Playoffs Mode Siakam

[JustBuzzin]

Does Siakam earn more money if he stays in Indiana?

I can see a bunch of teams offering him the max.

[Jadoogar]

Yeah I dont get why people point to Portland as some success story.

Ending up with Scoot currently to me seems like a nightmare. Literally one of the worst players in the NBA this past year.

would you rather have Scoot or the 19th pick this year, Agbachi and a 2026 pick? I would take Scoot.
also we didn't even give ourselves a chance by gunning for the play-in (who knows why). Raptors jumped in the lottery and got Barnes. We intentionally tanked that year just to give ourselves a chance. Yea, you may not get the #1 pick but if you gun for the play-in, you don't even give yourselves the chance.

But that is not even a reasonable hypothetical.

The question is would you rather have Dick + Agbaji + #19 + 2026 Pick + Bruce Brown OR trade in 2023 Siakam for whatever you could get in 2023 and MAYBE move up the #2

even in that case, yes i would. The Agbaji+19+26+bruce brown (negative) package would have been available in 2023 too. The Dick pick would have been higher than 13th atleast.

[oldncreaky]

Does Siakam earn more money if he stays in Indiana?

I can see a bunch of teams offering him the max.

A bit more money

Indiana can offer a deal starting at 30% of the salary cap, with 8% raises each year. Indiana can also offer a 5th year,

Other teams can offer a deal starting at 30% of the salary cap, but with 5% raises each year, and only 4 years.

[Zeno]

Pascal has always been an absolute killer against mismatches, which is basically the whole Bucks team without Giannis.

[YogurtProducer]

would you rather have Scoot or the 19th pick this year, Agbachi and a 2026 pick? I would take Scoot.
also we didn't even give ourselves a chance by gunning for the play-in (who knows why). Raptors jumped in the lottery and got Barnes. We intentionally tanked that year just to give ourselves a chance. Yea, you may not get the #1 pick but if you gun for the play-in, you don't even give yourselves the chance.

But that is not even a reasonable hypothetical.

The question is would you rather have Dick + Agbaji + #19 + 2026 Pick + Bruce Brown OR trade in 2023 Siakam for whatever you could get in 2023 and MAYBE move up the #2

even in that case, yes i would. The Agbaji+19+26+bruce brown (negative) package would have been available in 2023 too. The Dick pick would have been higher than 13th atleast.

Maybe that package was available, maybe it was not. I don't think IND was in a place to make a deal last year so likely that exact package was not available (in fact we know it was not - they did not have Bruce to make a deal like that at all).

Also LOL at calling Bruce Brown "negative". Just could not be further from the truth

[JustBuzzin]

Does Siakam earn more money if he stays in Indiana?

I can see a bunch of teams offering him the max.

A bit more money

Indiana can offer a deal starting at 30% of the salary cap, with 8% raises each year. Indiana can also offer a 5th year,

Other teams can offer a deal starting at 30% of the salary cap, but with 5% raises each year, and only 4 years.

Yeah I thought so.

Pretty likely he stays in Indy agree?

[Jadoogar]

But that is not even a reasonable hypothetical.

The question is would you rather have Dick + Agbaji + #19 + 2026 Pick + Bruce Brown OR trade in 2023 Siakam for whatever you could get in 2023 and MAYBE move up the #2

even in that case, yes i would. The Agbaji+19+26+bruce brown (negative) package would have been available in 2023 too. The Dick pick would have been higher than 13th atleast.

Maybe that package was available, maybe it was not. I don't think IND was in a place to make a deal last year so likely that exact package was not available (in fact we know it was not - they did not have Bruce to make a deal like that at all).

Also LOL at calling Bruce Brown "negative". Just could not be further from the truth

Semantics. We could have gotten a similar package (1 mid first, 1 very late first and 1 unknown 2 years down the road) and Bruce brown was just salary matching, this is not overwhelming package for an All-NBA caliber player. I watched Bruce Brown this season, he's not denver Bruce Brown. He needs a player like Jokic to play off.

Again, Masai has admitted he made a mistake not trading him earlier, idk why you want to die on this island.

[ConSarnit]

Siakam is a good player but dear lord how much context is being missed here.

Playing with Hali and Turner is far more ideal for Siakam’s game than anything the Raptors could have put on the floor. It shouldn’t be shocking a guy plays better with one of the best point guards in the league and a floor spacing C.

Also, here are Siakam’s shooting stats for the first 2 playoff games:

Rim: 78%
Midrange: 61%
3pt: 50%

So yeah, if Siakam has suddenly become the greatest shooter of all-time then the Raptors got ripped off. Call me crazy but I feel like his shooting is due for a regression.

I like Siakam but he’s in a way better situation with the Pacers and he’s shooting unbelievably hot right now.

Even more context is missing that Toronto Siakam this year pre trade was putting up these #'s already.

For sure. Siakam is putting up the same offensive stats with IND except his 3pt% is higher. But…

Wide open 3’s:

Raptors: 38%
Pacers: 38%

Open 3’s (defender within 4-6 feet)

Raptors: 20%
Pacers: 45%

Now that number may look significant but Siakam has only take 20 “open” 3’s with IND.

The key difference between Raptors Siakam and Pacers Siakam, at least offensively, is 5 made threes. That’s it.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The first two games haven't been matched by any NBA player since Wilt, I don't know why anyone would bother calling them unrealistic. Of course they are. He'll cool off.

The Raptors messed up so badly that they felt like not paying Siakam was a good idea, which of course is unknown, but the return was so bad it just looks like more downhill sliding. Masai Ujiri's mistreatment of Siakam during the past several years is bizarre and raises some red flags in Toronto about the mental state of our leadership, which up until recently had been nearly flawless.

[YogurtProducer]

even in that case, yes i would. The Agbaji+19+26+bruce brown (negative) package would have been available in 2023 too. The Dick pick would have been higher than 13th atleast.

Maybe that package was available, maybe it was not. I don't think IND was in a place to make a deal last year so likely that exact package was not available (in fact we know it was not - they did not have Bruce to make a deal like that at all).

Also LOL at calling Bruce Brown "negative". Just could not be further from the truth

Semantics. We could have gotten a similar package (1 mid first, 1 very late first and 1 unknown 2 years down the road) and Bruce brown was just salary matching, this is not overwhelming package for an All-NBA caliber player. I watched Bruce Brown this season, he's not denver Bruce Brown. He needs a player like Jokic to play off.

Again, Masai has admitted he made a mistake not trading him earlier, idk why you want to die on this island.

Did Masai say that? Or are you making that up?

[ItsDanger]

Masai stans can't admit failure. This is new territory for him, past history isn't as relevant as you'd assume. That team as constructed was going nowhere, was seriously flawed and the quick fix attempts were poorly thought out. Ultimately moving on from that core was forced upon by the players, not him. Classic reactive manager vs a proactive style. Just seems like management got comfortable. Ownership needs to move on.

[Jadoogar]

Maybe that package was available, maybe it was not. I don't think IND was in a place to make a deal last year so likely that exact package was not available (in fact we know it was not - they did not have Bruce to make a deal like that at all).

Also LOL at calling Bruce Brown "negative". Just could not be further from the truth

Semantics. We could have gotten a similar package (1 mid first, 1 very late first and 1 unknown 2 years down the road) and Bruce brown was just salary matching, this is not overwhelming package for an All-NBA caliber player. I watched Bruce Brown this season, he's not denver Bruce Brown. He needs a player like Jokic to play off.

Again, Masai has admitted he made a mistake not trading him earlier, idk why you want to die on this island.

Did Masai say that? Or are you making that up?

“We decided to give that team a chance,” Ujiri said. “(We had an) All-Star player in Fred VanVleet, All-NBA (player in) Pascal Siakam, All-defensive (player) OG Anunoby, (reigning) Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes — they deserved (a chance) and they wanted a rim protector. Maybe it was me being selfish and maybe it was a mistake on my part. But we went 15-11 after that (to close the regular season). And so I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.”

This is as much as a GM will admit in public.

[Wingy]

I know it probably wouldn’t have been a perfect fit, and you’re still not a favorite, and salary concerns, but as an outsider that likes them - I wish the Kings had stepped up and grabbed him.

[Hoop Hunter]

I knew he was a good player, you don't get 2 All-NBA picks for nothing. I was a hesitant in playing him max money, but Indy doesn't get very many big name players that actually want to come here. So I could live with what I thought maybe a overpay.

Not now, I'm completely fine with paying the man, back up the truck. He's been everything we could have wanted and more. He fits in so well here with our style of play. He fits in great next to Turner, their games mesh well. Hali and Paskal are still developing chemistry, getting better every game.

[Shock Defeat]

Knicks should have gone after Pascal instead of overrated OG who can't even stay on the floor. Give me Pascal over the next few years over OG.

[srhcan]

So it is now obvious that Pacers looted Raptors big time. They get an All-NBA level player who is so versatile for peanuts.

It would be nice if Pacers can realize that they did not give up much in this trade and it is kind of insulting to Siakam as well that his bid was so low. So they can revisit this trade after the playoffs and decide to give better compensation to Raptors post-trade as a goodwill gesture. Mathurin is their future so they can give Nembhard to Raptors and also Walker as Walker is not in their plans. Raptors will be entirely grateful to you. Thanks and God bless you.

[Drakeem]

Semantics. We could have gotten a similar package (1 mid first, 1 very late first and 1 unknown 2 years down the road) and Bruce brown was just salary matching, this is not overwhelming package for an All-NBA caliber player. I watched Bruce Brown this season, he's not denver Bruce Brown. He needs a player like Jokic to play off.

Again, Masai has admitted he made a mistake not trading him earlier, idk why you want to die on this island.

Did Masai say that? Or are you making that up?

“We decided to give that team a chance,” Ujiri said. “(We had an) All-Star player in Fred VanVleet, All-NBA (player in) Pascal Siakam, All-defensive (player) OG Anunoby, (reigning) Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes — they deserved (a chance) and they wanted a rim protector. Maybe it was me being selfish and maybe it was a mistake on my part. But we went 15-11 after that (to close the regular season). And so I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.”

This is as much as a GM will admit in public.

To be fair, I get Raptor fans are angry, but Masai had some pretty sound logic. You're hoping that Barnes continues to develop and progresses with his shot, that you have 2 all star/all-nba members, and a DPOY candidate, all of them with some chemistry with each other. If I left out the names and just listed out the accolades, you'd think that's a dark horse in the Eastern Conference. Unfortunately, Van Vleet regressed, Barnes regressed, OG didn't take any steps forward offensively, and Siakam simply needed more spacing. Everything that could have went wrong DID.

It's annoying that things ended the way that they did, but people are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to try and pretend that that that just came off a playoff bound season the year before with the reigning ROTY and highly rated pieces wasn't worth keeping and tinkering around. The Poeltl trade was a mistake (although I'd say the mistake wasn't trading for a 5 man, but rather trading for a 5 man who couldn't space the floor to offer room for Siakam and Barnes) but I get it.

[Boneman2]

So it is now obvious that Pacers looted Raptors big time. They get an All-NBA level player who is so versatile for peanuts.

It would be nice if Pacers can realize that they did not give up much in this trade and it is kind of insulting to Siakam as well that his bid was so low. So they can revisit this trade after the playoffs and decide to give better compensation to Raptors post-trade as a goodwill gesture. Mathurin is their future so they can give Nembhard to Raptors and also Walker as Walker is not in their plans. Raptors will be entirely grateful to you. Thanks and God bless you.

In a perfect world this would be the case.

[YogurtProducer]

Semantics. We could have gotten a similar package (1 mid first, 1 very late first and 1 unknown 2 years down the road) and Bruce brown was just salary matching, this is not overwhelming package for an All-NBA caliber player. I watched Bruce Brown this season, he's not denver Bruce Brown. He needs a player like Jokic to play off.

Again, Masai has admitted he made a mistake not trading him earlier, idk why you want to die on this island.

Did Masai say that? Or are you making that up?

“We decided to give that team a chance,” Ujiri said. “(We had an) All-Star player in Fred VanVleet, All-NBA (player in) Pascal Siakam, All-defensive (player) OG Anunoby, (reigning) Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes — they deserved (a chance) and they wanted a rim protector. Maybe it was me being selfish and maybe it was a mistake on my part. But we went 15-11 after that (to close the regular season). And so I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.”

This is as much as a GM will admit in public.

Ah - so he never said it was a mistake not trading Siakam.

They best you got is him saying "Maybe" trading for Poeltl was mistake.

The part you really should be taking from that article is:

I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.

If the worst thing we have done is traded for a starting C by giving up a pick in a weak draft... boo hoo...

[Jadoogar]

Did Masai say that? Or are you making that up?

“We decided to give that team a chance,” Ujiri said. “(We had an) All-Star player in Fred VanVleet, All-NBA (player in) Pascal Siakam, All-defensive (player) OG Anunoby, (reigning) Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes — they deserved (a chance) and they wanted a rim protector. Maybe it was me being selfish and maybe it was a mistake on my part. But we went 15-11 after that (to close the regular season). And so I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.”

This is as much as a GM will admit in public.

Ah - so he never said it was a mistake not trading Siakam.

They best you got is him saying "Maybe" trading for Poeltl was mistake.

The part you really should be taking from that article is:

I’m not going to sit here and cry over spilt milk or give you guys any excuses. If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.

If the worst thing we have done is traded for a starting C by giving up a pick in a weak draft... boo hoo...

you're being intentionally ignorant just so you can ride for Masai.
The Poeltl trade wasn't a bad trade in a vacuum. Unfortunately the world doesn't work in a vacuum. The trade locked us into a contending when it was quite clear the roster was working. It forced us to keep Siakam, OG and FVV (not getting enough value in return for 2/3 of these players) and it locked us into competing for the 9th seed while throwing away a chance at a generational prospect. So with all that context, the trade was terrible.