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[Diop]

Tobias Harris...

SMH.

bucks board has been trying to tell everyone this guy was good for 2 years now. i guess they were right.

That has to suck for them.

[dmutombo321]

Lo and behold, in only his second or third start, Kanter goes for 23points/22reounds on 83% shooting against, of all teams, the Bobcats.

Just thought I’d post a big (but light-hearted) I told you so to all the posters who had no clue what they were talking about with respect to Kanter.

A number of people on here laughed at me earlier this season when I claimed that Kanter would eventually be a 15/10 center who shoots 50% and I suggested Charlotte merely consider the possibility of some package of MKG + Biyombo or the Portland pick for Kanter.

Back in January, I wrote the following on page 72-73 of the thread below:

[url]
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1214847&start=1065 [/url]

“I've been a big proponent of inquiring on Kanter for a long time. He's the type of young, legit center that we need going forward. Making inquiries on him should be a priority. It amazes me that people are talking about throwing huge $ at Pekovic when Kanter is easily capable of similar production and is 6 years younger and still on a rookie deal.

Quite honestly, save for Kemba, Charlotte's assets might be a stretch to get Kanter. But they should at least try. Everyone loves MKG but there is no reason to be opposed to swapping him for another equally young and equally potential-laden talent, especially considering the 2014 draft will have 3 offensively gifted SF's who are almost certainly going to be far better players than Gilchrist. Same story with Biz. If there is good value to be had, he needs to be expendable.

I'd float MKG + Biz or MKG + Portland pick for Kanter. Utah might still pass but they'd have to look hard at such an offer. An athletic lock down wing defender who could eventually be a gerald wallace type would be great next to a shooter like Hayward.

Dont under-rate Kanter and dont let his numbers fool you. He's buried behind jefferson, millsap and Favors so he gets very few minutes. When he does see the court, he produces. As Masterlchiro points out, its entirely possible MKG alone wouldnt even be enough to entice Utah. Both young players have high potential but Kanter has demonstrated more likelihood of fulfilling his than MKG. With 36 mins per night on a team like Charlotte, Kanter would be a double-double machine.

Apart from Pekovic and maybe Dwight Howard, he establishes post position on offense and maintains his post ground on defense better than anyone in the league. I guarantee everyone, once Kanter is getting 36 mins per night, be it at Utah or somewhere else, you can count on a 14-17 point and 9-11 rebound guy. Utah isnt blind to this, they just happen to be in the enviable position of having two other allstar bigs and another top 3 pick big in front of him.

If we can pry him away for anyone on the roster apart from Kemba, Charlotte would be foolish to not at least make an inquiry as he could anchor the center spot for the next decade. Hell, I'd even throw in our later first rounder if necessary.

First, people speak of "giving up" on our top three pick as if we're waiving him. We're not. The suggested Kanter inquiry would involve us trading our top 3 pick for another top 3 pick who is roughly the same age, has shown greater sign of fulfilling his potential at this albeit early stage and plays a position of need that is much harder to fill. And I would of course start discussions with Biz and the Port 1st before putting MKG on the negotiating table.

I suspect a number of Kanter's naysayers have hardly watched him play for Utah. As noted, his numbers are pedestrian because he only sees 15 mpg as he is buried behind two allstar post men and another top pick in Favors. When he plays, he produces. Had some monster games in the preseason and an 18/9 outing in a rare start earlier this year with Jefferson and millsap injured. The rest of the time, he is usually playing sporadic minutes riding the pine.

Kanter is 3x the player Biyombo is and apart from raw shot blocking, is vastly superior to him in every facet of the game. Utah wouldnt have interest in Biyombo alone. Once Kanter is getting starters minutes in Utah or elsewhere, just like the James Harden doubters from a couple years ago, people are going to eat their words.



Bassman, glover and a few others voiced support for my suggestion but most others were by and large insistent that Kanter was nothing special and were downright incredulous that I would have the audacity to propose parting with MKG for him. A few even went to far to argue that Biyombo was a better big man prospect than Kanter – something that looks even more silly after Kanter’s man handling of Biyombo last night

Seeing trade ideas like MKG and Biyombo for Kanter just makes me giggle if anything.

All this Kanter love is hilarious. He not only doesnt start, but he plays behind Derrick Favors as well, but dont worry he is going to be a top 5 big man in basketball when given minutes?????????

Jefferson and Millsap are good players, but they are not even top 15 big men in the NBA. If Favors and Kanter were sooo good don't you think Utah would have been trying to deal Millsap or Jefferson actively to get another piece back instead of just waiting for them to become free agents?

If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now [15/10 on 50% shooting], he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

Enough of this Biyombo/MKG for Kanter talk. Its making me nauseous.

Kanter's per-minute numbers are solid, but he's incredibly turnover-prone, less productive on the defensive glass than Biz, and not a shot-blocker.

LOL, not really. Biz is already a floor general on defense and all he needs to do is keep improving his offensive fundamentals which is a lot more likely than Kanter magically becoming the athlete Biz is. Kanter in no way shape or form has the same physical gifts as Biz which vastly limits his potential. The only thing Kanter is vastly superior to Biz is post moves, touch, and lower body strength. I doubt Biz ever develops comparative touch since that is something you're more or less born with but another couple years of development and Biz can easily be as productive as Kanter who is not likely to get much better as a player than he is now.

I'm glad some of you aren't GMs

Too many people on Real GM are poor judges of talent and over-reliant on raw stats with no regard to context.

Not that it would matter this far in the season because Utah would now laugh and hang up the phone if we made the offer, but is there anyone here who would still not at least merely consider parting with MKG for Kanter having now seen first hand what Kanter is capable of?

[SWedd523]

Ah, the much anticipated Mutombo post.


Was disappointed it didn't come sooner

[dmutombo321]

^

Lol - I'm sure you knew it was coming half way through the first quarter Sweed

[Stun704]

You act as if we could realistically obtain kanter. And trading Mkg + any asset would be a gross overpay. He's good but he didn't exactly pay against top competition last night

[James Gatz]

I understand your point and respect you calling for Kanter being a dominant force but I still would prefer MKG. Kanter definitely has potential but MKG also has a high ceiling. Kanter dominated our abysmal bigs with numbers I don't he's capable of putting up night in and out.

Something also to consider is that MKG has a longer rookie contract. With the CBA being what it is now those value deals should be milked for as much as they can especially for a small market team.

[dmutombo321]

Stun - There was a chance we could have realistically obtained him earlier in the season before he broke out (which I predicted he would), but not now.

Save for Kemba, they wouldnt trade him for anyone on our pathetic roster, MKG included.

And yes, Charlotte certainly isnt top competition but 23/22 on 83% shooting is laudable no matter who its against.

If it wasnt, you'd see players posting 20/20 lines against us every other game.

[thruthefire]

Kanter's per-minute numbers are solid, but he's incredibly turnover-prone, less productive on the defensive glass than Biz, and not a shot-blocker.

For the record, in this same post (the very next sentence, in fact), which the OP conveniently left out, I wrote:

I'd rather have Favors, but would be willing to move Biz and Portland's first for Kanter.

Also for the record, nothing I described above regarding Kanter and Biz is untrue. Kanter's per-minute numbers are solid (16.8 PER), he is very turnover-prone (20.5 TOV%), he is less productive on the defensive glass than Biz (18.9 DRB% compared to 20.7), and he's not a shot-blocker.

Nice try.

[thruthefire]

Overall, though, I was actually looking forward to this post. It should be eye-opening for the number of people who ridiculously overvalue Biz and Mullens on this board. (I don't think it's fair to say MKG is overvalued yet, after how well he played through most of this season.)

[dmutombo321]

thruthefire - apologies- I pulled up the original thread and just hastily started cutting and pasting through the voluminous treasure trove of anti Kanter posts and could have included several others. Your post, as you note, was merely referencing stats and didnt belong among the others. Although the second part of your quote and subsequent post implicitly suggest that you'd prefer not to part with Gilchrist, on which I of course have a differing opinion.

As to your point about our fans over-rating our own players - its one with which I couldnt agree more.

[MasterIchiro]

Glad I wasn't one of those quotes. I'm going to be careful what I say around you. I think fans who dumped on your proposal reacted against the idea of trading MKG moreso than rejecting the notion of acquiring Kanter. Nothing is good enough for MKG. It's pack-like behavior when it comes to that guy. In fact, I would wager a good number of posters here want Wiggins to play PF or MKG to play guard if he's drafted rather than the logical thing, drafting Wiggins to play his natural position and trading MKG for another need.

And for the record, I was one poster who said your original offer would fall short and that Utah would want more or something to that effect.

[countryboi]

man the mods should delete this mess...this is not bobcats related and its nothing but baiting

[MasterIchiro]

I think Mutombo's primary motive is to facilitate discussion:

but is there anyone here who would still not at least merely consider parting with MKG for Kanter having now seen first hand what Kanter is capable of?

[JT2006]

I think Mutombo's primary motive is to facilitate discussion:

but is there anyone here who would still not at least merely consider parting with MKG for Kanter having now seen first hand what Kanter is capable of?

we have a trade thread. this is just not a good thread for the board

[KembaWalker]

this thread is more about the freefall of MKG than an "i told you so" of Enes Kanter ability. if November/December MKG were still on my mind I'd call you dumb for suggesting to trade him for Kanter even after a game like last night. Unfortunately MKGs badness has gone on for 2 months now as opposed to 2 weeks so we're left sitting here wondering which MKG is the fluke..Nov/Dec or Jan/Feb which makes your idea more realistic

[HornetJail]

[Eoghan]

A) It was one game

B) My post is still valid, homey.

[thruthefire]

https://twitter.com/AminNBA/status/307962315796520960

[Eoghan]

https://twitter.com/AminNBA/status/307962315796520960

Antoine Walker would disagree with him apparently.

[BigSlam]

Lo and behold, in only his second or third start, Kanter goes for 23points/22reounds on 83% shooting against, of all teams, the Bobcats.

Just thought I’d post a big (but light-hearted) I told you so to all the posters who had no clue what they were talking about with respect to Kanter.

A number of people on here laughed at me earlier this season when I claimed that Kanter would eventually be a 15/10 center who shoots 50% and I suggested Charlotte merely consider the possibility of some package of MKG + Biyombo or the Portland pick for Kanter.

Back in January, I wrote the following on page 72-73 of the thread below:

[url]
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1214847&start=1065 [/url]

“I've been a big proponent of inquiring on Kanter for a long time. He's the type of young, legit center that we need going forward. Making inquiries on him should be a priority. It amazes me that people are talking about throwing huge $ at Pekovic when Kanter is easily capable of similar production and is 6 years younger and still on a rookie deal.

Quite honestly, save for Kemba, Charlotte's assets might be a stretch to get Kanter. But they should at least try. Everyone loves MKG but there is no reason to be opposed to swapping him for another equally young and equally potential-laden talent, especially considering the 2014 draft will have 3 offensively gifted SF's who are almost certainly going to be far better players than Gilchrist. Same story with Biz. If there is good value to be had, he needs to be expendable.

I'd float MKG + Biz or MKG + Portland pick for Kanter. Utah might still pass but they'd have to look hard at such an offer. An athletic lock down wing defender who could eventually be a gerald wallace type would be great next to a shooter like Hayward.

Dont under-rate Kanter and dont let his numbers fool you. He's buried behind jefferson, millsap and Favors so he gets very few minutes. When he does see the court, he produces. As Masterlchiro points out, its entirely possible MKG alone wouldnt even be enough to entice Utah. Both young players have high potential but Kanter has demonstrated more likelihood of fulfilling his than MKG. With 36 mins per night on a team like Charlotte, Kanter would be a double-double machine.

Apart from Pekovic and maybe Dwight Howard, he establishes post position on offense and maintains his post ground on defense better than anyone in the league. I guarantee everyone, once Kanter is getting 36 mins per night, be it at Utah or somewhere else, you can count on a 14-17 point and 9-11 rebound guy. Utah isnt blind to this, they just happen to be in the enviable position of having two other allstar bigs and another top 3 pick big in front of him.

If we can pry him away for anyone on the roster apart from Kemba, Charlotte would be foolish to not at least make an inquiry as he could anchor the center spot for the next decade. Hell, I'd even throw in our later first rounder if necessary.

First, people speak of "giving up" on our top three pick as if we're waiving him. We're not. The suggested Kanter inquiry would involve us trading our top 3 pick for another top 3 pick who is roughly the same age, has shown greater sign of fulfilling his potential at this albeit early stage and plays a position of need that is much harder to fill. And I would of course start discussions with Biz and the Port 1st before putting MKG on the negotiating table.

I suspect a number of Kanter's naysayers have hardly watched him play for Utah. As noted, his numbers are pedestrian because he only sees 15 mpg as he is buried behind two allstar post men and another top pick in Favors. When he plays, he produces. Had some monster games in the preseason and an 18/9 outing in a rare start earlier this year with Jefferson and millsap injured. The rest of the time, he is usually playing sporadic minutes riding the pine.

Kanter is 3x the player Biyombo is and apart from raw shot blocking, is vastly superior to him in every facet of the game. Utah wouldnt have interest in Biyombo alone. Once Kanter is getting starters minutes in Utah or elsewhere, just like the James Harden doubters from a couple years ago, people are going to eat their words.



Bassman, glover and a few others voiced support for my suggestion but most others were by and large insistent that Kanter was nothing special and were downright incredulous that I would have the audacity to propose parting with MKG for him. A few even went to far to argue that Biyombo was a better big man prospect than Kanter – something that looks even more silly after Kanter’s man handling of Biyombo last night

Seeing trade ideas like MKG and Biyombo for Kanter just makes me giggle if anything.

All this Kanter love is hilarious. He not only doesnt start, but he plays behind Derrick Favors as well, but dont worry he is going to be a top 5 big man in basketball when given minutes?????????

Jefferson and Millsap are good players, but they are not even top 15 big men in the NBA. If Favors and Kanter were sooo good don't you think Utah would have been trying to deal Millsap or Jefferson actively to get another piece back instead of just waiting for them to become free agents?

If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now [15/10 on 50% shooting], he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

Enough of this Biyombo/MKG for Kanter talk. Its making me nauseous.

Kanter's per-minute numbers are solid, but he's incredibly turnover-prone, less productive on the defensive glass than Biz, and not a shot-blocker.

LOL, not really. Biz is already a floor general on defense and all he needs to do is keep improving his offensive fundamentals which is a lot more likely than Kanter magically becoming the athlete Biz is. Kanter in no way shape or form has the same physical gifts as Biz which vastly limits his potential. The only thing Kanter is vastly superior to Biz is post moves, touch, and lower body strength. I doubt Biz ever develops comparative touch since that is something you're more or less born with but another couple years of development and Biz can easily be as productive as Kanter who is not likely to get much better as a player than he is now.

I'm glad some of you aren't GMs

Too many people on Real GM are poor judges of talent and over-reliant on raw stats with no regard to context.

Not that it would matter this far in the season because Utah would now laugh and hang up the phone if we made the offer, but is there anyone here who would still not at least merely consider parting with MKG for Kanter having now seen first hand what Kanter is capable of?

While we are taking the opportunity to spruik...

Pity you were about a year behind those of us who were already in the know and were singing his virtues a year earlier...



Of course, you make a post like this dmutombo321 and you also better make a post for ALL the guys you have called as break out players and don't break out as well.

And there have been a lot of those!!