The Hook Shot seems still unstoppable to me

[naabzor]

Watching Jokic putting a master class this past night against the 4 times DPOY make me think about this topic.
Sure you need good touch on the ball. Sure you need to have at least decent footwork to create a bit of separation. But other than that? When you are 7 feet tall and shoots hooks over your opposite shoulder there is absolutely zero chance your shots will be blocked or bothered by the defender. It seems to me that this type of shot become obsolete without no good reason at all, when you are a capable center seems literally the best shot in basketball unless you have snipers form three point range of course. What do you think about it, should this type of shot being teach and adopt more from big men going forward?

[lambchop]

Keep in mind that Jokic has excellent overall touch from any range, including jumpers and hooks. The argument that is often made against the hook is that it takes too long to work. However, imo only the skyhook takes ages to become proficient at, while those mini hooks can be implemented within a year or two of consistent work.

Imo the hook only became obsolete due to aesthetics. Players simply refuse to work on it. That includes most Europeans too though.

[dans1230]

One of the greatest scorers in the history of this league utilized it as his primary shot. Ive never understood why scrub bigs at the very least didnt learn the shot. Its like the reverse layup where you utilize the rim to stop a shot blocker. Its basketball fundamentals which yound players dont find visually appealing.

[_jin]

There's a reason why only one player in the history of the game has been able to consistently use the hook shot in a efficient manner. It's a very difficult shot, you dont have sight of the ball so you can't aim, you dont have your off hand to guide the ball, it's basically all touch and you need an incredibly soft touch to be able to pull it regularly. Most big men struggle to make a one handed 5ft floater, how would they suddenly become able to make hook shots consistently. I know Kareem has been advocating for younger players to implement it but until he actually teaches a player who will make use of it on a regular basis, all the talk about hook shots are kind of moot. It's like saying Steph makes all those 40 footers so why isnt everyone doing it? Because they can't.

[toodarkmark]

I've been wondering since 1990 why one, just one, player wouldn't use it as a go to shot. Just one 7 foot guy, who doesn't have a lot going on offensively, just practice the hook shot for a few years. It'd get someone paid.

[Bloodbather]

It's definitely underutilized. For non-bigs I get not working on it, but it's too good of a weapon if you're 6'11'' and above. It's a really good way to get instant separation.

I get that it requires a soft touch that many don't have, but there are so many bigs out there with no scoring weapon whatsoever, so even just being decent at it would make a big difference.

[moderndarwin]

Even is Kareem wasn’t allowed to do the skyhook he would have been an unstoppable scorer. The ability to aim and have that sort of touch is extremely rare. Extremely rare. Joker has it.

That said we’ve seen people use it to the best of their ability. Like Dwight used a baby hook as often as possible and had decent success for someone with no touch.

The only sort of player that could actually do it would be someone skilled like say a Wemby. If Wemby worked on it tireless and had started younger working on it he could definitely do it. That said, i’m not sure a 15 foot sky hook is better than simply facing up and attacking the rim nowadays. The 10 ft+ hook shot is just not a high enough value shot to practice a lot. And when your within 10 feet you have a variety of options.

I’m also curious just how much Kareem actually did it. Like if he took 15 shots a game were say 3 of them a sky hook?

[Fairview4Life]

Saw a stat somewhere today that said Kareem’s skyhook was blocked 9 times in his entire career. Which seems absurd.

[Calvin Klein]

Robin Lopez used it pretty effectively for a bench guy. Although it was a much shorter hook.

Watch on YouTube

Ayton started implementing hook shots in 2022 and he was pretty great at it. Too bad about everything else though...

[Exp0sed]

Watching Jokic putting a master class this past night against the 4 times DPOY make me think about this topic.
Sure you need good touch on the ball. Sure you need to have at least decent footwork to create a bit of separation. But other than that? When you are 7 feet tall and shoots hooks over your opposite shoulder there is absolutely zero chance your shots will be blocked or bothered by the defender. It seems to me that this type of shot become obsolete without no good reason at all, when you are a capable center seems literally the best shot in basketball unless you have snipers form three point range of course. What do you think about it, should this type of shot being teach and adopt more from big men going forward?

not getting blocked is one thing but offenses are very efficient nowadays, very few players have enough balance, timing and touch to actually convert it at a clip that will justify the coach going for that play, consistently

Jokic certainly can but few do

[Lockdown504090]

Watching Jokic putting a master class this past night against the 4 times DPOY make me think about this topic.
Sure you need good touch on the ball. Sure you need to have at least decent footwork to create a bit of separation. But other than that? When you are 7 feet tall and shoots hooks over your opposite shoulder there is absolutely zero chance your shots will be blocked or bothered by the defender. It seems to me that this type of shot become obsolete without no good reason at all, when you are a capable center seems literally the best shot in basketball unless you have snipers form three point range of course. What do you think about it, should this type of shot being teach and adopt more from big men going forward?

not getting blocked is one thing but offenses are very efficient nowadays, very few players have enough balance, timing and touch to actually convert it at a clip that will justify the coach going for that play, consistently

Jokic certainly can but few do

Coaches actively discourage players from working on hooks and flips over the shoulder. They don’t even want you posting against like size. They want you to do it against mismatches. And even in that situation, they want layups and drawn fouls and trigger long two on the ball to get a trey off rotation. All these dive and dunk American bigs you see have all been actively discouraged from posting up

[KembaWalker]

You have to be very good at it to mathematically justify it over just launching yourself into your defender and getting free throws in the modern league

[cupcakesnake]

Jokic has the softest touch of all-time. A hook shot from any other player isn't half as sweet.

[Harry Garris]

It’s like asking why every small guard doesn’t just shoot like Steph Curry. They would if they could. Jokic has a combination of touch, footwork, and dexterity that enable him to finish moves in the post like that which other big men can’t learn.

[ellobo]

Saw a stat somewhere today that said Kareem’s skyhook was blocked 9 times in his entire career. Which seems absurd.

I don't know how accurate this number is. I remember seeing James Bailey of all people block a Kareem sky hook when Bailey was playing for the Knicks. He read/timed it and stuffed it out of Kareem's hand.

Here's an article about Wilt unofficially blocking Kareem 17 times in one playoff series and supposedly averaging 2.83 blocks per game on Kareem alone in the series, although it isn't clear how many of these were on sky hooks.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/wilt-chamberlain-blocked-kareem-17-times-in-the-1972-wcf-on-his-way-to-a-championship

Here's video of Wilt playing defense against Kareem, including a few sky hook blocks and a sequence at the end where Wilt blocks two on one possession.

Watch on YouTube

[Above The Rim]

These days half the hook shots I see are from smaller guards posting up. It’s effective against getting blocked. . It may be the offensive/defensive transformation of the nba, but if a guy like Giannis has made the effort to get into the paint, his footwork allows him to get the easy dunk instead. Otherwise he’s getting free throws.

My other theory is that some of the big centers in past found it was easier to put the correct spin on the ball with the one-handed hook. Now most big men can shoot like guards.

[wojoaderge]

There's a reason why only one player in the history of the game has been able to consistently use the hook shot in a efficient manner. It's a very difficult shot, you dont have sight of the ball so you can't aim, you dont have your off hand to guide the ball, it's basically all touch and you need an incredibly soft touch to be able to pull it regularly. Most big men struggle to make a one handed 5ft floater, how would they suddenly become able to make hook shots consistently. I know Kareem has been advocating for younger players to implement it but until he actually teaches a player who will make use of it on a regular basis, all the talk about hook shots are kind of moot. It's like saying Steph makes all those 40 footers so why isnt everyone doing it? Because they can't.

One person? Most bigs from his era had it in their repertoire and used it successfully

[naabzor]

I understand the argument that it is difficult but if a big is able to seal his man down low it's still a shot very close to the basket, just few feets away. Easy bucket in my book if you train hard enough to pull it off. I understand the argument on why every guard just does not shoot like steph but Steph shots are way more difficult, isolation threes braking down defenders off the dribble from way downtown are not that easy like a hook shot very close to the basket in my opinion.

[Harry Garris]

I understand the argument that it is difficult but if a big is able to seal his man down low it's still a shot very close to the basket, just few feets away. Easy bucket in my book if you train hard enough to pull it off. I understand the argument on why every guard just does not shoot like steph but Steph shots are way more difficult, isolation threes braking down defenders off the dribble from way downtown are not that easy like a hook shot very close to the basket in my opinion.

Why don’t you train NBA big men for a living then?

[inquisitive]

Saw a stat somewhere today that said Kareem’s skyhook was blocked 9 times in his entire career. Which seems absurd.

because his was a skyhook rather than just a hook shot. that skyhook is just unstobbable especially when a 7'2" guy does it.