Lockout/Negotiations Thread

[Bassman]

While I realize this thread is probably akin to delving into details of one's colonoscopy, the lockout and negotiations on a new CBA will impact if we even have a season. After the talks moved the ball a little bit into middle ground, then collapsed, the report being floated today says the owners will take that off the table if the lockout begins, insisting on a hard cap of $45M, elimination of guaranteed contracts and an overall salary reduction of 33% (yes, this is the nuclear option).

By all accounts, the owners are more than willing to let the season die in order to get the league into an acceptable order.

I wonder how long the players would be willing to go without pay, particularly the guys making decent money but not enough to have stashed away a ton and maintain their lifestyle for the next year?

[Walt Cronkite]

Thanks for making this thread, should make it much easier for me to stay in the loop on these deets. Definitely remember stories from the last lockout about how many (most?) of the players in the league had no contingency plan and quickly found themselves strapped for cash because they were basically living paycheck to paycheck.

Should be interesting...

[countryboi]

on the bright side the NFL CBA could be signed as soon as friday.... sounds like we are trading one lockout for another

[fatlever]

thanks bass. earlier today while on my way to work i was actually thinking about bumping the old thread we had going. but i got sidetracked once i got to work. as long as we have a dedicated thread for all things lockout, then we are good. its gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONG boring summer folks.

[ohara]

Owners wanting a $45 mil hard cap. Going to be interesting to see what they get.

[captaincrunk]

thanks bass. earlier today while on my way to work i was actually thinking about bumping the old thread we had going. but i got sidetracked once i got to work. as long as we have a dedicated thread for all things lockout, then we are good. its gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONG boring summer folks.

Instead of Christmas in July we'll be having our July around Christmas

[Paydro70]

A $45m hard cap is crazy, if that's the owners' line we're not having a basketball season this year. Consider that the soft cap hasn't been at $45m since 04-05, and obviously most teams spent more than that. We're really looking back about a decade in player salaries, there's no way that gets agreed to.

[ohara]

They wont get a $45 mil hard cap, but they will get it in the low $50's I bet. They say they are taking the flex cap off the table come 7/1, so it will be interesting. Negotiations when you get into this amount of money is always contentious.

[countryboi]

i think the owners are just trying to low ball the players in to signing..... honestly i think the players should take the current deal cause if whats going on in the NFL is any clue....the courts are NOT on their side

[BigSlam]

Owners wanting a $45 mil hard cap. Going to be interesting to see what they get.

That's just a ploy by the owners though - right? It's a scare tactic. They are telling the players that if they don't agree to what the owners have on the table now (which does not include the $45 mil hard cap) then the owners will dig their heels in and go back to demanding the lower hard cap.

It'll come down to the players calling the owners bluff.

[fatlever]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnatio ... s-players/

more on that hard cap

According to NBA executives familiar with the league’s strategies, once the lockout is in place, the owners will push for a hard salary cap of $45 million, the elimination of guaranteed contracts and ask that the players swallow a 33 percent salary cut.

[Kembastockton]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/06/29/mike-monroe-it-only-gets-harder-for-owners-players/

more on that hard cap

According to NBA executives familiar with the league’s strategies, once the lockout is in place, the owners will push for a hard salary cap of $45 million, the elimination of guaranteed contracts and ask that the players swallow a 33 percent salary cut.

Ouch! It really is going to be a long boring summer! With those type numbers there is no telling when this thing will be settled. I imagine the owners must have agreed to scrap this upcoming season to save money, and back the players into a corner.

[doc.end]

Actually that would be great for parity in the league. Don't forget league-owned Hornets kind of need to keep CP3 to survive. There is interesting thread on general board about Barkley blaming LeBron and Bosh for what they did as it made things much worse. i kind of agree that nobody wants somethign like that again (well unless you are the lucky team maybe). Players have to much power over results.

[ohara]

i think the owners are just trying to low ball the players in to signing..... honestly i think the players should take the current deal cause if whats going on in the NFL is any clue....the courts are NOT on their side

I think the lower courts are on the side of the Unions. But the Appeals Courts, they are more on the side of the owners and big business. At least that is what seems to be happening with the NFL situation. I dont think the Union really wants to go to the Courts because they may win at one level only to lose at the next.

[Kembastockton]

I hope these guys can put their egos to the side and realize that the nba could be in real trouble if they don't agree to take a step back to move forward.

[captaincrunk]

I hope these guys can put their egos to the side and realize that the nba could be in real trouble if they don't agree to take a step back to move forward.

People think that the players need to take massive cuts to keep the very wealthy owners afloat? What is this, America?

[doc.end]

I hope these guys can put their egos to the side and realize that the nba could be in real trouble if they don't agree to take a step back to move forward.

I tried to imagine LeBron putting his ego to the side.... my head almost exploded.

[Jaruff]

There are several ways this could be solved.

Remove the salary cap
This would allow teams to adjust their salary based on revenue (like in baseball). The only problem is that teams with the deepest pockets will have the ability to spend the most money, screwing the other teams. You could introduce a revenue sharing program like baseball has where the teams that spend the most distribute a certain amount to the smaller teams.

Another possibility would be incentive based salaries. Everyone could have a low base salary (500k-1m) and bonuses could be added for different achievements. This would prevent someone like Diop from being paid $7m but would also reward someone like Kwame on a veterans min.

I could go on but when everything is said and done, I expect a soft cap of $50-60m and an option for teams to go over that amount freely (no limitations on teams over the cap signing new players but the luxury tax would still be in effect). I also expect an end to most guaranteed salaries. Like the last CBA, I think we'll see a clause where each team may void the contract of one player.

[Paydro70]

i think the owners are just trying to low ball the players in to signing..... honestly i think the players should take the current deal cause if whats going on in the NFL is any clue....the courts are NOT on their side

I think the lower courts are on the side of the Unions. But the Appeals Courts, they are more on the side of the owners and big business. At least that is what seems to be happening with the NFL situation. I dont think the Union really wants to go to the Courts because they may win at one level only to lose at the next.

We don't know yet. Nelson supported the players, then both parties made their appeals to the 8th circuit, which hasn't issued its ruling yet. The 8th is a conservative panel, but that doesn't mean they ALWAYS side with management, and there's never any telling what might happen if it gets to the Supreme Court.

This talk about the players blinking is, to me, a little premature. They're not as rich as the owners, of course, but the owners are looking at a HUGE amount of lost revenue if they don't play at all. Based on the Forbes numbers, only a couple of teams really would save much money by not playing the games (i.e., the Magic). It depends on how much overhead runs, but it could be as little as $5m in savings even for the Magic... meanwhile, a team in the middle like the 76ers could stand to lose tens of millions (last year they had operating expenses of $111m... but only $70m in salaries), depending on how much they can cut their overhead or book up their stadium with things other than NBA games. Losing only the $1.2m they did last year sure sounds better. (Dolan, of course, looks to lose $64m in profits plus whatever he can't book MSG for on those 41 evenings... does he really care what happens to Jordan, for instance?

I think if the owners get a concession out of players that turns most teams profitable (even $100m would do that) it's going to be tough for them to keep solidarity in pushing the players' salaries down.

Frankly, all the business about a hard cap or guaranteed contracts is window dressing... what matters is the money.

[Eoghan]

I'm kind of on the side of the owners, I think a hard cap is necessary for small market teams like ourselves to really compete for a chip with the big dogs like LA, NY, etc.

Might cause a bigger precedence for tanking though to build through the draft, if everyone starts doing that the NBA might have to input a relegation system like soccer, lol.