The amount of talent in the league today is absurd

[ScrantonBulls]

The Corey guy is so obviously trolling. Why do you all keep feeding him?

[dhsilv2]

Players are hard as hell to stop because the rules don't Allow for you to play defense.

You knew that though.

Zone rules were literally implemented to stop star players from dominating scoring using stagnant isos and in order to emphasize ball movement. If you're crying about handchecking, that rule has been enforced since the 80s and players are smart enough now to draw shooting fouls when moron defenders violate that rule. Another example of how you think it's because the rules don't allow you to play defense but the reality is that modern players understand how rules are legislated better and how to exploit them. Seems like a skill issue to me.

League is avg 114 ppg the last two seasons. It's been above 110 for a few years now.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

I understand your point. I dismiss it. You can't convince me with your feelings. You gonna need to provide data points that back up this conjecture.

The last 5 years have been the lowest free throw rate seasons in NBA History. Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me.

[dhsilv2]

I mean, it's a fallcy to think greater offense today has to mean nobpdy is playing D. What it might mean is that teams play much better offence, which no defence could stop. If teams want to play 90s D they're basically able to. They won't be able to handcheck, but on the other side of the coin they aren't constrained by illegal D rules.

If a team tried to play this way they would be the worst team in the league, because offense today is too efficient to stand around in the paint and watch as 1 guy isos. Today's offensive schemes require a far greater level of energy to eve partly slow down.. and no, you can't slow it that much, but you slow it exponentially more than if you tried to use 90s personnel and tactics. The Pacers would average 200 points a game against alot of 90 defences.

The defense sucks. Dono what you and KG are looking at.

You're probably the kind of person who thinks hand weights are tougher than yoga because someone is yelling and you can see their muscles bulging while they do weights. In reality yoga is far tougher on your body and more draining.

OK this is just completely false...squat 3x your body weight and get back to me lol.

[The Corey's]

Zone rules were literally implemented to stop star players from dominating scoring using stagnant isos and in order to emphasize ball movement. If you're crying about handchecking, that rule has been enforced since the 80s and players are smart enough now to draw shooting fouls when moron defenders violate that rule. Another example of how you think it's because the rules don't allow you to play defense but the reality is that modern players understand how rules are legislated better and how to exploit them. Seems like a skill issue to me.

League is avg 114 ppg the last two seasons. It's been above 110 for a few years now.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

I understand your point. I dismiss it. You can't convince me with your feelings. You gonna need to provide data points that back up this conjecture.

The last 5 years have been the lowest free throw rate seasons in NBA History. Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me.

It's almost like you skipped the first half of the season before the commissioner had to reign it in.

[The Corey's]

The Corey guy is so obviously trolling. Why do you all keep feeding him?

I've made not one point other than the NBA defense is a joke.

Everyone and their mother wants to interpit this as things I never said. Like the 80s and 90s being better. That it being a joke means they're lazy or that no one is playing defense.

If you're satisfied with the defense the NBA is playing that's cool but not one person has successfully rebutted my point with a substantiated and quantified take.

The Celtics are out here beating teams asses by 50 points on the regular. I assure you it's not because they're the best offensive team of all time.

[dhsilv2]

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

lol, if guys aren't playing defense today, what were they doing in the 90's? They weren't putting in half the effort.

Is no one going to follow the threas? Am I gonna be asked to reiterate the same point over and over?

You haven't made a single point. You've even resorted to making stuff up about more free throws today which is proof you don't watch the games or you are just flat out lying.

This season teams are scoring 14.97% of their points off the line. In 1995 it was 19.63%. In 1985 it was 20.22%.

[dhsilv2]

League is avg 114 ppg the last two seasons. It's been above 110 for a few years now.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

I understand your point. I dismiss it. You can't convince me with your feelings. You gonna need to provide data points that back up this conjecture.

The last 5 years have been the lowest free throw rate seasons in NBA History. Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me.

It's almost like you skipped the first half of the season before the commissioner had to reign it in.

WTF are you talking about? It was already at an all time low in the first half. It's even lower now.

[The Corey's]

The last 5 years have been the lowest free throw rate seasons in NBA History. Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me.

It's almost like you skipped the first half of the season before the commissioner had to reign it in.

WTF are you talking about? It was already at an all time low in the first half. It's even lower now.

Where on earth did you catch me saying that free throws were at a all time high?

https://theathletic.com/5357318/2024/03/22/nba-scoring-decline-numbers-points/


I don't know what debate you're having in your head but it isn't with me. I said scoring was at a all time high and have come down since the all star break because the NBA has made a conscious effort to stop calling fouls.

Why did they do that? Because scoring was getting out of hand and believe it or not, that has something to do with defense.

[dhsilv2]

It's almost like you skipped the first half of the season before the commissioner had to reign it in.

WTF are you talking about? It was already at an all time low in the first half. It's even lower now.

Where on earth did you catch me saying that free throws were at a all time high?

https://theathletic.com/5357318/2024/03/22/nba-scoring-decline-numbers-points/


I don't know what debate you're having in your head but it isn't with me. I said scoring was at a all time high and have come down since the all star break because the NBA has made a conscious effort to stop calling fouls.

Why did they do that? Because scoring was getting out of hand and believe it or not, that has something to do with defense.

This was your exact quote.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

The league has been calling less fouls for years. The changes that have happened since the allstar break are taking already historically low foul calls and lowering them even more! In short...the NBA has had to accept that offenses are so good that they have to allow non basketball contact to help slightly lower scoring.

This is going against your argument in every possible way as good defense requires you to not foul offensive players. Your article is point out that offense has gotten so good (which to the OP, is proof that the league has never had more talent) that the league is now having to ignore fouls to appease dumb fans who can't grasph that scoring isn't a result of poor defense but offense being played at a level we've never seen before.

[The Corey's]

WTF are you talking about? It was already at an all time low in the first half. It's even lower now.

Where on earth did you catch me saying that free throws were at a all time high?

https://theathletic.com/5357318/2024/03/22/nba-scoring-decline-numbers-points/


I don't know what debate you're having in your head but it isn't with me. I said scoring was at a all time high and have come down since the all star break because the NBA has made a conscious effort to stop calling fouls.

Why did they do that? Because scoring was getting out of hand and believe it or not, that has something to do with defense.

This was your exact quote.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

The league has been calling less fouls for years. The changes that have happened since the allstar break are taking already historically low foul calls and lowering them even more! In short...the NBA has had to accept that offenses are so good that they have to allow non basketball contact to help slightly lower scoring.

This is going against your argument in every possible way as good defense requires you to not foul offensive players. Your article is point out that offense has gotten so good (which to the OP, is proof that the league has never had more talent) that the league is now having to ignore fouls to appease dumb fans who can't grasph that scoring isn't a result of poor defense but offense being played at a level we've never seen before.

Fouls were way up in the first half of the year. Never said anything about foul shots.

To ignore why the scoring is up (the rules, 14 shot second shot clock reset, bad defense) is ignore the reality.

Or course this doesn't even take into account that it would take a superstar something short of commiting murder to even catch a foul against them in the first place. It's never been easier to he a star player in the NBA.

[jkvonny]

What the **** happened in this thread?

Couple dudes simply wouldn't allow for one person to voice that the NBA defense is SUS without being jerks about it is what happened.

More like one person kept repeating something stupid and is now playing the victim.

Yep.

This once good thread/topic just went off the rails/track less than 24 hours ago.

[og15]

Where on earth did you catch me saying that free throws were at a all time high?

https://theathletic.com/5357318/2024/03/22/nba-scoring-decline-numbers-points/


I don't know what debate you're having in your head but it isn't with me. I said scoring was at a all time high and have come down since the all star break because the NBA has made a conscious effort to stop calling fouls.

Why did they do that? Because scoring was getting out of hand and believe it or not, that has something to do with defense.

This was your exact quote.

More scoring and more fouls (the NBA is literally making a concentrated effort to stop calling fouls because it got out of control) doesn't = good defense.

The league has been calling less fouls for years. The changes that have happened since the allstar break are taking already historically low foul calls and lowering them even more! In short...the NBA has had to accept that offenses are so good that they have to allow non basketball contact to help slightly lower scoring.

This is going against your argument in every possible way as good defense requires you to not foul offensive players. Your article is point out that offense has gotten so good (which to the OP, is proof that the league has never had more talent) that the league is now having to ignore fouls to appease dumb fans who can't grasph that scoring isn't a result of poor defense but offense being played at a level we've never seen before.

Fouls were way up in the first half of the year. Never said anything about foul shots.

To ignore why the scoring is up (the rules, 14 shot second shot clock reset, bad defense) is ignore the reality.

Or course this doesn't even take into account that it would take a superstar something short of commiting murder to even catch a foul against them in the first place. It's never been easier to he a star player in the NBA.

I don't know if it is possible for fouls per game to be up, but then FTA/G to not correlate with that. That would be a weird outcome, because even if we say they are calling more non shooting fouls, more foul calls would still mean more bonus foul situations.

Scoring is up among basketball everywhere, that's for sure.

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/news/2022-23-featured-more-offense-than-ever-before/

[One_and_Done]

The defense sucks. Dono what you and KG are looking at.

You're probably the kind of person who thinks hand weights are tougher than yoga because someone is yelling and you can see their muscles bulging while they do weights. In reality yoga is far tougher on your body and more draining.

OK this is just completely false...squat 3x your body weight and get back to me lol.

You can lift 3x your body weight with 2 hand weights? Wow. I didn't realise they made hand weights that big.

[DCasey91]

League Averages:

ORTG: 117 (Highest)
FG% 47.4 3P%:36.6
Pace: 96.6
FGA’s: 88.9 FG:42
3PA’s: 35 3P:12.8
FT: 21.8 FT:17
Rebounds: 40.3
Turnovers: 12.6

There’s a couple of things that stand out straight away. The pace is similar to early 90’s and shot attempts (not the shot diet important distinction)

Here’s the huge differences:

The amount of 3pa’s and makes around 40% of total attempts which will probably bump up to mid 40’s let’s say, less rebounds, less FTA’s but most exciting that hasn’t been discussed yet is turnovers. It’s heading for the lowest of all time.

Today the league is protecting the ball better than ever

Now 2 things with rules:
Handchecking and defensive violation

I’m on the fence with handchecking. With modern advancement players are just better ballhandlers especially off the dribble threats along with multiple screening action. Handchecking or essentially grabbing happens a ton behind the ball.

Now the other one with the defence should be done with. Let every team have a Draymond Green like free safety at all times.

Luka directly points it out how exploitable it really is and it definitely is.

That I think would drastically change the landscape overnight.

[jkvonny]

You're probably the kind of person who thinks hand weights are tougher than yoga because someone is yelling and you can see their muscles bulging while they do weights. In reality yoga is far tougher on your body and more draining.

OK this is just completely false...squat 3x your body weight and get back to me lol.

You can lift 3x your body weight with 2 hand weights? Wow. I didn't realise they made hand weights that big.

[Nuntius]

If points are up, defense is down. That's how it works.

That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

[The Corey's]

If points are up, defense is down. That's how it works.

That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

The defense sucks. I stand by It.

[Nuntius]

If points are up, defense is down. That's how it works.

That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

The defense sucks. I stand by It.

You are allowed to have your opinion, no matter how inaccurate that opinion may be. The opinion isn't the issue here. The issue is the "if points are up, defense is down" claim.

That claim is absolutely nonsensical. It presupposes that the quality of offense and quality of defense are on some sort of equilibrium where an increase in the former is going to bring about a corresponding decrease in the latter and vice versa.

And that just isn't how any of it works.

[The Corey's]

That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

The defense sucks. I stand by It.

You are allowed to have your opinion, no matter how inaccurate that opinion may be. The opinion isn't the issue here. The issue is the "if points are up, defense is down" claim.

That claim is absolutely nonsensical. It presupposes that the quality of offense and quality of defense are on some sort of equilibrium where an increase in the former is going to bring about a corresponding decrease in the latter and vice versa.

And that just isn't how any of it works.

I can't walk every one of you through this. So let this serve as the end of it.

https://fadeawayworld.net/paul-george-explains-why-defense-is-bad-in-todays-nba

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2024/03/04/nba-binge-scoring-not-good-for-game-opinion/

https://www.studlife.com/sports/2024/01/16/the-nbas-defense-problem-is-too-big-to-ignore-how-can-it-be-fixed

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/feb/03/nba-offensive-revolution-scoring-defense


My take is not isolated to me and shared by NBA players alike.

It's a struggle to get these players to play 82 games a year and you're all out here trying to convince me that they're giving they're defensive best. I don't think so.

[Nuntius]

The defense sucks. I stand by It.

You are allowed to have your opinion, no matter how inaccurate that opinion may be. The opinion isn't the issue here. The issue is the "if points are up, defense is down" claim.

That claim is absolutely nonsensical. It presupposes that the quality of offense and quality of defense are on some sort of equilibrium where an increase in the former is going to bring about a corresponding decrease in the latter and vice versa.

And that just isn't how any of it works.

I can't walk every one of you through this. So let this serve as the end of it.

https://fadeawayworld.net/paul-george-explains-why-defense-is-bad-in-todays-nba

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2024/03/04/nba-binge-scoring-not-good-for-game-opinion/

https://www.studlife.com/sports/2024/01/16/the-nbas-defense-problem-is-too-big-to-ignore-how-can-it-be-fixed

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/feb/03/nba-offensive-revolution-scoring-defense


My take is not isolated to me and shared by NBA players alike.

It's a struggle to get these players to play 82 games a year and you're all out here trying to convince me that they're giving they're defensive best. I don't think so.

If you re-read the two posts I've directed at you, you'll see that I didn't try to debate your point about whether defense in today's NBA is good or not. As I said in my first post, you have the right to your opinion. I'm not here to debate that opinion.

The reason why I replied to your posts in the first place was to address the "If points are up, defense is down" claim. This claim right here:

If points are up, defense is down. That's how it works.

Do you still stand by this claim?