contract they will get?

Dunkenstein · Post #2 » by **Dunkenstein** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:55 pm

coolness wrote:I always thought it was just 2. Then using the trade machine, I saw Mario Chalmers and Deandre Jordan on 3 year contracts. I don't know why they got that. I could only guess that it is a rarely used team option or something to do with being an early 2nd rounder.

As a Pistons fan, I have interest in the eventual contracts of Dajuan Summers (35th) and Jonas Jerebko (39th). Do the Pistons get to choose what kind of contract they will get?

The lengths and dollar amounts of contracts given to second rounders are negotiated between the teams and the players. Usually in a three-year contract, only a portion of the second and third years are guaranteed based on whether the player is on the roster on specified dates.

Last year the Thunder signed second round pick Kyle Weaver to a four-year contract.

FGump · Post #3 » by **FGump** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:06 am

In virtually all cases, 2nd rounders and rookie free agents getting two years or less rather than more has to do with CBA limits, not sharp negotiating ability.

The reason is because a team doesn't get any extra cap exception to sign a 2nd rounder or rookie free agent. That means they have to use cap room if they have it, otherwise BAE, MLE, or minimum salary exception must be used.

Only cap room or the MLE allows a deal longer than 2 years. Most don't have cap room and will be using the MLE elsewhere. But they can have all the minimum salary deals they want, so typically two years it is.

The longest I've ever seen for a rookie FA - carved from an MLE - is 5 years.

lakerfan10770 · Post #4 » by **lakerfan10770** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:30 pm

Interesting stuff, I never really realized that. So it seems that Meeks contract is probably for a portion of the MLE and looks like this:

2009-2010 - $500,000
2010-2011 - $762.195 (Partially guaranteed)
2010-2012 - $884,293 (Partially or not guaranteed at all)

Modern_epic · Post #5 » by **Modern_epic** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:14 am

I don't feel like making a thread for this, but since this is speaking of the second round...

Do teams make the things they "send" to fulfill trades that are essentially for nothing as random as possible?

I was looking at the protection on the pick TO owes Miami, and I ran across this, "owed" to the Raps:

The L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick to Toronto (if pick is 51 - 55). If the L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick is not among the 51st through 55th picks, then the L.A. Clippers' obligations to Toronto shall be extinguished. [L.A. Clippers - Toronto, 1/7/2009]

I can't think of any reason they would choose to send this back for Hassan Adams, except to make the guys at the league office laugh at how random it is.

Smoke[MaxX] · Post #6 » by **Smoke[MaxX]** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:36 pm

It's probably to shed salary for essentially nothing.

Modern_epic · Post #7 » by **Modern_epic** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:20 pm

Smoke[MaxX] wrote:It's probably to shed salary for essentially nothing.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that. I was merely pointing out how absurd that pick protection is, for no real reason. The clips send it if they are between the 6th and 10th best team 6 years away. If the are one of the 5 best, or 20 worst, they don't send it. Why not protect it from 56-60? There is no more reason to expect the pick will be in that range than the current one, and the pick would be (mildly) less valuable from 56-60.

Post #8 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm

Modern_epic wrote:I don't feel like making a thread for this, but since this is speaking of the second round...

Do teams make the things they "send" to fulfill trades that are essentially for nothing as random as possible?

I was looking at the protection on the pick TO owes Miami, and I ran across this, "owed" to the Raps:
The L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick to Toronto (if pick is 51 - 55). If the L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick is not among the 51st through 55th picks, then the L.A. Clippers' obligations to Toronto shall be extinguished. [L.A. Clippers - Toronto, 1/7/2009]

I can't think of any reason they would choose to send this back for Hassan Adams, except to make the guys at the league office laugh at how random it is.

Yeah, in salary dumps or any moves like that, there has to be something of some value sent back. However, when a team like the Clippers is agreeing to chew up salary for Hassan Adams for Toronto, and Adams poses no on-court benefit for the Clippers, it's not really right for Toronto to ask for something of actual value, or else they won't be able to dump Adams' contract.

For example, when Indy S&T'ed Peja to New Orleans a couple years back in order to get a large TPE that they eventually used up on Al Harrington, Indy took back the rights to former Hornets 2nd round pick Andrew Betts. Betts has never, nor will he ever play in the NBA. He was simply a filler so the trade would legally work.

Modern_epic · Post #9 » by **Modern_epic** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:17 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:I don't feel like making a thread for this, but since this is speaking of the second round...

Do teams make the things they "send" to fulfill trades that are essentially for nothing as random as possible?

I was looking at the protection on the pick TO owes Miami, and I ran across this, "owed" to the Raps:
The L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick to Toronto (if pick is 51 - 55). If the L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick is not among the 51st through 55th picks, then the L.A. Clippers' obligations to Toronto shall be extinguished. [L.A. Clippers - Toronto, 1/7/2009]

I can't think of any reason they would choose to send this back for Hassan Adams, except to make the guys at the league office laugh at how random it is.

Yeah, in salary dumps or any moves like that, there has to be something of some value sent back. However, when a team like the Clippers is agreeing to chew up salary for Hassan Adams for Toronto, and Adams poses no on-court benefit for the Clippers, it's not really right for Toronto to ask for something of actual value, or else they won't be able to dump Adams' contract.

For example, when Indy S&T'ed Peja to New Orleans a couple years back in order to get a large TPE that they eventually used up on Al Harrington, Indy took back the rights to former Hornets 2nd round pick Andrew Betts. Betts has never, nor will he ever play in the NBA. He was simply a filler so the trade would legally work.

Right, again, I am well aware of that. That's why I put send in quotes, and said they were for nothing...

I was only pointing out that in this case the teams sent something absurdly random.

Post #10 » by **Three34** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:12 pm

They didn't really have al alternative. They had no valueless draft rights to send, and couldn't really send cash since the whole point of the deal for them was receiving cash. So, amusingly overdescribed protected future second round pick it was.

Also, they couldn't protect it from 56-60 because the same pick is owed to Denver, top 55 protected, as a part of the Cheick Samb salary dump. So if it's 51-55 it goes to Toronto, if it's 56-60 it goes to Denver, and if it's anything else then we can pretend that none of this ever happened.

Modern_epic · Post #11 » by **Modern_epic** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:18 pm

Ah, that is a reasonable explanation then. And I suppose the double protection one year could be seen as lower risk than moving it to 2014. Thanks Sham.

Does the minimum range for picks need to be 5 spots?

Post #12 » by **Three34** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:21 pm

I've often wondered that, too. I've never seen anywhere that says it has to be, and yet, it always always always is. So presumably, yes.

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #13 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:42 am

lakerfan10770 wrote:Interesting stuff, I never really realized that. So it seems that Meeks contract is probably for a portion of the MLE and looks like this:

2009-2010 - $500,000
2010-2011 - $762.195 (Partially guaranteed)
2010-2012 - $884,293 (Partially or not guaranteed at all)

That would be preferable for me as a Bucks fan if that was the case, however I have been told that the 09-10 salary was ~$650k (they didn't have the PRECISE amount off the top of their head).
As for any partial guaranteed years, the info I have was vague on that. I was told ~$650k for the first year, and then the rest of the contract was like Mbah A Moute's. But I don't know if that meant just that the salaries were the minimum salaries like you listed (which is the case with Mbah A Moute) or also if that 3rd year was NG'd (which is the case with Mbah A Moute).

Dunkenstein · Post #14 » by **Dunkenstein** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:33 am

Year one: $650,000 (all guar)
Year two: $762,195 (all guar)
Year three: $884,293 (conditional)

andyhop · Post #15 » by **andyhop** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:25 am

Modern_epic wrote:Ah, that is a reasonable explanation then. And I suppose the double protection one year could be seen as lower risk than moving it to 2014. Thanks Sham.

Does the minimum range for picks need to be 5 spots?

Beno Udrih was traded to the Wolves for a 2nd rounder with top 57 protection

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #16 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:02 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:Year one: $650,000 (all guar)
Year two: $762,195 (all guar)
Year three: $884,293 (conditional)

Thanks!

I imagine you didn't have that info handy or you would have included it, but my guess for year 3 would be completely NG'd if waived before a certain day (likely mid to late October of 2011)

Dunkenstein · Post #17 » by **Dunkenstein** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:59 pm

^^^ Dan, usually a contract that will be NG'd on a single specific date is earlier than that . . . July or early August at the latest. This gives the player enough time to find another team. By October most teams have their rosters set.

Occasionally a conditional contract may have multiple dates, like $250K if the player is on the roster July 15, gully guaranteed if he is on the opening day roster.

And you're correct. I don't know the conditions of the third year in this case.

coolness · Post #18 » by **coolness** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:57 pm

Is it official that Jodie Meeks, etc signed for a portion of the MLE? Does that mean they waived his rights and simply signed him before sb else could? I guess with a Boozer/Cleveland-esque agreement.

I hope it doesn't pertain to the MLE. Then Summers and Jerebko can be on 3-4 year deals cuz the Pistons sure don't have cap space sitting around anymore. They are promising enough that I want them locked in, and it might come to be relevant if they expire at the same time as Stuckey.

Dunkenstein · Post #19 » by **Dunkenstein** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:08 pm

A minimum contract can be for a maximum of two years. Since Milwaukee agreed to sign Meeks for three years, they couldn't use the minimum salary exception and were required to use a portion of the MLE to sign him.

killbuckner · Post #20 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:27 pm

coolness- you do not have to waive a player in order to use the MLE to sign them.