Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[Liver_Pooty]

Trading for Taj also blocks Vonleh for 3 seasons (well it probably does) and he has potential to be a lot better than any PF on the roster right now and Taj, so the possibility of giving up future assets (Zeller, 1st round pick and probably more stuff) and blocking our potential stud for 3 seasons isn't worth it to be a little better now imo.

I honestly am hating the Vonleh pick more and more. He just doesn't do it for me. I wanted a ready now player like McDermott. Oh well, we will see how it goes.

[SWedd523]

Things could definitely go south if Al isn't fully healthy and Kemba plays like he did for the last 2 months of the season.

This is exactly the scenario we ran into last season, yet we ended up having in your words, "the best season in our franchise history". We didn't have a third string C last year or a (real) starting caliber PF either, so I find it a bit strange to assume a similar injury situation could lead to a worse outcome. Especially after adding Lance and Marvin (who should easily combine to cover the loss of McRoberts) and expected improvement by all of the young guys.

I (kind of) get the point you're making, but you're going about it the wrong way

I couldn't care if you like the point or if you think it's the right or wrong way.

This is my opinion and that is yours.

Point about our best season ever is that the 7 seed is not the summit, trading assets to build around Kemba and Al is admitting defeat from the start imo.

We don't have to go all in at this point imo.

I wasn't aware that this stopped being a forum that encouraged the discussion of differing opinions

[Elden Payton]

This is exactly the scenario we ran into last season, yet we ended up having in your words, "the best season in our franchise history". We didn't have a third string C last year or a (real) starting caliber PF either, so I find it a bit strange to assume a similar injury situation could lead to a worse outcome. Especially after adding Lance and Marvin (who should easily combine to cover the loss of McRoberts) and expected improvement by all of the young guys.

I (kind of) get the point you're making, but you're going about it the wrong way

I couldn't care if you like the point or if you think it's the right or wrong way.

This is my opinion and that is yours.

Point about our best season ever is that the 7 seed is not the summit, trading assets to build around Kemba and Al is admitting defeat from the start imo.

We don't have to go all in at this point imo.

I wasn't aware that this stopped being a forum that encouraged the discussion of differing opinions

Exactly!

Which is why I'm allowed mine.

[Liver_Pooty]

If Jefferson has a major injury were screwed. Period.

[Bravenewworld]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

If anyone thinks that Zeller can't be a 9/6 player then there is little hope imo.

I dont think anyone has questioned if he can or cannot do this. That's not what the trade off would be about. The trade off would be to gain something Zeller will most likely never have (good defense), something that will take him 4 or 5 years to gain (quality experience) and something he may or may not continue to gain (play off experience).

Obviously Taj is a good defender but there is this guy called Thibs...

He is a good man to man defender who can run the floor. Defensive schematics have nothing to do with the quality of a players man to man defense.
Help defense and knowing who to put on who, is all about coaching.

People thinking that we should mortgage our future for a chance at a 5 seed when we already have a chance at said seed, is foolishness in my eyes, people being keen on the treadmill scares me.

Again, are you really banking the teams future on Zeller and a 20+ pick?
Is that really what you would be banking on?
Not the young trio of defensive guards you have. Not the entering prime PF in Taj that you could trade for or the in prime center?
Stacking this talent is only going to be worth anything if the team is willing to go all the way and start contending. Being concerned about a late first and at best a back up big who plays no defense, over the possibility of getting a top 3 PF in the east, does not show a lot of promise or a lot of willingness to actually move forward and contend.
Theres like... 5 players in the league that defensively bother Lebron and you guys now have 2 of them. Ya gotta take full advantage of this situation and not be concerned with Zeller.You might as well add a guy who has a history of bothering Love and Hibbert as well.

[Liver_Pooty]

I wouldn't trade Zeller for Gibson straight up with his contract.

There, I said it.

I also wouldn't trade Biyombo, or any of our young assets for him, let alone a pick. Hes in his late 20s with a rather large contract and hes obviously overrated.

Pass.

[Elden Payton]

I wouldn't trade Zeller for Gibson straight up with his contract.

There, I said it.

I also wouldn't trade Biyombo, or any of our young assets for him, let alone a pick. Hes in his late 20s with a rather large contract and hes obviously overrated.

Pass.

How dare ye!

[SWedd523]

Exactly!

Which is why I'm allowed mine.

Yet you get all defensive when I state mine. Oh tay

[catch20two]

The Bulls aren't trading Taj unless he holds out or stink it up at the start of the season. They don't want Zeller's uncertainty or the draft pick because winning teams don't care about potential unless it doesn't cost them much in exchange or it fall into their lap.

We should've made a move for Andray Blatche if you ask me but that ain't none of my business.

[Eoghan]

Vonleh looks to be about 2 years away from contributing to me and Taj's contract won't look bad at all once this new tv deal is in place.

[MasterIchiro]

Taj is only worth Marv + Hairston. But I would only feel comfortable dealing away outside shooting if they add someone like Afflalo as well. We'd have a beastly playoff rotation.

[Elden Payton]

Exactly!

Which is why I'm allowed mine.

Yet you get all defensive when I state mine. Oh tay

You quoted me, and told me I'm going about my own opinion the wrong way...obnoxious post.

What I said is not hard to understand and I'm not the only one who believes that Gibson is not worth that package.

We were a seventh seed last season, we're not magically turning into a contender, by trading future assets for Taj freaking Gibson, which is why in my opinion, it is ridiculous to give up prospects and a first for him.

I'm entitled to it.

You are entitled to yours.

[Elden Payton]

Taj is only worth Marv + Hairston. But I would only feel comfortable dealing away outside shooting if they add someone like Afflalo as well. We'd have a beastly playoff rotation.

It makes sense to offer this package in December imo.

[SWedd523]

You quoted me, and told me I'm going about my own opinion the wrong way...obnoxious post.

What I said is not hard to understand and I'm not the only one who believes that Gibson is not worth that package.

We were a seventh seed last season, we're not magically turning into a contender, by trading future assets for Taj freaking Gibson, which is why in my opinion, it is ridiculous to give up prospects and a first for him.

I never said anything about your thoughts on any potential trade. I remarked on your supposed belief that we're a rolled ankle from mediocrity.

I supported that by giving you pretty clear evidence to the opposite, considering we faced that and more last season (when we had less talent) yet still had our best season ever (according to you). Yet I'm the obnoxious one? More like you're overly defensive of somebody disagreeing with you.

Again though, that's just my opinion...

[Elden Payton]

You quoted me, and told me I'm going about my own opinion the wrong way...obnoxious post.

What I said is not hard to understand and I'm not the only one who believes that Gibson is not worth that package.

We were a seventh seed last season, we're not magically turning into a contender, by trading future assets for Taj freaking Gibson, which is why in my opinion, it is ridiculous to give up prospects and a first for him.

I never said anything about your thoughts on any potential trade. I remarked on your supposed belief that we're a rolled ankle from mediocrity.

I supported that by giving you pretty clear evidence to the opposite, considering we faced that and more last season (when we had less talent) yet still had our best season ever (according to you). Yet I'm the obnoxious one? More like you're overly defensive of somebody disagreeing with you.

Again though, that's just my opinion...

I'm not being overly defensive, I told you that you're entitled to your opinion but I don't (have to) care about it!

You gave your own opinion as evidence...that is not evidence...that is your opinion.

You said it happened last year, yes for us a seventh seed is great but it is the definition of average.

If Al or Kemba miss major time this year, we will quite possibly be mediocre.

Improvement isn't a given and lots of teams have learnt this the hard way, especially after trading assets ala Detroit.

I'm just trying to be realistic.

[HornetJail]

We'd be lucky to even be mediocre if either one of them missed major time. Who do you guys propose would step in to replace Al's interior scoring if he missed time like he did at the beginning of last season? Zeller? Marvin Williams? Bismack?

At the very least, Gibson would give us 13-15ppg if we had to turn to him for some scoring inside and he'd keep us on the right track. Remember, we were way below .500 before Al got truly healthy last season, and we finished something like 30-15 with him actually healthy. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but we were around 13-24 in early January before Al really got healthy. After doing nothing to help our frontcourt offensively this summer, we will have similar issues if we have to play without Big Al this season. Even having a mid-tier offensive talent like Gibson would go a long way, because our next best offensive big this year is probably Zeller.

[TheKingofSting]

Trading for Taj also blocks Vonleh for 3 seasons (well it probably does) and he has potential to be a lot better than any PF on the roster right now and Taj, so the possibility of giving up future assets (Zeller, 1st round pick and probably more stuff) and blocking our potential stud for 3 seasons isn't worth it to be a little better now imo.

Vonleh isn't anywhere near ready.

[Bravenewworld]

So, im all for being a fan and having a fan bias, that's okay.
But one thing im seeing here is this extreme over-valuing of Hornets players and extreme under-valuing of other teams players.
When i suggest that Zeller and next year's first would be a steal for Taj, that's solely from a Hornets perspective. As the Bulls, i wouldn't touch that trade with a 50 foot pole.

If we really want to get into a serious trade talk where both teams could reasonably be accepting of the trade, IMO, it would be one of the following:


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6511903

Hornets Get: Arthur
Nuggets Get: Zeller

Nuggets would do this to delay signing an extension for their back up PF/C, since they have to deal with so many other country next season and the year after.

Hornets would do this because it gives them a back up PF/C, who has shown he can produce starting quality stats when given the minutes and of the 5 years experience he has, 4 have been spent going deep into the western conference play-offs. High IQ, B to B+ defense, active w/o ball, athletic and proven.

______________

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6511908

Hornets Get: Thad, Brewer
TWolves Get: Zeller, Henderson
What else? I feel as if a draft pick swap option should be added to the trade.

Hornets shore up a guy in Thad who is really a 3 but has played the 4 his entire career and is pretty good at it. Another guy with a lot of exp. to add to the team come PO time. Solid defender, B- to B, can run the floor, seems to be able to adjust nicely, etc.
Brewer is Brewer. A great second and third string 2, 3 and even 4 for short periods of time or playing perm. ball.

TWolves land Henderson, who would work very nicely with Wiggins and would have a guard trio that could completely dominate in the rebound category. Zeller would be a bit of a risk for them.
But the TWolves are.... six months? A year? Away from ditching everyone but four or five players and starting over anyway. Contracts are an issue, they probably wont resign Thad and Brewer anyway. So if they could combine that for one guy in Henderson, then im betting it would be worth it for them.

______________

Hornets Get: Johnson
Raptors Get: Zeller

Simple swap. Hornets get a low post high defense PF. Raptors get another white 7 footer that plays no D.

______________

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6511917

Hornets Get: Hill, Boozer
Lakers Get: Henderson, Vonleh

Lakers accept this because they didnt want to keep Hill in the first place and they have no intention of contending with Boozer or this current team. The bad Buss has flat out said it.So they definitely get more than their value in this trade.

Obviously i can hear what is going to come next. "But Boozer sucks!!". Yah, look. Statistically he is not the best PF in the league, probably not even top 10. But fact of the matter is this guy has a decade of western conference play off exp. He knows how to win and is very efficient and effective at it. And we just watched this dude pretty much will his Bulls team to the play-offs for the past two seasons. Despite his lack of defense (which is a pet peeve of mine) he is still a C+/B-'er and definitely makes up for it in every other category.

Hill always seems to get this bum rap. He reminds me a lot of Dally in Dallys first few years. That being said he is a natural PF who is still learning the game, can post up, and defend... ehh... fairly well (but improving) and IMO would go very well next to Big Al.

______________



Lastly i was just dicking around with the TM and some how ended up with this and im not to sure what to think of it. In a way i really like it, in a way i question one person's health and in a way i really dont like it. Its kinda all over the place for me..... okay..... dont hate me for this one....

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6511910

Hornets Get: Rondo, Bradley, Green, 2018 first rights to swap. if not taken 2019 2nd owed to Hornets.
Celtics Get: Williams, Zeller, Walker, Vonleh, 3.2M exemption cash, 2015 first top 8 protected

Heh.

Rondo, Lance and MKG could possibly be the most defensive guard trio the league would see. They also seem to have very similar personalities and handle competition in the same way.
With Henderson and Bradley as the back up 1/2 and 2/3, basically two 6th men, this team would be able to handle any guard situation and could exploit many teams.
Obviously we would know what Green would do at the PF position, and would simply be some positive production, leadership and exp.

The Celtics in all honesty, i think they would consider this trade. We know they dont plan on keeping Green for the long haul. We know Rondo is on his way out and while they do like Avery Bradley, its hard for anyone to look at him as anything more than a 6th man.
Worse case they get Walker, a guy who can be a full time and real starting PG for them to build around. And Zeller would go well with all the other white big men they have.

I always have problems valuing two players.
Rondo and Rose. Until both of these guys are healthy for a full season (or at least 65+ games) their value is very subjective. In this trade, i valued Rondo at.. ehhh.... mid of what he could potentially be (60-70% of 2010/11 Rondo lets say) .



Anyway the TL:DR version = Zeller's gotta go.
=)

I actually lost my mind about half way into that post.

[TheKingofSting]

No way the Raptors give up Johnson for Zeller, he's an advanced stat all star.

[Braggins]

I would give up Zeller but not a first. What do you think is the absolute least we could add to Zeller to get Taj by the trade deadline? What about Zeller, Neal, and a 2nd round pick for Taj and filler? If they were wiling to throw in Dunleavy or Hinrich that would be really good but it would probably be E'Twaun Moore or worse if they would even consider that package.

The first is of no consequence.
If they got Taj, there is a good chance they would be a 20+ team, but makes all the difference in the trade.

Question, why do you overvalue Zeller this way? You're already getting Taj, who would give you a contending material 4. For a guy who at best will probably be a 7th or 8th man and a late first.
Lets not let fandom get in the way of rational values. Zeller and a mid to late first, is definitely not valued at more then Taj.

I certainly dont overvalue Zeller and Im not sure where you are getting that. I said I would give up Zeller. I think he basically sucks. It is the first round pick that I dont want to give up.