30 Point Threshold - Noah Vonleh Thread

Bassman · Post #1 » by **Bassman** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 7:59 pm

I want to find a way to draft Noah V. Nobody is dealing away 1 thru 4 without a ransom package. Most mocks have Utah picking him 5th. What deal would make sense to both teams to get us the 5th pick?

Things can change over the weeks of workouts, but I think Noah is the PF we really want. The guy needs to become more assertive and confident, but his skills are off the chart. Fine shooter out to 3 point range (college anyway), great athlete, runs the floor well, rebounds and blocks shots. He is what we wish Cody could be but never will.

I would trade Zeller straight up for 5 but we know that won't happen. I'd then try Cody and #24 for 5. My dilemma is what next if that is rejected? Trade 24 and 9 to move up to.5, keeping Zeller? Offer Zeller and a future 1st for 5?

Your thoughts on Noah Vonleh and how to get him...

amcoolio · Post #2 » by **amcoolio** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:08 pm

I don't think his talent is worth trading two picks for. If we traded Zeller straight up for 5 I'd take Randle every time. Who's to say Randle can't hit those same shots? Plus hes a better rebounder, has an NBA body and would bully the Vonleh's of the world.

ARHornet · Post #3 » by **ARHornet** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:09 pm

I doubt we could get 5 without giving up Kemba or 9 or practically the rest of our roster combined. Zeller and 24 would be lucky to get us a mid teen pick, much less 5. 9 and 24 might do it depending on how they feel about the depth at PG after Vonleh.

Personally, I don't feel confident enough in Vonleh ever developing past an energy big to give up too much for him. But if we could somehow trade Zeller and land him, plus still get a top level wing shooter (Stauskas, McDermott, Young, Harris, or LaVine) then I'd be for it.

Post #4 » by **JDR720** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:14 pm

amcoolio wrote:I don't think his talent is worth trading two picks for. If we traded Zeller straight up for 5 I'd take Randle every time. Who's to say Randle can't hit those same shots? Plus hes a better rebounder, has an NBA body and would bully the Vonleh's of the world.

well Vonleh was statistically the #1 rebounder in college this year and he also has an NBA body

Bassman · Post #5 » by **Bassman** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:16 pm

I believe Noah fits today's game well. He is very young; he could learn the 5 from Al and possibly migrate there with more weight and age. I think his offensive game lifts him over Randle. There is a reason he is rated ahead of him.

Bassman · Post #6 » by **Bassman** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm

[quote][/Michael Visenberg 5/13/14 as quoted on NBA DraftNet

Strengths: High upside. Possesses NBA All Star potential ... Combo forward in the mold of a Jamal Mashburn who shows the ability to face the basket as well as play in the post ... Huge 7'3 wingspan gives him the ability to play bigger and more athletic ... Solid kid with strong work ethic ... Good touch on his shot ... Developing some quality offensive moves ... Very good handle for a forward ... Strong frame with short, thick legs giving him excellent balance and low center of gravity ... Should fill out to 240-250 lbs and be able to muscle opponents after his body fills out ... Just a junior in high school and already has excellent body strength ... High character individual. Extremely coachable ...

Weaknesses: Becoming a star is just a matter of confidence and believing in himself ... A very nice kid. Needs to learn to develop a little more swagger on the court ... Can learn to become a more vocal leader ... Not the most explosive leaper ... Not a natural fit at either forward position but has the length and versatility to ultimately play either position ...

Notes: Proved to be extremely clutch, knocking down a game winning 3 pointer to win the adidas Nations event in August (2012) ... NBA scouts that were in attendance (at adidas Nations) were very impressed with him ... Measured 6'7 (in shoes) 190 lbs, with a 7'3 wingspan at the 2011 LeBron James Skills Academy. Re-classified from the HS Class of 2013 to the HS Class of 2014 ... Measured 6'9 (in shoes) 222 lbs, with a 7'3 wingspan at the 2012 LeBron James Skills Academy ... Measured 6'9.75 (in shoes) 242 lbs, with a 7'4 wingspan and 8'10 reach at the 2013 Nike Hoop Summit ... Measured 6'9 (with shoes) 236 lbs with a 7'3 wingspan at the 2013 Nike Big Man Skills Academy]

BeesWax · Post #7 » by **BeesWax** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:28 pm

amcoolio wrote:I don't think his talent is worth trading two picks for. If we traded Zeller straight up for 5 I'd take Randle every time. Who's to say Randle can't hit those same shots? Plus hes a better rebounder, has an NBA body and would bully the Vonleh's of the world.

I don't know that I would take Randle at 9 much less trade up to 5 for him. Now Vonleh I would trade up for if it could be done affordably. Vonleh is the better shooter now and better rebounder. He also has more defensive potential as a shot blocker. His game is just more ready to be a NBA PF while Randle plays like an undersized Center right now.

Randle may become a decent NBA player but Vonleh has to size and ability to become a very good to great NBA player.

ARHornet · Post #8 » by **ARHornet** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:33 pm

Vonleh has a lot of potential, no doubting that. He's a great rebounder already. But he's really raw. His feel for the game is really poor. He's shown the ability to make threes, but he's not been consistent. His technique in the post is awful. So is his team defense. I just don't know that he'll ever develop enough to be worth trading multiple assets for.

Post #9 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 9:30 pm

I would be very happy if we came out of the draft with Vonleh.

Bassman · Post #10 » by **Bassman** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:09 pm

Walt Cronkite wrote:I would be very happy if we came out of the draft with Vonleh.

If we found a way to get to pick 5, we'd have our choice of Randle or Vonleh. I lean toward Noah, as I do not want another prospect that hasn't demonstrated a quality shot in game competition (versus workouts). Getting to 5 is attainable, and Noah demonstrates a level of PF/C potential every bit as high as the top 3 in their respective positions. He is very young and has growing to do. With a great lower body foundation, he should improve his hops and overall strength. Blended with his skill set, he could be all-star quality. As much as I like some of our options at 9, I see none of them demonstrating that level of value.

Bassman · Post #11 » by **Bassman** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 12:05 pm

Come on guys, take another look at his guy and really think about it. Noah is the real deal. The kid can really shoot (unlike Cody), rebounds like a stud, has the length to block shots and athleticism to get up and down.

Think the jump from 9 to 5 is too tough? Come on...I'm sure we can get it done with Utah. You know they'd love to add McBuckets there...

SO WHOSE WITH ME???

LET'S GO!!! YEAHHHHhhhhh........

Snidely FC · Post #12 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 1:11 pm

I agree, Bassman. Vonleh, what's not to like? Derrick Favor's body with Greg Smith's hands and Isaiah Austin's wingspan? Only 18 years old? 50% 3pt shooter? And for Vonleh, its hard for me to imagine him going to a better situation than CHA where he can learn footwork from Al Jeff & Ewing.

Problem I see is the recent history of CHA MGMT shows that when they think they are set at a certain position, they won't draft there. While I agree Vonleh is a better version of Zeller, I'm afraid that unless they trade Zeller, his skillset is too similar to what they hope Zeller can do for them to go for Vonleh, especially if they have to move up to get him.

That being said, if Randle & Gordon go top 7, then Vonleh falls to SAC at 8. SAC is pretty loaded at PF, maybe they'd switch with us for nothing too onerous, like Jeffrey Taylor + 9 for 8?

LofJ · Post #13 » by **LofJ** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 1:28 pm

I think we'd either have to trade up with the Jazz or Celtics to get Vonleh. Outside of MKG (Jazz) or Biyombo (Celtics) I don't see any other player on our roster that they'd be interested in. Obviously if we drafted Vonleh we'd like to move Zeller, but I don't think either would be interested. Our best offer would be the #9, Haywood's contract, and an unprotected future first. I doubt they'd want the 24th pick. I wouldn't give up Biyombo or MKG to move up for Vonleh, that's too much of an overpay with Zeller still on the roster.

Bassman · Post #14 » by **Bassman** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 3:43 pm

Snidely FC wrote:I agree, Bassman. Vonleh, what's not to like? Derrick Favor's body with Greg Smith's hands and Isaiah Austin's wingspan? Only 18 years old? 50% 3pt shooter? And for Vonleh, its hard for me to imagine him going to a better situation than CHA where he can learn footwork from Al Jeff & Ewing.

Problem I see is the recent history of CHA MGMT shows that when they think they are set at a certain position, they won't draft there. While I agree Vonleh is a better version of Zeller, I'm afraid that unless they trade Zeller, his skillset is too similar to what they hope Zeller can do for them to go for Vonleh, especially if they have to move up to get him.

That being said, if Randle & Gordon go top 7, then Vonleh falls to SAC at 8. SAC is pretty loaded at PF, maybe they'd switch with us for nothing too onerous, like Jeffrey Taylor + 9 for 8?

I think they like what they see in Zeller, but have to know he is destined for limited production over time. We do have to do something about the 4 spot. McBob either has to be re-signed or replaced. As good a facilitator as he is, we're not upgrading with him as a starting 4. It really depends on what Utah needs/wants most. If they are set on a big man, it may take too much to make a deal. We can offer pick swap + a guard of their choice (between Hendo or Neal), and our second rounder as a starting point.

dmutombo321 · Post #15 » by **dmutombo321** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 3:59 pm

If they stand pat at #9, I'd like for them to go McDermott or Stauskas.

However, if the opportunity arises to trade to #5 without giving up too much and walking away with Vonleh and still trying to add Lance via FA, I wouldnt be disappointed.

A lot of people forget that Vonleh was actually universally considered a SF prospect until about 18 months ago when his body matured and he added a significant amount of muscle. You can see how advanced his ball handling skills are for his size. He'd also provide us with weak side shot blocking from the 4 spot with his wingspan and agility.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBQ-Wn_R9S4[/youtube]

Eoghan · Post #16 » by **Eoghan** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 4:50 pm

1st, let's throw that 50% 3pt right out the window. He shot barely 1 (college) three a game, he's not a 50% 3pt shooter.

His post game is extremely vanilla and the opposite of explosive. His numbers are not impressive. If he didn't have long arms he'd probably be going back to Indiana.

mrknowitall215 · Post #17 » by **mrknowitall215** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 5:06 pm

I think Noah Vonleh is a lot more of a raw prospect than scouts & experts are currently leading on. That doesn't mean that he won't go on to be a All-Star caliber player in another 3-5 years from now, but he'll have a similar start to his career as Tristan Thompson & Jonas Valanciunas averaging a roundabout of 10 points and 7 rebounds

dmutombo321 · Post #18 » by **dmutombo321** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 5:21 pm

I would envision something close to the 11/9 he posted during the 29mpg he was playing with the Hoosiers if he gets similar minutes his rookie year. He's a high ceiling low floor type guy. If he bombs, agree that you've at least got Tristan Thompson..

Remember also the Indy's offense was such where he was only taking 7 shots per game.

Dont expect him to be a 50% 3 pt shooter in the NBA but the shooting #'s do show that he can stroke open jumpers from distance if left open

mrknowitall215 · Post #19 » by **mrknowitall215** » Tue Jun 3, 2014 5:43 pm

dmutombo321 wrote:I would envision something close to the 11/9 he posted during the 29mpg he was playing with the Hoosiers if he gets similar minutes his rookie year. He's a high ceiling low floor type guy. If he bombs, agree that you've at least got Tristan Thompson..

Remember also the Indy's offense was such where he was only taking 7 shots per game.

Dont expect him to be a 50% 3 pt shooter in the NBA but the shooting #'s do show that he can stroke open jumpers from distance if left open

I understand that Vonleh was underutilized at Indiana and limited to about 7 shots per game, but that's almost certain to happen in the NBA within his first few years too since he's not currently the type of player nor do he have the fine tuned skill sets that would allow a franchise to put ball in his hands --- clear out --- and expect for him to be successful yet. I'd certainly prefer Vonleh over Cody Zeller, and believe he'll have a far & away better career between the two a decade from now (barring injury), but I don't see a package that a team in the top 7 would accept for Vonleh from the Hornets without them giving up too much

mrknowitall215 · Post #20 » by **mrknowitall215** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 3:36 pm

Chad Ford wrote:
Noah Vonleh: There remains a robust debate among NBA teams among Vonleh, Julius Randle and Aaron Gordon. The argument for Vonleh? He's the biggest of the three (especially when you factor in his length); he's the most versatile offensively of the three (he can score down low and is an excellent perimeter shooter with NBA 3-point range); and he likely has the most upside. He gets looks as high as the Sixers at No. 3 and I don't think he slides past the Lakers at No. 7.

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