MVP discussion thread

[cucad8]

When was the last time you can think of something like this happening?

And to be clear: Any guy who got the MVP by joining a team and appearing to revolutionize them that year is not a real analogy.

I won't say what you say is impossible, but I honestly can't think of any example where an NBA player who'd been on the team for years got MVP credit for the team's sudden success. It's a very MLB/NFL thing to happen I'll grant you though.

Kobe's MVP year? Not exact by any means, but he went from out of the playoffs, then 2 one and done seasons, and then his MVP season.

Ah, good point for a caveat: Kobe was already seen as a megastar in need of a bit more help.

I'm really asking: When was the last time a veteran player not seen as anywhere near MVP level in the past, got named MVP by continuing to play on the same team as before. And by "veteran", I mean a guy already seen to be playing in roughly the same sphere statistically as he does that new year.

With Aldridge, if we didn't see the insane team improvement this year, I doubt anyone would be talking about him as even noteworthy right now. His stats are better, but they still aren't insane.

But that goes along the same lines. Why should he be rewarded with MVP by staying at a similar level of play but having more team success? Yes, people saw he needed help, but then, when he got that help, he was MVP? That doesn't make much sense. He wasn't MVP worthy prior, apparently, when they were a .500 team. Why should adding Gasol all of a sudden make him so? It's exactly what you asked. Been on team for years getting MVP credit for team success.

[fallacy]

Paul George is falling off the map fast. His last three games he's averaging

14.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 3.6 turnovers, 27% from the field, 29% from three.


Everyone knew that he couldn't keep up what he was doing, but I didn't expect this big of a drop off. But it's only three games, let's see what happens

[dabadguy]

he was never on the map to begin with.

[NinjaSheppard]

It's

LeBron

KD
Chris Paul

and then no one else is in their stratosphere

[Woodsanity]

It's

LeBron

KD
Chris Paul

and then no one else is in their stratosphere

More like

KD

Lebron
Chris Paul

right now.

Team record matters. All three of them are putting up great numbers. Comparable advanced stats and raw numbers.

[Doctor MJ]

Ah, good point for a caveat: Kobe was already seen as a megastar in need of a bit more help.

I'm really asking: When was the last time a veteran player not seen as anywhere near MVP level in the past, got named MVP by continuing to play on the same team as before. And by "veteran", I mean a guy already seen to be playing in roughly the same sphere statistically as he does that new year.

With Aldridge, if we didn't see the insane team improvement this year, I doubt anyone would be talking about him as even noteworthy right now. His stats are better, but they still aren't insane.

But that goes along the same lines. Why should he be rewarded with MVP by staying at a similar level of play but having more team success? Yes, people saw he needed help, but then, when he got that help, he was MVP? That doesn't make much sense. He wasn't MVP worthy prior, apparently, when they were a .500 team. Why should adding Gasol all of a sudden make him so? It's exactly what you asked. Been on team for years getting MVP credit for team success.

I'm not denying the question I asked, I'm amending it to what it obviously should have been. There is no universe where Kobe '08 should be seen as completely analogous to Aldridge '14. Kobe was a far more obvious MVP candidate.

[NaturalThunder]

Paul George is falling off the map fast. His last three games he's averaging

14.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 3.6 turnovers, 27% from the field, 29% from three.


Everyone knew that he couldn't keep up what he was doing, but I didn't expect this big of a drop off. But it's only three games, let's see what happens

Not saying you're saying this, but yeah, this obviously isn't the real Paul George. I also was never sold on him being a 25 PPG, 48% FG/40% 3P player either; at least not yet. Partially because he was taking and making a lot of jumpers and I wasn't sure he could keep making them at that clip.

Of course now that I've said this, he may go on and rattle off 10ish game stretch similar to his first 20 games.

[Colbinii]

Paul George just isn't the offensive player that Lebron or Kevin Durant are, and that isn't a knock on him. You are looking at two of the best 20 offensive peaks of all time and trying to compare Paul George to them offensively just isn't fair to Lebron or Durant.
George is going to have off nights, he isn't this all time great 25-30 PPG scorer night in night out like Durant and Lebron, and it shouldn't be a surprise that he has slumps like this.

[Hero]

It's close between LeBron, KD and LMA.

LMA has the best "story" by far so if he could keep up such a scorching record then he could have the media behind him.

[Colbinii]

It's close between LeBron, KD and LMA.

LMA has the best "story" by far so if he could keep up such a scorching record then he could have the media behind him.

I'm sorry, but that team has 3 players shooting 40% or better from 3, all of whom are taking more than 5 attempts per game. That has never been done before. Add to that the fact that Dorrell Wright and Mo Williams are shooting a combined 39% with 6 attempts per game, and you are looking at the greatest team 3PT% start to a season.

Now, I don't know if you remember last year, but there was this team called the Knicks, who started 18-5, beat Miami twice, Indiana, and the Spurs in that run. Now those Knicks had this player named Carmelo, and he started off that season with this stat line through those 23 games.

28/6/2 on .476/.458/.811 and he, like every other player in the NBA, fell behind the 2 best players in the NBA.

It is foolish to think anyone but Durant or Lebron will win MVP. These two players are in their own division when talking about MVP.

You have Lebron and Durant, and then you have everyone else, in any order you want, because quite frankly, it doesn't matter.

[cucad8]

It's close between LeBron, KD and LMA.

LMA has the best "story" by far so if he could keep up such a scorching record then he could have the media behind him.

I'm sorry, but that team has 3 players shooting 40% or better from 3, all of whom are taking more than 5 attempts per game. That has never been done before. Add to that the fact that Dorrell Wright and Mo Williams are shooting a combined 39% with 6 attempts per game, and you are looking at the greatest team 3PT% start to a season.

Now, I don't know if you remember last year, but there was this team called the Knicks, who started 18-5, beat Miami twice, Indiana, and the Spurs in that run. Now those Knicks had this player named Carmelo, and he started off that season with this stat line through those 23 games.

28/6/2 on .476/.458/.811 and he, like every other player in the NBA, fell behind the 2 best players in the NBA.

It is foolish to think anyone but Durant or Lebron will win MVP. These two players are in their own division when talking about MVP.

You have Lebron and Durant, and then you have everyone else, in any order you want, because quite frankly, it doesn't matter.

Look I don't really think that LMA is going to win the award. I don't agree with your thought process though. Why bother giving the award out at the end of the season, then, if you just pick the two best players at the start, and then give it to one of them? They're both having great seasons. And one likely will win MVP, for sure. But just as much as LMA benefits from playing with good 3 point shooters, you can say Durant benefits from getting to play alongside another top 10ish player. The 3s are helping LMA win, as well as pulling attention away from hm. Just like playing with Westbrook is a huge help to Durant. Just llke playing alongside Bosh and Wade is a big help to Lebron. Just like playing alongside Hibbert and a great defensive scheme is a huge help to George, etc.

[pauk89]

You have been warned.

[Ayt]

You are going to need to explain how Durant is lapping LeBron.

[Hero]

I'm sorry, but that team has 3 players shooting 40% or better from 3, all of whom are taking more than 5 attempts per game. That has never been done before. Add to that the fact that Dorrell Wright and Mo Williams are shooting a combined 39% with 6 attempts per game, and you are looking at the greatest team 3PT% start to a season.

Now, I don't know if you remember last year, but there was this team called the Knicks, who started 18-5, beat Miami twice, Indiana, and the Spurs in that run. Now those Knicks had this player named Carmelo, and he started off that season with this stat line through those 23 games.

28/6/2 on .476/.458/.811 and he, like every other player in the NBA, fell behind the 2 best players in the NBA.

It is foolish to think anyone but Durant or Lebron will win MVP. These two players are in their own division when talking about MVP.

You have Lebron and Durant, and then you have everyone else, in any order you want, because quite frankly, it doesn't matter.

The year Rose won it, his team had 4 more wins that LeBron. Even though LeBron played way better, Rose won the Sure KD and LBJ are the overwhelming favorites but I was just speculating.

Right now is LMA not up there with the other 2? I think he is. Last year when the Knicks and Melo were playing that well, many had him in the conversation also. I'm not saying I expect him to win but given what happened to Rose in 2011, he does have a shot if his team can get the record.

[Keller61]

One thing you can say about Durant is that he seems to step up his production in close games. In games decided by 10 points or fewer, he is averaging 31.1/9.4/5.2, compared to 24.6/6.6/4.4 in games decided by more than 10 points. In contrast, LeBron averages nearly the same numbers in close games (25.6/6.8/6.7) as he does in non-close games (24.8/6.6/6.2).

[Reservoirdawgs]

One thing you can say about Durant is that he seems to step up his production in close games. In games decided by 10 points or fewer, he is averaging 31.1/9.4/5.2, compared to 24.6/6.6/4.4 in games decided by more than 10 points. In contrast, LeBron averages nearly the same numbers in close games (25.6/6.8/6.7) as he does in non-close games (24.8/6.6/6.2).

Ten points or fewer? I have never considered ten points to be a close game. Is this also only in the fourth quarter? How many minutes has each player played in this metric that you are using?

[Bobbcats]

The year Rose won it, his team had 4 more wins that LeBron. Even though LeBron played way better, Rose won the Sure KD and LBJ are the overwhelming favorites but I was just speculating.

Right now is LMA not up there with the other 2? I think he is. Last year when the Knicks and Melo were playing that well, many had him in the conversation also. I'm not saying I expect him to win but given what happened to Rose in 2011, he does have a shot if his team can get the record.
- See more at: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1281178&start=1215#sthash.kIZKnAYf.dpuf

Huge factor that made the Rose thing possible (and Kobe's too IMO): Portland is no Chicago/LA. If you play very well in Chicago you are a superstar. If you play as well in Portland you are not.

[Tave]

Honestly I think market size is irrelevant. Nash won in Phoenix with no one watching, Garnett won it with the Twolves of all clubs, the list goes on and on.

Rose won his MVP based on (in no particular order) his own improved play, his team's record, and the unintended fallout resulting from The Decision.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Rose won his MVP based on (in no particular order) his own improved play, his team's record, and the unintended fallout resulting from The Decision.

Your last point was why Rose won. Let's be real, people were pissed about the decision pretty much around the entire league. If there was a case for pretty much anyone else, they were going to get the nod over LBJ that year (and it was a WEAK year for MVP candidates)

Aldridge is not going to have that luxury. AND he has to beat out Durant in the same conference? Tough. There's a very good chance he would not even make All-NBA 1st team at forward with James/Durant there.

He definitely deserves to be mentioned however in the MVP race, no doubt about that.

[TheRobin]

Rose won his MVP based on (in no particular order) his own improved play, his team's record, and the unintended fallout resulting from The Decision.

Your last point was why Rose won. Let's be real, people were pissed about the decision pretty much around the entire league. If there was a case for pretty much anyone else, they were going to get the nod over LBJ that year (and it was a WEAK year for MVP candidates)

Aldridge is not going to have that luxury. AND he has to beat out Durant in the same conference? Tough. There's a very good chance he would not even make All-NBA 1st team at forward with James/Durant there.

He definitely deserves to be mentioned however in the MVP race, no doubt about that.

Portland would trade aldridge for Durant