Around the NBA 12

[SWedd523]

I guess my divide is I personally don't think it is realistic to expect to be able to sign stars into cap space (or at least it is much less likely than being able to draft or trade for them), so I see benefits to having larger but moveable contracts.

No, it's not particularly realistic. It is impossible, however, if you never give yourself the opportunity.

-PJ on a long term contract is no longer an asset

Seems like some major bias leaking out here, obviously it depends on the number. I very much disagree that signing PJ to something like a 4 year, $80M deal would mean he couldn't be moved as part of a package for a bigger piece.

Yeah... I don't really see how this could be a point of discussion. It isn't some novel opinion that teams trade for 1. star players, 2. expiring deals, 3. rookie scale deals

PJ making 4/80 is a negative trade piece for the next three years the instant the ink is dry. It's the type of contract you attach assets like picks to if you want to move them.

[HornetJail]

$20M/year is where I look for a S&T, definitely.

if we can get him for about 3/50 to 5/80, I'm happy with that contract

[yosemiteben]

I guess my divide is I personally don't think it is realistic to expect to be able to sign stars into cap space (or at least it is much less likely than being able to draft or trade for them), so I see benefits to having larger but moveable contracts.

No, it's not particularly realistic. It is impossible, however, if you never give yourself the opportunity.

-PJ on a long term contract is no longer an asset

Seems like some major bias leaking out here, obviously it depends on the number. I very much disagree that signing PJ to something like a 4 year, $80M deal would mean he couldn't be moved as part of a package for a bigger piece.

Yeah... I don't really see how this could be a point of discussion. It isn't some novel opinion that teams trade for 1. star players, 2. expiring deals, 3. rookie scale deals

PJ making 4/80 is a negative trade piece for the next three years the instant the ink is dry. It's the type of contract you attach assets like picks to if you want to move them.

I hear ya and I think reasonable minds can differ on contract value. Might be interesting to take to the trade board to solicit non Charlotte opinion.

I just think using cap space to sign a star is by far the least likely avenue we have, but it's also IMO the only strategy where it makes sense to let PJ walk.

[SWedd523]

For a team like Charlotte, it most certainly is the least likely avenue. Trade is more viable, hence my previous post about cycling through rookie contracts and short vet deals to maintain financial flexibility. Drafting is also more viable, but the team has shown an unwillingness to bottom out for higher draft slots.

It's also why I previously stated that they should've traded him sometime in the past year and a half to get some sort of value in return.

Unfortunately, poor asset management is not a new concept to the Charlotte FO.

[amcoolio]

Au contraire, I think Donavon Mitchell would be a Hornet if we had the pure cap space to trade for him...

You think Utah would have just traded into our cap space with pick assets and no contracts over what they got from CLE? That seems highly unrealistic.

Even ignoring that issue, it also seems very impractical to consistently let talent walk so we can stay $30-35M below the cap (what would have been required to take Mitchell into cap space) in order to facilitate that sort of a deal. That whole approach to team building doesn't make sense to me.

Teams trading their disgruntled stars don't want bad contracts back. PJ would instantly be a bad contract the moment he signs his 4/80 with us. Similar to Duncan Robinson

Fine to disagree, I'll just point out that PJ does much, much more than Duncan Robinson.

Yes, I do. Obviously we would have thrown them Bouknight and/or Williams or Jones as young contract filler, but Lauri and Sexton, the contracts in the trade, were not wanted last offseason. The Mitchell was trade was all about the picks. Lauri out of nowhere blew up into an all-star, but that is not what Utah expected at all. Remember about two years ago I was pleading with people on here to sign Lauri with our FA money, but the board seemed really off Lauri and we signed Oubre anyway.

[yosemiteben]

Au contraire, I think Donavon Mitchell would be a Hornet if we had the pure cap space to trade for him...

You think Utah would have just traded into our cap space with pick assets and no contracts over what they got from CLE? That seems highly unrealistic.

Even ignoring that issue, it also seems very impractical to consistently let talent walk so we can stay $30-35M below the cap (what would have been required to take Mitchell into cap space) in order to facilitate that sort of a deal. That whole approach to team building doesn't make sense to me.

Teams trading their disgruntled stars don't want bad contracts back. PJ would instantly be a bad contract the moment he signs his 4/80 with us. Similar to Duncan Robinson

Fine to disagree, I'll just point out that PJ does much, much more than Duncan Robinson.

Yes, I do. Obviously we would have thrown them Bouknight and/or Williams or Jones as young contract filler, but Lauri and Sexton, the contracts in the trade, were not wanted last offseason. The Mitchell was trade was all about the picks. Lauri out of nowhere blew up into an all-star, but that is not what Utah expected at all. Remember about two years ago I was pleading with people on here to sign Lauri with our FA money, but the board seemed really off Lauri and we signed Oubre anyway.

Maybe you're right. Go to the TNT or Jazz board and ask, I would be shocked if they agreed.

[SWedd523]

gonna be hard to get impartial responses now after Lauri blew up

[LofJ]

gonna be hard to get impartial responses now after Lauri blew up

We were the first team linked to him in the off-season, but the Bulls wanted a pick for him and we weren't able to work out a trade.

[yosemiteben]

gonna be hard to get impartial responses now after Lauri blew up

Not like we're in a better position to tell them what they would have wanted. There's also the fact that we didn't have the cap space to even do that deal, and not signing PJ won't make it possible next year.

But let's assume we magically created the cap space. Exactly what would have been the pick package you would have offered that would have been better then CLE's + Sexton + Agbaji (assuming no value attributed to Lauri)?

[SWedd523]

I'm not the one advocating for Mitchell

[amcoolio]

Utah takes Charlotte's same picks over Cleveland no problem, becuase Charlotte has a history of being pretty bad and not a threat at all for sustained success. An unprotected Charlotte pick? Most the NBA would sign up on that very quickly

I didn't want Mitchell either, I'm just making a point that cap space is valuable beyond just signing free agents, and getting pure cap space requires no overpay deals on roleplayers that don't move the needle like Rozier and Washington. Look what OKC has done with cap space. They took bad contracts for late lottery picks.

[yosemiteben]

Never seen an owner flop before, that was crazy

[JDR720]

The Lakers are gonna win another title and I'm already irritated about it.

[JMAC3]

The Lakers are gonna win another title and I'm already irritated about it.

Nah, they are really dependent on matchups. Warriors are a good matchup for them because LeBron can hunt Steph, Poole and Klay and they also really don't have an answer for Davis. If they play Looney, Davis just shuts the rim down and if they go small then Davis just eats on offense.

Denver and Boston are awful matchups for Lakers. Have real size and can play 5 good defenders without sacrificing much on offense.

[NCHeels2008]

The Lakers are gonna win another title and I'm already irritated about it.

My fianceé is a Warriors fan, I support the Lakers (in addition to the Hornets) since I've lived in LA over a decade. Lets just say its been a tense week and I can't wait for the series to be over. Whatever happens this team was 13th in the west IN MARCH. This run is all house money and honestly, I don't expect them to pull out a ring. If they somehow do, Imma lose my ****.

[Diop]

Never seen an owner flop before, that was crazy

He should’ve gotten something for throwing the ball away

[fatlever]

Kinda feels like the end of the Warriors Dynasty. They really mismanaged assets, roster, picks last few years. Had they done better with those key decisions they could have really been set to dominate for several more years.

If Denver loses to suns, I'll be done watching playoffs for the year. I have zero interest in a suns, Lakers, Celtics, heat semifinals.

Still rooting for a Denver vs sixers finals to see joker and embiid go head to head.

I'd root for Boston if they weren't Boston. I like their team, just can't bring myself to root for a Boston sports team.

Maybe I could get behind the heat. I like spo and butler, just not the franchise.

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[LofJ]

If the Nuggets are eliminated, I'm rooting for the Heat. They have two former Hornets in their rotation. I hate the Heat, but I've always had a grudging respect for them. No way in hell I'm rooting for the Lakers or Celtics. I'm ambivalent about the Suns, although I've never liked Durant.

[SWedd523]

Agreed across the board. the Warriors really got lucky with their down seasons to get some high picks and, had they hit, they'd be staring at probably the most dominant dynasty in history.

I know it's stupid and hypothetical and revisionist, but Wagner and Sengun/Murphy in 22 and Melo in 20 and they're runaway champs.

I'm all for Denver right now. "Small" market team with a star player who isn't loud, flashy, or a social justice warrior or media guy.

Lakers and Knicks can get ****, I like seeing Steph do well but they've won enough, The Suns are kinda meh.

I don't like Boston nor Miami but I can respect the way both of those team play. I was a Spoelstra hater for awhile but looking at that roster man, I don't know how they continue to do it. They're the model franchise we should be emulating. "Well-oiled machine".

I'd like to see Denver vs Miami. That's a fun matchup

[JDR720]

I would be fine with the Suns if they didn't have KD.

Caleb and Cody getting a ring would be nice. The Heat have a likable team just...it's the Heat.

Knicks, Boston, Lakers, GS can go jump off a cliff. Philly too.

So Denver is the only one without downside.