BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[JMAC3]

Jalen Williams is already 22 years old, averaged 14ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg and shot 35% from three on under 3 attempts per game and everyone is ready to blow their load for him. That is how valuable wings are in the NBA. He is 6'4.5" without shoes and a 7-2 wingspan.

Miller is 20 years old and is 6-9 with a 7-1 wingspan. IDK about you but those numbers seem within reach for him this year without him going nuclear.

[wilson115]

Good write-up from James Plowright. Cited how Arkansas marked him well (1-6 from 3) even though he still got his 20 points.

https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/nba-draft-2023/how-does-brandon-miller-fit-with-the-charlotte-hornets

Watch on YouTube

[dmutombo321]

Jalen Williams is already 22 years old, averaged 14ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg and shot 35% from three on under 3 attempts per game and everyone is ready to blow their load for him. That is how valuable wings are in the NBA. He is 6'4.5" without shoes and a 7-2 wingspan.

Miller is 20 years old and is 6-9 with a 7-1 wingspan. IDK about you but those numbers seem within reach for him this year without him going nuclear.

*He just turned 22 less than a month ago and so will LaMelo before training camp even opens. Neither are applying for their NBA pensions any time soon.

*Don't focus on emerging rookies' skewed whole year averages when they're relegated to a limited bench role early in the season. By that standard Mark Williams would look pretty pedestrian to an outside observer too. We know he's not and we know he's a promising up and comer by what he did in the late season games when he finally got consistent minutes. Likewise, Jalen Williams played stellar ball post all-star break once he was given a more prominent role. Focus instead on his post AS Break numbers including the 15 games during the month of March where he posted 20/6/4.5/1.5 shooting 56/46/86 from the field, three and charity stripe respectively while SGA was out and he was featured. Factor in his defensive impact and yes, his performance in the second half of his rookie season was indeed worth blowing ones load over.

I actually quite like Miller; his shot is legit and I'm a fan of his length. He may become a Paul George-esque wing as some have predicted. There's an equal chance he's jabari smith 2.0. Another great college sniper who struggled creating his own offense once he got to the nba. I like Jalen Williams even more. I think he has equally high upside and he's already shown he has a safe floor.

This particular debate reminds me of the 2012 offseason when the then Charlotte Bobcats were owners of the second pick and rumored to have engaged in discussions with OKC about possibly trading the #2 to OKC for a 22yo 16ppg extension eligible bench player from the Thunder who had shown promise but had few opportunities to be featured more prominently with Durant and Westbrook dominating the offense.

Ultimately, no trade materialized and James Harden ended up in Houston instead while we went on to redeem the #2 for MKG.

If there's any chance OKC is enamored with the upside of a Miller, Scoot or Thompson and is willing to part with Williams, I for one would be happy to trade them potential for a proven commodity that's only a year into his rookie deal.



Sent from my motorola edge (2021) using RealGM mobile app

[JMAC3]

A lot has been made of LaMelo fit with Scoot, but I think how Miles and Brandon Miller fit together is a key thing to look at as well.

Miles is a 3/4 hybrid who at his best is in the screen game either popping a three, driving a close out of rolling so Melo can deliver the perfect Alley. In order for that to work we need spacing and Miller will definitely provide that. Miles is an okay 3 point shooter, but ideally you want to play 3 shooters just as good or better than him as he has been 33% 3/4 years thus far. Miller has shown he can function as a pick and roll handler in college so we would be able to incorporate some big on big pick and rolls between the two.

Defensively Miles and Miller could take turns guarding the opponents depending on matchup, Miller would give us length we can put on the taller wings while Miles would be he better option for the stronger more physical forwards. Both are good rebounders as Miles led the team with 7 boards per game 2 yrs ago, Miller was over 8 at Bama as their leading rebounder and then add Mark to the mix and we should clean the boards up.

It also wouldn't be unfeasible to play Miller-Miles and Pj all at the same time for stretches whether that is PJ at small ball 5 (something we didn't do this year with our lack of healthy forwards) or sliding Miller to the 2 and going super big.

Ball-Miller-Miles-PJ-Mark is a crazy big lineup that could make the floor feel very small for defenses.

[cornchip]

I don't know if it's just the association with the Hornets, but does anyone else get Glen Rice vibes with Miller?

Shot is way different and Miller has the potential to do more but both just have that shooting/scoring smoothness for that size that's pretty unique.

Iirc by the time Rice got here, most of his athleticism had been zapped and he was more pure skill and craftiness. Either way, I LOVED watching him play and he may have been the 2nd best Hornet ever behind peak Zo.

That's why I'm less concerned about Miller as an athlete because even though you probably need more lateral quickness today, it's a far less vertical and physical game then in Rice's peak.

[dmutombo321]

I don't know if it's just the association with the Hornets, but does anyone else get Glen Rice vibes with Miller?

Shot is way different and Miller has the potential to do more but both just have that shooting/scoring smoothness for that size that's pretty unique.

I think Rice's elevation and ridiculously high release point is part of what made him so great. Would shoot right over helpless defenders. Additionally, he was a physical 230lbs. [He's also rumored to have famously banged out a young Sarah Palin, another career achievement...]

Miller's slight build and ISO ability are what concern me. Paul George, to whom he is often compared looks to have 25lbs on him. The hope is Miller can bridge that divide in the weight room. As for his ISO ability, he showed occasional flashes but most of his offense was overwhelmingly spot up shots or 1-2 dribble jumpers. When he did beat his man, he would usually finish with a scoop shot at the rim to avoid contact. Again, some of this may be remedied in time as his body fills out but it's a limitation now. I've zero concern about the accuracy of his shooting... Sniper. If he can overcome the first two hurdles mentioned and continue to expand his game, Paul George may someday be attainable. If not, someone could end up burning their pick on a 2023 level Jalen McDaniel who has similar length/height/slight of frame measurables and skillset; he's become a deadly spot up shooter and has a high bbiq but he's still physically limited in creating his own shot and thus relegated to valued role player status...

Sent from my motorola edge (2021) using RealGM mobile app

[JMAC3]

Watch on YouTube

Miller putting 24 pts up on 15 shots vs Arkansas nba ladden roster. Tough buckets on Black, Walsh, Council, Nick Smith Jr.

Getting all the way to hoop on these guys too. Including a nasty cross on Black and a hezi on Walsh.

[LofJ]

That was a great game from Miller. Arkansas had the most physical, athletic defense in college basketball last year and he was taking it to the hoop against them. He wasn't hitting his 3's so he smartly attacked the basket instead. He put the ball on the floor in traffic a few times when he shouldn't have and got stripped, but that's correctable. He has a solid handle to work with though, that criticism of him is overblown.

[SWedd523]

I don't see much difference in their frame or build, personally

[JMAC3]

Watch on YouTube

;t=196s

The more I watch him the more I don't understand the handle concerns. He is playing with the ball in his hands on the perimeter majority of the game. Alabama puts the ball in his hands off pick and rolls over and over again and he shows he can shoot off the dribble, get into the paint, pass the ball... He isn't just a stand around type of guy at all.... he creates a ton of his own offense.

He plays more like a 2 guard then a 4. So anyone trying to compare him to Jabari Smith is lost.

[KingCat]

I'm warming up on him a bit. I think he is very comparable to Franz Wagner and seeing the success Wagner has had already makes me more confident Miller won't bust.

Just hope he can continue to up his finesse play as his raw athleticism won't get him far in the NBA.

[JMAC3]

Watch on YouTube

He isn't going to be eastbaying on fastbreaks or winning a dunk contest, but he doesn't seem to be a bad athlete.

Especially as he gains 10-20 lbs of muscle, his functional athleticism will improve.

[JMAC3]

That dunk on 2 guys from SC was nasty.

[dmutombo321]

I'd watched that SC game but somehow must've missed that authoritative dunk he threw down in traffic. Impressive..

Sent from my motorola edge (2021) using RealGM mobile app

[LofJ]

Miller is a really skilled offensive player. He can shoot, he has a lot of moves to create space to get his jumper off, he can get to the rim off the dribble, he's a good decision maker, and he's a fantastic off ball mover. He's not afraid of contact either, so he's a plus rebounder. I'm always wary of bigger players that can't rebound, that's not an issue with Miller.

I still want Scoot, but we are getting a really, really good player if we take Miller. We got lucky to land at 2 and decide between the two. I'm glad we aren't in the position of the Rockets or Pistons.

[fatlever]

Here's my devil's Advocate argument for Miller over scoot. It's no secret that I absolutely love dsj and what he brings to this roster. I love his leadership, strength, toughness tenacity ability to get to the rim and collapse the defense ability to finish in traffic and most importantly is ability to defend the point of attack. Ideally, scoot would be a better version of dsj with the hope of one day having a legitimate three-point shot, which I think we know is never going to happen for dsj at this point.

Assuming we could resign a dsj to a long-term deal to be our backup point guard, he could give us 75% of what scoot would bring to the table. That might be enough to comfortably have me content with our back court situation ( even more if Cody can return to full health).

Then Miller makes more sense to me.

Again, we're talking about drafting for fit rather than bpa. If the goal is to drive to BPA then I take scoot, figure out the rest later.

For example, I would rather have dsj and Miller than an alternative of scoot and oubre.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[JMAC3]

Here's my devil's Advocate argument for Miller over scoot. It's no secret that I absolutely love dsj and what he brings to this roster. I love his leadership, strength, toughness tenacity ability to get to the rim and collapse the defense ability to finish in traffic and most importantly is ability to defend the point of attack. Ideally, scoot would be a better version of dsj with the hope of one day having a legitimate three-point shot, which I think we know is never going to happen for dsj at this point.

Assuming we could resign a dsj to a long-term deal to be our backup point guard, he could give us 75% of what scoot would bring to the table. That might be enough to comfortably have me content with our back court situation ( even more if Cody can return to full health).

Then Miller makes more sense to me.

Again, we're talking about drafting for fit rather than bpa. If the goal is to drive to BPA then I take scoot, figure out the rest later.

For example, I would rather have dsj and Miller than an alternative of scoot and oubre.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

I can think of 100 reasons to draft Miller and very few have to do with DSJ.

DSJ if resigned will probably be a short term deal. Most backup pgs arent signing 3/4 year deals.
DSJ role will be even more reduced with Martin back, Melo presumably more healthy than 35 games and then add Scoot to that?
DSJ played 25 mpg with a ton of opportunity to play with injuries, trying to find him mins if we draft Scoot is going to be impossible.

Miller just in general will be a guy that is easy to build lineups around. He can play the 2-4, good shooter, can score, should be an okay defender from the start, who are you not able to play him with? If you need to put 3 defenders in the game Miller versatility to slot in multiple spots seems like a huge selling point to me.

LaMelo-DSJ-Martin-Miller-Mark is a pretty crazy defensive lineup if we need stops to close games.

[SWedd523]

Here's my devil's Advocate argument for Miller over scoot. It's no secret that I absolutely love dsj and what he brings to this roster. I love his leadership, strength, toughness tenacity ability to get to the rim and collapse the defense ability to finish in traffic and most importantly is ability to defend the point of attack. Ideally, scoot would be a better version of dsj with the hope of one day having a legitimate three-point shot, which I think we know is never going to happen for dsj at this point.

Assuming we could resign a dsj to a long-term deal to be our backup point guard, he could give us 75% of what scoot would bring to the table. That might be enough to comfortably have me content with our back court situation ( even more if Cody can return to full health).

Then Miller makes more sense to me.

Again, we're talking about drafting for fit rather than bpa. If the goal is to drive to BPA then I take scoot, figure out the rest later.

For example, I would rather have dsj and Miller than an alternative of scoot and oubre.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

My question is how much better of a prospect is Scoot, if at all?

Personally I view him slightly higher in a vacuum over Miller. Like 87 to 85 grade. Well within the realm of taking "fit vs BPA" into account.

I still have very real questions about his lack of elite twitch/athleticism holding him back from stardom.

Shooting CAN be developed. Athleticism can't.

two PG lineups are almost never successful. Scoring wings are almost always important to winning teams.

It truly is a tough call

[fatlever]

Well my big concern with Miller less with him as a player and more about the fit on the roster. I think we have a few major needs on this team, shooting, point of attack defense, leadership, toughness, dribble penetration and play making. To me, scoot addresses more of those needs than Miller does.

My fear is a lineup with lamelo and then a combination of Miller miles PJ Hayward Mark Etc puts a massive burden on lamelo to create offense. That lineup desperately needs another player who can get past his man on the regular into the paint to collapse defenses, another player to initiate pick and roll offense and to allow melo to play off the ball occasionally. We also need someone to defend the point of attack and it can't be lamelo. So who takes on that burden?

Now, if miles or Miller can take some of that play making burden off of lamelo, that would be great. I would love to see miles take the next step as a player with the ball in his hand creating for others. He shown some of that in the past. If he could become a dude that gets you five assists tonight that would be a huge creation burden lifted off of lamelo. And from what I'm reading Miller appears to have the necessary tools and basketball IQ to also be a wing that could eventually be a five assists tonight type of player.

Ideally I would still play lamelo and dsj together a lot of minutes if we drafted Miller. I think that pairing worked really well last year. With the added offense of Miller I think we could look to move Terry to address a different need or for future pics or salary relief. I guess either way no matter who we draft I'm looking to move Terry in the off-season.

Most people have them in the same tier, and if that's the case and the Hornets have both players in the same tier than it really just comes down to which player fits best with the roster. And they are logical arguments for both.

Bottom line, right now I value scoots dribble penetration, leadership, point of attack defense, and shot creation more than I value Miller's offense and three-point shooting, size and defensive versatility. Both feel a huge need for this team, so I think we win either way.

I'm still like 60/40 scoot/Miller. Amen is out for me.





Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[SWedd523]

I view drafting Miller as moving on from one or both of PJ/Miles much the same way I view Scoot as moving on from Terry.