Where do you Rank Scottie Pippen in 2024 Season

[cdubbz]

An elite 2-way 6'8 wing?!

Pippens best season was 22ppg, 8.7rpb, 5.6apg, 2.9spg

Scottie Pippen would easily be top 15 player today. Top 10 with inflated stats for offense.

[tsherkin]

Arguably the best wing defender in the league. Very much not a quality first option in today's game, though obviously the increased tempo would help. Not a high-end offensive player, but he'd still be a decent overall player. Want to say between 13 and 20, ish. He had fantastic physical tools for defense in today's style, and he had the head for it. Very good wing rebounder, reasonably good playmaker. Coachable, ish. Frail emotionally and what-not, but still very, very talented.

[og15]

He's like a playmaking point guard version of Kawhi. Kawhi sometimes has been regarded as the second best player in the league behind LeBron. He would be in discussion for best player in the league. He finished 3rd in MVP voting that year you presented. He's a lock down defensive player and a championship level playmaker. Top 3...

Pippen is in no way Kawhi on offense, not even close, they have no similarity in their offensive game or output, so the comparison doesn't even make sense.

Top 10 in the back half of the top 10, so 7-10 range is possible, I'd have to think more, but at least top 15.

[NZB2323]

He's like a playmaking point guard version of Kawhi. Kawhi sometimes has been regarded as the second best player in the league behind LeBron. He would be in discussion for best player in the league. He finished 3rd in MVP voting that year you presented. He's a lock down defensive player and a championship level playmaker. Top 3...

Peak Pippen was never close to peak Kawhi.

Pippen 1994 playoffs: 23, 8, and 5, 52.1 TS%, 22.8 PER
Kawhi 2019 playoffs: 31, 9, and 4, 61.9 TS%, 27.9 PER

He was more around Paul George's level, who also managed to come in 3rd in MVP voting one year.

Pippen 1994 regular season: 22, 9, and 6, 54.4 TS%, 23.2 PER
George 2019 regular season: 28, 8, and 4, 58.3 TS%, 23.3 PER

Top 3 I can't agree with. I got Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, SGA, Tatum, Brunson, AD and Lebron ahead of him. Pippen would probably come in 10th unless we have playoff Butler, healthy Kawhi, or in shape Zion.

Eras matter, Scottie finished 3rd in MVP without a defensive three second and without a charge circle. He was nothing like a Paul George when adjusting for eras. He was more like a LeBron whose defense was on 100% of the time. PG shoots .423 from the field in the playoffs for his career, Scottie shot .473 WITH A CLOGGED LANE! Kawhi has a career playoff FG average of .511 and LeBron has a career playoff average of .497. Pippen plays CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL BASKETBALL, that is what he would be shooting in THIS era totally separating himself from someone like Paul George who is a talented highly productive player that doesn't have a CHIP for a reason.

I'm taking the two way player that's always healthy, so many of the names you have on that list are instantaneously disqualified.

Pippen got to play with Jordan and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Paul George got to play with Roy Hibbert and David West, then Westbrook and Steven Adams, then an injured Kawhi and Terrance Mann.

[picc]

Pippen was not peak Paul George level. He was never that type of dominant 2-way player, even at the diminished dominance of a PG. And he was nowhere close to Kawhi. A top 15 player today most likely. I think a lot of new NBA watching posters would be surprised at how limited his offensive game is especially today.

[og15]

Peak Pippen was never close to peak Kawhi.

Pippen 1994 playoffs: 23, 8, and 5, 52.1 TS%, 22.8 PER
Kawhi 2019 playoffs: 31, 9, and 4, 61.9 TS%, 27.9 PER

He was more around Paul George's level, who also managed to come in 3rd in MVP voting one year.

Pippen 1994 regular season: 22, 9, and 6, 54.4 TS%, 23.2 PER
George 2019 regular season: 28, 8, and 4, 58.3 TS%, 23.3 PER

Top 3 I can't agree with. I got Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, SGA, Tatum, Brunson, AD and Lebron ahead of him. Pippen would probably come in 10th unless we have playoff Butler, healthy Kawhi, or in shape Zion.

Eras matter, Scottie finished 3rd in MVP without a defensive three second and without a charge circle. He was nothing like a Paul George when adjusting for eras. He was more like a LeBron whose defense was on 100% of the time. PG shoots .423 from the field in the playoffs for his career, Scottie shot .473 WITH A CLOGGED LANE! Kawhi has a career playoff FG average of .511 and LeBron has a career playoff average of .497. Pippen plays CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL BASKETBALL, that is what he would be shooting in THIS era totally separating himself from someone like Paul George who is a talented highly productive player that doesn't have a CHIP for a reason.

I'm taking the two way player that's always healthy, so many of the names you have on that list are instantaneously disqualified.

Pippen got to play with Jordan and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Paul George got to play with Roy Hibbert and David West, then Westbrook and Steven Adams, then an injured Kawhi and Terrance Mann.

Also, let's cite stats in their most relevant way. Paul George takes 7 3PA/G in the playoffs for his career, Pippen took 3.0 (until 33 years old) with most coming during the short line seasons.

Their playoff 2PT%:
George: 47.5%
Pippen: 48.3% (until 33 years old)

Playoff eFG%
George: 49.8%
Pippen: 47.7%

Now, I don't think George now is as good as Pippen in 94 as he is below defensively and Pippen can actually be a point guard, Paul George doesn't have the IQ or full skills for that, and his offense is not the same as the Indiana more explosive version .

Purely as a scorer though, Pippen is closer to current George than Kawhi, and George is actually better. All the disappearing we complain about from George as a scorer, Pippen did too.

[TheGOATRises007]

Maybe top 10.

Anyone saying top 5 or top 3 have lost their minds.

[bledredwine]

This should be on the PC board but I’d have him 8th right behind Brunson because I’m a prisoner of the moment.

I think 8-10 is about right. I can't put him ahead of guys that can dominate a game on their own but he did so much like a Garnett.

Peak Pippen, there's an argument for Top 5.

By the way, I 100% consider 1992 and 1993 Scottie was every bit as good as 1993-1994 Scottie.

That was a great breakdown. Do you not consider 95 still peak? I think overall the quality of the team took a hit that year, prior to MJ's return. Losing Grant and a few others was a big deal but the numbers are still strong. I wasn't watching a ton of Bulls then, aside from that double nickel stupid Wennington final shot game.

Honestly, I may consider 1993 Pippen's best playoffs... he was most consistent, and not because of his scoring, but just how flawlessly he played defense, rebounded and assisted... just everything to help win. I tend to prioritize playoffs and finals more than anything. As for regular season, for sure 93-94 Scottie is the one. You could reasonably argue anywhere between 1991-1994 being his prime. He had the all around consistency and stats unlike earlier career playoff struggles (1990 pistons comes to mind... Bulls should have made the finals), he had peak athleticism, and he wasn't dealing with injuries like he often did during the second three-peat.

I think that people look at Scottie's scoring numbers in 93-94 and confuse that with being better... but he wasn't an efficient scorer for that time period (in the 90s, it was way less acceptable to shoot below .470'ish unless you were a 3 point specialist and I believe Pippen was below .450). That's why players like Jordan, Chuck, Malone, Hakeem, D Rob were considered the greatest players and scorers. He certainly needed Kukoc BJ and Grant's scoring as well and they were a perfect compliment to each other with Pippen as the glue. It was brilliant team play that season, BJ and Horace were in their prime, though the next season, they had great struggles after Horace and BJ left. They were doing it efficiently with resistance (post game). I think that Horace and BJ's departure was the perfect example of Pippen's strengths - team play. Without the team, he couldn't carry, but with some firepower, he thrived as the point. Random but I also think that the hand-checking and resistance allowed in the 90s is why the best stars were practically required to have strength/athleticism and a post game (Chuck/Malone/Jordan/D Rob/Hakeem/Shaq).... You didn't see a player like Isiah Thomas on the Celtics averaging 30 for that reason, just different.

Scottie excelled at everything but volume scoring, similar to Stockton. It's what made both of them two of the best possible second options to a dominant player like Malone and Jordan. It's also why IMO Penny Hardaway is the best 2nd option of the 90s- his point scoring and passing was sensational prior to injury.

[SweaterBae]

Scottie Pippen was about as good as Paul George. Obviously they’re not the same player, but their strengths and weaknesses are similar and so is their overall quality IMO. Obviously, Pippen was a greater player, since he had so much more team success and fewer injury issues, but I’m just talking here about individual quality. Peak Pippen would rank higher in the league than current Paul George does, since Paul George is past his peak now, but think about where peak Paul George landed and that’s probably about right.

This is where my first thought went.

[MrBigShot]

Behind Embiid, Giannis, Brunson, Edwards, SGA, Luka, LeBron, AD, Jokic, KD, Steph, Tatum, and end of year Wemby. Excluding Kawhi because he's literally never healthy. So top 15.

[SelfishPlayer]

Peak Pippen was never close to peak Kawhi.

Pippen 1994 playoffs: 23, 8, and 5, 52.1 TS%, 22.8 PER
Kawhi 2019 playoffs: 31, 9, and 4, 61.9 TS%, 27.9 PER

He was more around Paul George's level, who also managed to come in 3rd in MVP voting one year.

Pippen 1994 regular season: 22, 9, and 6, 54.4 TS%, 23.2 PER
George 2019 regular season: 28, 8, and 4, 58.3 TS%, 23.3 PER

Top 3 I can't agree with. I got Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, SGA, Tatum, Brunson, AD and Lebron ahead of him. Pippen would probably come in 10th unless we have playoff Butler, healthy Kawhi, or in shape Zion.

Eras matter, Scottie finished 3rd in MVP without a defensive three second and without a charge circle. He was nothing like a Paul George when adjusting for eras. He was more like a LeBron whose defense was on 100% of the time. PG shoots .423 from the field in the playoffs for his career, Scottie shot .473 WITH A CLOGGED LANE! Kawhi has a career playoff FG average of .511 and LeBron has a career playoff average of .497. Pippen plays CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL BASKETBALL, that is what he would be shooting in THIS era totally separating himself from someone like Paul George who is a talented highly productive player that doesn't have a CHIP for a reason.

I'm taking the two way player that's always healthy, so many of the names you have on that list are instantaneously disqualified.

Pippen got to play with Jordan and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Paul George got to play with Roy Hibbert and David West, then Westbrook and Steven Adams, then an injured Kawhi and Terrance Mann.

So?

[SelfishPlayer]

Pippen was not peak Paul George level. He was never that type of dominant 2-way player, even at the diminished dominance of a PG. And he was nowhere close to Kawhi. A top 15 player today most likely. I think a lot of new NBA watching posters would be surprised at how limited his offensive game is especially today.

The moves perimeter players used in the 90's still work today. I am seeing a 6'1" Jalen Brunson post people up! Kawhi's game is based upon Jordan. The only new things done on the perimeter are volume three point shooting and James Harden style ball hoging.

[NZB2323]

Eras matter, Scottie finished 3rd in MVP without a defensive three second and without a charge circle. He was nothing like a Paul George when adjusting for eras. He was more like a LeBron whose defense was on 100% of the time. PG shoots .423 from the field in the playoffs for his career, Scottie shot .473 WITH A CLOGGED LANE! Kawhi has a career playoff FG average of .511 and LeBron has a career playoff average of .497. Pippen plays CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL BASKETBALL, that is what he would be shooting in THIS era totally separating himself from someone like Paul George who is a talented highly productive player that doesn't have a CHIP for a reason.

I'm taking the two way player that's always healthy, so many of the names you have on that list are instantaneously disqualified.

Pippen got to play with Jordan and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Paul George got to play with Roy Hibbert and David West, then Westbrook and Steven Adams, then an injured Kawhi and Terrance Mann.

So?

So when you talk about a player being a championship level player, it depends who their teammates are. Pippen wouldn’t have won a championship with Roy Hibbert and David West.

Do you think Pippen, Hibbert, and West defeat LeBron, Wade, and Bosh in a playoff series?

[SelfishPlayer]

Pippen got to play with Jordan and either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Paul George got to play with Roy Hibbert and David West, then Westbrook and Steven Adams, then an injured Kawhi and Terrance Mann.

So?

So when you talk about a player being a championship level player, it depends who their teammates are. Pippen wouldn’t have won a championship with Roy Hibbert and David West.

Do you think Pippen, Hibbert, and West defeat LeBron, Wade, and Bosh in a playoff series?

Paul George has a 14 year NBA career, why did you center it upon only seven years in Indiana? Paul George has played with MVPs and Finals MVPs!

[NZB2323]

So?

So when you talk about a player being a championship level player, it depends who their teammates are. Pippen wouldn’t have won a championship with Roy Hibbert and David West.

Do you think Pippen, Hibbert, and West defeat LeBron, Wade, and Bosh in a playoff series?

Paul George has a 14 year NBA career, why did you center it upon only seven years in Indiana? Paul George has played with MVPs and Finals MVPs!

Kawhi hasn’t been healthy, and Westbrook is 11-29 without Durant in the playoffs.

Do you think that a past-his-prime Westbrook, Pippen, and Steven Adams defeat Durant, Curry, Klay, and Dray in the playoffs?

Do you think that an injured Kawhi, Pippen, and Terrance Mann defeat LeBron and AD in the playoffs in 2020?

The Clippers with Paul George are actually pretty similar to the 1999 Rockets, where Pippen played with MVPs and a Finals MVP who were past their prime and didn’t win it all.

What year does Pippen win with PG13’s supporting cast?

[SelfishPlayer]

So when you talk about a player being a championship level player, it depends who their teammates are. Pippen wouldn’t have won a championship with Roy Hibbert and David West.

Do you think Pippen, Hibbert, and West defeat LeBron, Wade, and Bosh in a playoff series?

Paul George has a 14 year NBA career, why did you center it upon only seven years in Indiana? Paul George has played with MVPs and Finals MVPs!

Kawhi hasn’t been healthy, and Westbrook is 11-29 without Durant in the playoffs.

Do you think that a past-his-prime Westbrook, Pippen, and Steven Adams defeat Durant, Curry, Klay, and Dray in the playoffs?

Do you think that an injured Kawhi, Pippen, and Terrance Mann defeat LeBron and AD in the playoffs in 2020?

The Clippers with Paul George are actually pretty similar to the 1999 Rockets, where Pippen played with MVPs and a Finals MVP who were past their prime and didn’t win it all.

What year does Pippen win with PG13’s supporting cast?

Paul George has health issues too, why are you blaming his lack of championships on everyone else's health? He's often the reason why his teams fall short!

[jerok]

He's like a playmaking point guard version of Kawhi. Kawhi sometimes has been regarded as the second best player in the league behind LeBron. He would be in discussion for best player in the league. He finished 3rd in MVP voting that year you presented. He's a lock down defensive player and a championship level playmaker. Top 3...

Peak Pippen was never close to peak Kawhi.

Pippen 1994 playoffs: 23, 8, and 5, 52.1 TS%, 22.8 PER
Kawhi 2019 playoffs: 31, 9, and 4, 61.9 TS%, 27.9 PER

He was more around Paul George's level, who also managed to come in 3rd in MVP voting one year.

Pippen 1994 regular season: 22, 9, and 6, 54.4 TS%, 23.2 PER
George 2019 regular season: 28, 8, and 4, 58.3 TS%, 23.3 PER

Top 3 I can't agree with. I got Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, SGA, Tatum, Brunson, AD and Lebron ahead of him. Pippen would probably come in 10th unless we have playoff Butler, healthy Kawhi, or in shape Zion.

Eras matter, Scottie finished 3rd in MVP without a defensive three second and without a charge circle. He was nothing like a Paul George when adjusting for eras. He was more like a LeBron whose defense was on 100% of the time. PG shoots .423 from the field in the playoffs for his career, Scottie shot .473 WITH A CLOGGED LANE! Kawhi has a career playoff FG average of .511 and LeBron has a career playoff average of .497. Pippen plays CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL BASKETBALL, that is what he would be shooting in THIS era totally separating himself from someone like Paul George who is a talented highly productive player that doesn't have a CHIP for a reason.

I'm taking the two way player that's always healthy, so many of the names you have on that list are instantaneously disqualified.

Illegal defense type clogged lanes??

[NZB2323]

Paul George has a 14 year NBA career, why did you center it upon only seven years in Indiana? Paul George has played with MVPs and Finals MVPs!

Kawhi hasn’t been healthy, and Westbrook is 11-29 without Durant in the playoffs.

Do you think that a past-his-prime Westbrook, Pippen, and Steven Adams defeat Durant, Curry, Klay, and Dray in the playoffs?

Do you think that an injured Kawhi, Pippen, and Terrance Mann defeat LeBron and AD in the playoffs in 2020?

The Clippers with Paul George are actually pretty similar to the 1999 Rockets, where Pippen played with MVPs and a Finals MVP who were past their prime and didn’t win it all.

What year does Pippen win with PG13’s supporting cast?

Paul George has health issues too, why are you blaming his lack of championships on everyone else's health? He's often the reason why his teams fall short!

What year does Pippen win with Paul George’s supporting cast?

PG13 never played with a player as good as Jordan, and players like Roy Hibbert, Steven Adams, and Terrance Mann aren’t on the same level as Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

[SelfishPlayer]

Kawhi hasn’t been healthy, and Westbrook is 11-29 without Durant in the playoffs.

Do you think that a past-his-prime Westbrook, Pippen, and Steven Adams defeat Durant, Curry, Klay, and Dray in the playoffs?

Do you think that an injured Kawhi, Pippen, and Terrance Mann defeat LeBron and AD in the playoffs in 2020?

The Clippers with Paul George are actually pretty similar to the 1999 Rockets, where Pippen played with MVPs and a Finals MVP who were past their prime and didn’t win it all.

What year does Pippen win with PG13’s supporting cast?

Paul George has health issues too, why are you blaming his lack of championships on everyone else's health? He's often the reason why his teams fall short!

What year does Pippen win with Paul George’s supporting cast?

PG13 never played with a player as good as Jordan, and players like Roy Hibbert, Steven Adams, and Terrance Mann aren’t on the same level as Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

Pippen went to the WCF without Jordan... He led that Portland team there at age 34.

[ballzboyee]

100% consider 1992 and 1993 Scottie was every bit as good as 1993-1994 Scottie.

Scottie excelled at everything but volume scoring, similar to Stockton. It's what made both of them two of the best possible second options to a dominant player like Malone and Jordan. It's also why IMO Penny Hardaway is the best 2nd option of the 90s- his point scoring and passing was sensational prior to injury.

Pretty much this. Pippen was like having a 5-tool player in the MLB that can't hit a major league curve, and therefore no matter that player is at everything else, you are not building your lineup around him. He could do everything but create his own shot consistently, and Pippen really was just average to below average at iso creation. In the playoffs against better defenses he put up some abysmal shooting performances which for some reason people just gloss completely over considering how highly some people rank him all-time. For example, in 1998 in the ECF Pippen Pippen shot .389% from the field and .585 from the stripe.

Which brings me to the next point, Pippen was a terrible free throw shooter for much of his career. He was very streaky from the line, and he would have phases where he could not buy a bucket from the line. He was never a true first option for an NBA offense. I don't see how anybody can consider him on the same level as Paul George offensively. Prime Paul George was a way better offensive player than Pippen by a significant margin. Pippen was literally in the league for almost a decade before he had a career average FT% over 70 percent, and in an era when players didn't rely on the three as second option Pippen shot a career 47% from the field. Paul George has had seasons where he was a 40/50/90 guy from the field on pretty high volume, high efficiency, as a first option. It's not close in terms of skill in the half court, getting buckets and finishing at the line between George and Pippen. George is the better player. If you put prime George with Jordan they would have destroyed in the NBA back then.

Imho, in today's league, it's very hard to rate Pippen cause everybody has elite ball skills. To be an elite player today as a wing you have to be a shot creator, finisher, and floor spacer. Literally you have to be like Luka. All of the best players in the league today have those skills. You have to be able to do all three and be efficient. Pippen was never that guy, so he's not going to be a top 10 player today. No way. Also, in today's league with the rules the way they are or have been Pippen's defensive skills would have much less impact. There are a lot of long 6'8" guys in the league today, but it doesn't matter because a lot of the pace and space defensive schemes are about close outs. Man on-ball defense is not as important like it was in the 1990's. Today it's all assignment defense and rotation. Pippen could dominate a game defensively, but unless we are talking about a Wemby or Gobert, I don't think that kind of defensive dominance still exists in a wing player. Look at Giannis as an example, who is not a wing but not a true big either. DPOY and total athletic freak, but the Bucks had a bottom 10 defense. Rotating, closing out, and contests are just team defensive concepts and not man defensive ones.