[2017 NBA Draft Discussion] - (1: PHI, 2: LAL, 3: BOS)!

[Eyeamok]

This looks like JJ explaining the car kicking incident...

Magic is huge

They are all like "Word you said what?!"

[koogiking]

Magic played power forward for a season

[SK21209]

I think the Lakers are both doing their due diligence and trying to gauge how Lonzo reacts to not being just handed the goal he's wanted forever.

Also, I really don't see the love for Jackson as a prospect. The guy isn't a good shooter and I don't see him as some stopper in the NBA. Good defender in college but he doesn't have the frame of someone like Kawhi who could add weight to defend upper echelon NBA wings. I don't take him if I'm the Lakers and definitely don't take him if I'm the Sixers given their existing dearth of shooting. If I'm the Sixers I try to trade down a few picks and take Monk or Smith or just stay at 3 and take them since they're the best fit.

[zshawn10]

[Woj Podcast] "Josh Jackson really has moved himself into consideration a little bit at #1".

Says that Jackson is in play every where in the top five, two GMs in the top 6 told him they think he's maybe the best player in the draft over Fultz, Lakers are super torn on him and Ball internally, and that the Celtics really like him but he didn't work out for them though there's still time for that to happen.

Starts at 55 min or so

[zshawn10]

[Chad Ford] Lonzo ranked in Tier 1 among NBA scouts and executives. Category reserved for surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players ranked Tier 1 since 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Embiid and Jabari Parker

Spoiler:

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

Fultz was unanimously nominated for Tier 1 by the NBA scouts and executives I polled for this piece. Ball was more polarizing for sure, but he still got a majority of the votes for Tier 1.
Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)
De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky
Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State
Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona
Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky
Frank Ntilikina, PG, France
Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State
Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

This is the largest Tier 2 we've ever had. This tier is reserved for players with All-Star potential. However, each player in Tier 2 has a weakness that some teams believe will keep him from being a superstar.
In Fox and Jackson's case, it's the lack of a consistent jumper. Isaac needs to add strength and find a position. Markkanen and Monk are too one-dimensional right now. Smith and Tatum might be too selfish with the ball. Ntilikina isn't an elite athlete.

Fox, Jackson and Tatum all received only Tier 1 and Tier 2 votes. Isaac, Monk and Smith all were unanimous in Tier 2. Markkanen and Ntilikina had some Tier 3 votes, but the majority were Tier 2. Zach Collins received a lot of votes in Tier 2, but just barely missed the cut.
Having 10 players in the first two tiers is extraordinary for a draft class.

Tier 3 (NBA starters)
OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana
Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga
Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke
Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke
Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

This is a solid Tier 3, but with the exception of Collins, most teams see a significant drop-off here. This tier is usually reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters in their careers.
Having 15 players in the first three tiers makes for a very strong draft. The closest we got was in 2014 when we had 12 players in the top three tiers. Of this group, Collins was the only player not to receive Tier 4 votes, so the consensus breaks down at this point.

The biggest issue for scouts was ranking Anunoby and Giles. Both have had significant knee injuries. Giles is actually healed and ready to play, but teams are worried because he has had two major knee surgeries and didn't look nearly as explosive at Duke last season. Anunoby hurt his knee in January and could miss his rookie season.
Based on sheer talent, virtually every scout and front office executive had Giles as either a Tier 1 or Tier 2 prospect. And all but one had Anunoby as a Tier 2 guy. If they get healthy, they're steals in Tier 3. But their previous injuries put a cloud over their draft stock.

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)
Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas
Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA
John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest
Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This is a smaller Tier 4 group than usual.
Teams are really all over the place on these guys. John Collins received a lot of votes for Tier 3 (and none in Tier 5), but the majority of teams had these players ranked in Tier 4.

All three of the others -- Allen, Anigbogu and Patton -- barely made the cut into Tier 4, with just over 50 percent voting them in Tier 4 and the rest in Tier 5. None of them received Tier 3 votes.

Tier 5 (Rotation players)
Edrice Adebayo, PF, Fr., Kentucky
Tony Bradley, C, Fr., North Carolina
Terrance Ferguson, SG, Australia
Frank Jackson, G, Fr., Duke
Justin Jackson, SF, Jr., North Carolina
TJ Leaf, PF, Fr., UCLA
Anzejs Pasecniks, C, Latvia
Ivan Rabb, PF, So., Cal
Caleb Swanigan, PF, So., Purdue
D.J. Wilson, PF, Jr., Michigan

This next group is a bit small for a Tier 5, but it's small in part because of how big the top three tiers are. This area of the draft is typically reserved for rotation players who are unlikely to start for good teams but could become solid role players off the bench.

In this draft, that's roughly picks Nos. 20-30. A few players in this tier received Tier 4 votes. They included Jackson, Leaf and Pasecniks. And a couple of players on this list received Tier 6 votes, including Rabb and Swanigan.

Tier 6 (potential first-rounders)
Jordan Bell, PF, Jr., Oregon
Jonah Bolden, SF, Australia
Thomas Bryant, F/C, So. Indiana
Jawun Evans, PG, So., Oklahoma State
Josh Hart, SG, Sr., Villanova
Isaiah Hartenstein, PF, Germany
Tyler Lydon, SF, So., Syracuse
Semi Ojeleye, F, Jr., SMU
Alec Peters, F, Sr., Valpariso
Monte Morris, PG, Sr., Iowa State
Devin Robinson, SF, Jr., Florida
Derrick White, PG, Jr., Colorao
This tier has the players that at least one team told me they had ranked in their top 30. A few -- Bell, Evans, Hartenstein, Lydon and Ojeleye -- got Tier 5 votes. The rest are likely second-round picks.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect, but the teams that run it have found that it improves their performance. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19602916/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-more-freshmen-tiers-2017-nba-draft

[Cornbread]

Maybe Ingram at the 2? Or he's too slow for that? Ingram is the physically weaker of the two, so on this alone, he'd probably be better at the 2, but I dunno how his foot speed will affect him there.

I don't see either of them being able to play the 2 in the long run. It would be an interesting scenario to keep track of if they pick him.

Ingram will be a PF as soon as he adds some bulk and Jackson is a SF.

I don't see Ingram, with that frame, ever adding enough bulk to be a PF.

[76ciology]

[Woj Podcast] "Josh Jackson really has moved himself into consideration a little bit at #1".

Says that Jackson is in play every where in the top five, two GMs in the top 6 told him they think he's maybe the best player in the draft over Fultz, Lakers are super torn on him and Ball internally, and that the Celtics really like him but he didn't work out for them though there's still time for that to happen.

Starts at 55 min or so

Sixers luck. Or not.

[taj2133]

Lonzo Ball Doing Desperate Second Workout With Lakers, Who May Have Already Promised Josh Jackson
213
SHARES
SHARE
TWEET
EMAIL
By: Stephen Douglas | 2 hours ago
Josh Jackson may have been given a promise ring by either the Los Angeles Lakers or Philadelphia 76ers according to some tweets and the process of elimination.

Follow
John Gambadoro ✔ @Gambo987
Josh Jackson has been promised - has worked out for Lakers in LA. Has not worked out for Phoenix yet. It could be Philly but likely Lakers.
2:02 PM - 12 Jun 2017
273 273 Retweets 370 370 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Jackson canceled a workout with the Boston Celtics. That could be because they have no interest or may be because they’re trading the pick so it would be a waste of everyone’s time. As for Phoenix, maybe Jackson doesn’t want to go there. Or maybe the Suns are just optimistic about Lonzo Ball dropping to them. Or some third thing.

Either way, it looks like Jackson is planning on going to Philly or L.A. If he expects to be a Laker, that’s bad news for the Ball family. And if they’ve heard these rumors maybe that’s why Lonzo Ball is going to have a second workout with the Lakers to show them how serious he is about working out and training. Some people reportedly thought he was a little out of shape at his first workout.

Follow
Ramona Shelburne ✔ @ramonashelburne
Lonzo Ball's 2nd workout with the Lakers will be at an undisclosed location on Fri. He wants them to see his work ethic& training methods
8:12 PM - 14 Jun 2017
176 176 Retweets 394 394 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
A week out from the draft and it seems no one knows who is going anywhere. Except Jason McIntyre.

Boston Celtics, Commentary, Josh Jackson, Lonzo Ball, Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers, NBA
http://thebiglead.com/2017/06/14/lonzo-ball-doing-desperate-second-workout-with-lakers-who-may-have-already-promised-josh-jackson/

[JellosJigglin]

I don't see either of them being able to play the 2 in the long run. It would be an interesting scenario to keep track of if they pick him.

Ingram will be a PF as soon as he adds some bulk and Jackson is a SF.

I don't see Ingram, with that frame, ever adding enough bulk to be a PF.

This isn't 1998. He's 6'9" and could top out at 6'10" and already has a 7'3" wingspan. He can play 4 eventually. He already played some 4 this year with Randle at 5.

[Alonzo_Morning]

Maybe Ingram at the 2? Or he's too slow for that? Ingram is the physically weaker of the two, so on this alone, he'd probably be better at the 2, but I dunno how his foot speed will affect him there.

I don't see either of them being able to play the 2 in the long run. It would be an interesting scenario to keep track of if they pick him.

Ingram will be a PF as soon as he adds some bulk

[Veyron]

Pls Sixers, just dont draft Lonzo Ball.

[LofJ]

[Chad Ford] Lonzo ranked in Tier 1 among NBA scouts and executives. Category reserved for surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players ranked Tier 1 since 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Embiid and Jabari Parker

Spoiler:

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

Fultz was unanimously nominated for Tier 1 by the NBA scouts and executives I polled for this piece. Ball was more polarizing for sure, but he still got a majority of the votes for Tier 1.
Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)
De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky
Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State
Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona
Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky
Frank Ntilikina, PG, France
Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State
Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

This is the largest Tier 2 we've ever had. This tier is reserved for players with All-Star potential. However, each player in Tier 2 has a weakness that some teams believe will keep him from being a superstar.
In Fox and Jackson's case, it's the lack of a consistent jumper. Isaac needs to add strength and find a position. Markkanen and Monk are too one-dimensional right now. Smith and Tatum might be too selfish with the ball. Ntilikina isn't an elite athlete.

Fox, Jackson and Tatum all received only Tier 1 and Tier 2 votes. Isaac, Monk and Smith all were unanimous in Tier 2. Markkanen and Ntilikina had some Tier 3 votes, but the majority were Tier 2. Zach Collins received a lot of votes in Tier 2, but just barely missed the cut.
Having 10 players in the first two tiers is extraordinary for a draft class.

Tier 3 (NBA starters)
OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana
Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga
Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke
Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke
Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

This is a solid Tier 3, but with the exception of Collins, most teams see a significant drop-off here. This tier is usually reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters in their careers.
Having 15 players in the first three tiers makes for a very strong draft. The closest we got was in 2014 when we had 12 players in the top three tiers. Of this group, Collins was the only player not to receive Tier 4 votes, so the consensus breaks down at this point.

The biggest issue for scouts was ranking Anunoby and Giles. Both have had significant knee injuries. Giles is actually healed and ready to play, but teams are worried because he has had two major knee surgeries and didn't look nearly as explosive at Duke last season. Anunoby hurt his knee in January and could miss his rookie season.
Based on sheer talent, virtually every scout and front office executive had Giles as either a Tier 1 or Tier 2 prospect. And all but one had Anunoby as a Tier 2 guy. If they get healthy, they're steals in Tier 3. But their previous injuries put a cloud over their draft stock.

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)
Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas
Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA
John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest
Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This is a smaller Tier 4 group than usual.
Teams are really all over the place on these guys. John Collins received a lot of votes for Tier 3 (and none in Tier 5), but the majority of teams had these players ranked in Tier 4.

All three of the others -- Allen, Anigbogu and Patton -- barely made the cut into Tier 4, with just over 50 percent voting them in Tier 4 and the rest in Tier 5. None of them received Tier 3 votes.

Tier 5 (Rotation players)
Edrice Adebayo, PF, Fr., Kentucky
Tony Bradley, C, Fr., North Carolina
Terrance Ferguson, SG, Australia
Frank Jackson, G, Fr., Duke
Justin Jackson, SF, Jr., North Carolina
TJ Leaf, PF, Fr., UCLA
Anzejs Pasecniks, C, Latvia
Ivan Rabb, PF, So., Cal
Caleb Swanigan, PF, So., Purdue
D.J. Wilson, PF, Jr., Michigan

This next group is a bit small for a Tier 5, but it's small in part because of how big the top three tiers are. This area of the draft is typically reserved for rotation players who are unlikely to start for good teams but could become solid role players off the bench.

In this draft, that's roughly picks Nos. 20-30. A few players in this tier received Tier 4 votes. They included Jackson, Leaf and Pasecniks. And a couple of players on this list received Tier 6 votes, including Rabb and Swanigan.

Tier 6 (potential first-rounders)
Jordan Bell, PF, Jr., Oregon
Jonah Bolden, SF, Australia
Thomas Bryant, F/C, So. Indiana
Jawun Evans, PG, So., Oklahoma State
Josh Hart, SG, Sr., Villanova
Isaiah Hartenstein, PF, Germany
Tyler Lydon, SF, So., Syracuse
Semi Ojeleye, F, Jr., SMU
Alec Peters, F, Sr., Valpariso
Monte Morris, PG, Sr., Iowa State
Devin Robinson, SF, Jr., Florida
Derrick White, PG, Jr., Colorao
This tier has the players that at least one team told me they had ranked in their top 30. A few -- Bell, Evans, Hartenstein, Lydon and Ojeleye -- got Tier 5 votes. The rest are likely second-round picks.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect, but the teams that run it have found that it improves their performance. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19602916/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-more-freshmen-tiers-2017-nba-draft

So was KAT tier 1 or not? If he wasn't that invalidates everything else. He had one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever and deserved that designation far more than Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

[Snotbubbles]

[Chad Ford] Lonzo ranked in Tier 1 among NBA scouts and executives. Category reserved for surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players ranked Tier 1 since 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Embiid and Jabari Parker

Spoiler:

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

Fultz was unanimously nominated for Tier 1 by the NBA scouts and executives I polled for this piece. Ball was more polarizing for sure, but he still got a majority of the votes for Tier 1.
Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)
De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky
Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State
Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona
Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky
Frank Ntilikina, PG, France
Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State
Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

This is the largest Tier 2 we've ever had. This tier is reserved for players with All-Star potential. However, each player in Tier 2 has a weakness that some teams believe will keep him from being a superstar.
In Fox and Jackson's case, it's the lack of a consistent jumper. Isaac needs to add strength and find a position. Markkanen and Monk are too one-dimensional right now. Smith and Tatum might be too selfish with the ball. Ntilikina isn't an elite athlete.

Fox, Jackson and Tatum all received only Tier 1 and Tier 2 votes. Isaac, Monk and Smith all were unanimous in Tier 2. Markkanen and Ntilikina had some Tier 3 votes, but the majority were Tier 2. Zach Collins received a lot of votes in Tier 2, but just barely missed the cut.
Having 10 players in the first two tiers is extraordinary for a draft class.

Tier 3 (NBA starters)
OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana
Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga
Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke
Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke
Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

This is a solid Tier 3, but with the exception of Collins, most teams see a significant drop-off here. This tier is usually reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters in their careers.
Having 15 players in the first three tiers makes for a very strong draft. The closest we got was in 2014 when we had 12 players in the top three tiers. Of this group, Collins was the only player not to receive Tier 4 votes, so the consensus breaks down at this point.

The biggest issue for scouts was ranking Anunoby and Giles. Both have had significant knee injuries. Giles is actually healed and ready to play, but teams are worried because he has had two major knee surgeries and didn't look nearly as explosive at Duke last season. Anunoby hurt his knee in January and could miss his rookie season.
Based on sheer talent, virtually every scout and front office executive had Giles as either a Tier 1 or Tier 2 prospect. And all but one had Anunoby as a Tier 2 guy. If they get healthy, they're steals in Tier 3. But their previous injuries put a cloud over their draft stock.

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)
Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas
Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA
John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest
Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This is a smaller Tier 4 group than usual.
Teams are really all over the place on these guys. John Collins received a lot of votes for Tier 3 (and none in Tier 5), but the majority of teams had these players ranked in Tier 4.

All three of the others -- Allen, Anigbogu and Patton -- barely made the cut into Tier 4, with just over 50 percent voting them in Tier 4 and the rest in Tier 5. None of them received Tier 3 votes.

Tier 5 (Rotation players)
Edrice Adebayo, PF, Fr., Kentucky
Tony Bradley, C, Fr., North Carolina
Terrance Ferguson, SG, Australia
Frank Jackson, G, Fr., Duke
Justin Jackson, SF, Jr., North Carolina
TJ Leaf, PF, Fr., UCLA
Anzejs Pasecniks, C, Latvia
Ivan Rabb, PF, So., Cal
Caleb Swanigan, PF, So., Purdue
D.J. Wilson, PF, Jr., Michigan

This next group is a bit small for a Tier 5, but it's small in part because of how big the top three tiers are. This area of the draft is typically reserved for rotation players who are unlikely to start for good teams but could become solid role players off the bench.

In this draft, that's roughly picks Nos. 20-30. A few players in this tier received Tier 4 votes. They included Jackson, Leaf and Pasecniks. And a couple of players on this list received Tier 6 votes, including Rabb and Swanigan.

Tier 6 (potential first-rounders)
Jordan Bell, PF, Jr., Oregon
Jonah Bolden, SF, Australia
Thomas Bryant, F/C, So. Indiana
Jawun Evans, PG, So., Oklahoma State
Josh Hart, SG, Sr., Villanova
Isaiah Hartenstein, PF, Germany
Tyler Lydon, SF, So., Syracuse
Semi Ojeleye, F, Jr., SMU
Alec Peters, F, Sr., Valpariso
Monte Morris, PG, Sr., Iowa State
Devin Robinson, SF, Jr., Florida
Derrick White, PG, Jr., Colorao
This tier has the players that at least one team told me they had ranked in their top 30. A few -- Bell, Evans, Hartenstein, Lydon and Ojeleye -- got Tier 5 votes. The rest are likely second-round picks.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect, but the teams that run it have found that it improves their performance. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19602916/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-more-freshmen-tiers-2017-nba-draft

So was KAT tier 1 or not? If he wasn't that invalidates everything else. He had one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever and deserved that designation far more than Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

Mis-quote by the poster. If you read the article is says this year Ball & Fultz are Tier 1. Last year Ben Simmons. The year before KAT. Then it goes on to list the others apart from those 4. Very poor writing.

[bwgood77]

[Chad Ford] Lonzo ranked in Tier 1 among NBA scouts and executives. Category reserved for surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players ranked Tier 1 since 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Embiid and Jabari Parker

Spoiler:

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

Fultz was unanimously nominated for Tier 1 by the NBA scouts and executives I polled for this piece. Ball was more polarizing for sure, but he still got a majority of the votes for Tier 1.
Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)
De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky
Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State
Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona
Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky
Frank Ntilikina, PG, France
Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State
Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

This is the largest Tier 2 we've ever had. This tier is reserved for players with All-Star potential. However, each player in Tier 2 has a weakness that some teams believe will keep him from being a superstar.
In Fox and Jackson's case, it's the lack of a consistent jumper. Isaac needs to add strength and find a position. Markkanen and Monk are too one-dimensional right now. Smith and Tatum might be too selfish with the ball. Ntilikina isn't an elite athlete.

Fox, Jackson and Tatum all received only Tier 1 and Tier 2 votes. Isaac, Monk and Smith all were unanimous in Tier 2. Markkanen and Ntilikina had some Tier 3 votes, but the majority were Tier 2. Zach Collins received a lot of votes in Tier 2, but just barely missed the cut.
Having 10 players in the first two tiers is extraordinary for a draft class.

Tier 3 (NBA starters)
OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana
Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga
Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke
Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke
Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

This is a solid Tier 3, but with the exception of Collins, most teams see a significant drop-off here. This tier is usually reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters in their careers.
Having 15 players in the first three tiers makes for a very strong draft. The closest we got was in 2014 when we had 12 players in the top three tiers. Of this group, Collins was the only player not to receive Tier 4 votes, so the consensus breaks down at this point.

The biggest issue for scouts was ranking Anunoby and Giles. Both have had significant knee injuries. Giles is actually healed and ready to play, but teams are worried because he has had two major knee surgeries and didn't look nearly as explosive at Duke last season. Anunoby hurt his knee in January and could miss his rookie season.
Based on sheer talent, virtually every scout and front office executive had Giles as either a Tier 1 or Tier 2 prospect. And all but one had Anunoby as a Tier 2 guy. If they get healthy, they're steals in Tier 3. But their previous injuries put a cloud over their draft stock.

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)
Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas
Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA
John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest
Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This is a smaller Tier 4 group than usual.
Teams are really all over the place on these guys. John Collins received a lot of votes for Tier 3 (and none in Tier 5), but the majority of teams had these players ranked in Tier 4.

All three of the others -- Allen, Anigbogu and Patton -- barely made the cut into Tier 4, with just over 50 percent voting them in Tier 4 and the rest in Tier 5. None of them received Tier 3 votes.

Tier 5 (Rotation players)
Edrice Adebayo, PF, Fr., Kentucky
Tony Bradley, C, Fr., North Carolina
Terrance Ferguson, SG, Australia
Frank Jackson, G, Fr., Duke
Justin Jackson, SF, Jr., North Carolina
TJ Leaf, PF, Fr., UCLA
Anzejs Pasecniks, C, Latvia
Ivan Rabb, PF, So., Cal
Caleb Swanigan, PF, So., Purdue
D.J. Wilson, PF, Jr., Michigan

This next group is a bit small for a Tier 5, but it's small in part because of how big the top three tiers are. This area of the draft is typically reserved for rotation players who are unlikely to start for good teams but could become solid role players off the bench.

In this draft, that's roughly picks Nos. 20-30. A few players in this tier received Tier 4 votes. They included Jackson, Leaf and Pasecniks. And a couple of players on this list received Tier 6 votes, including Rabb and Swanigan.

Tier 6 (potential first-rounders)
Jordan Bell, PF, Jr., Oregon
Jonah Bolden, SF, Australia
Thomas Bryant, F/C, So. Indiana
Jawun Evans, PG, So., Oklahoma State
Josh Hart, SG, Sr., Villanova
Isaiah Hartenstein, PF, Germany
Tyler Lydon, SF, So., Syracuse
Semi Ojeleye, F, Jr., SMU
Alec Peters, F, Sr., Valpariso
Monte Morris, PG, Sr., Iowa State
Devin Robinson, SF, Jr., Florida
Derrick White, PG, Jr., Colorao
This tier has the players that at least one team told me they had ranked in their top 30. A few -- Bell, Evans, Hartenstein, Lydon and Ojeleye -- got Tier 5 votes. The rest are likely second-round picks.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect, but the teams that run it have found that it improves their performance. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19602916/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-more-freshmen-tiers-2017-nba-draft

So was KAT tier 1 or not? If he wasn't that invalidates everything else. He had one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever and deserved that designation far more than Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

Mis-quote by the poster. If you read the article is says this year Ball & Fultz are Tier 1. Last year Ben Simmons. The year before KAT. Then it goes on to list the others apart from those 4. Very poor writing.

You mean where it says this?

Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

That's because he asks GMs to rank the players by tiers, and the results are based on where the majority of ones he asked rank them. Just because those three were ranked by some in tier one, they were ranked by the majority in tier 1...he was just stating some GMs felt they belonged in tier 1.

This is how it works: Both pieces are reported pieces. In other words, I talk with NBA scouts and executives to get a sense of:

• A. Which teams like which players (mock draft).

• B. What the consensus is among all 30 NBA teams about who the best players in the draft are (Big Board and Top 100).

To make sense of disparate rankings and debates over team needs versus best player available, the past few years I've chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams that have been very successful in the draft, what I call a tier system. Instead of developing an exact order from 1 to 60 of the best players in the draft, these teams group players, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need.

This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.
So how does the tier system work? A team ranks players in each tier according to team need. So in Tier 3, if shooting guard is the biggest need, a shooting guard is ranked No. 1. If center is the biggest need, center is ranked No. 1.

http://www.espn.com/nba/draft/insider/story/_/id/11069494/nba-draft-how-tier-system-used

[Snotbubbles]

So was KAT tier 1 or not? If he wasn't that invalidates everything else. He had one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever and deserved that designation far more than Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

Mis-quote by the poster. If you read the article is says this year Ball & Fultz are Tier 1. Last year Ben Simmons. The year before KAT. Then it goes on to list the others apart from those 4. Very poor writing.

You mean where it says this?

Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

No where he says this:

Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

[bwgood77]

Mis-quote by the poster. If you read the article is says this year Ball & Fultz are Tier 1. Last year Ben Simmons. The year before KAT. Then it goes on to list the others apart from those 4. Very poor writing.

You mean where it says this?

Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

No where he says this:

Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that, Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 -- Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker -- have been ranked in this slot.

Well all he is saying there is naming the 8 players since 2009 that have fallen in tier 1. So only 8 players in 8 previous years have been ranked there, 1 in 5 of the years, 3 in one year, and none in the other two years. So it's rare to even have 2.

[F N 11]

Lakers would be dumb not to draft lonzo. If Boston didnt have IT I would say draft him as well.

[JellosJigglin]

Lakers would be dumb not to draft lonzo. If Boston didnt have IT I would say draft him as well.

Just going off analytics it would be a no brainer. But there are some concerns about whether he'd be able to play his game in the NBA effectively. I think he'd put butts in seats and that might be enough to push the Lakers over the fence.

[magnumt]

Lakers would be dumb not to draft lonzo. If Boston didnt have IT I would say draft him as well.

Just going off analytics it would be a no brainer. But there are some concerns about whether he'd be able to play his game in the NBA effectively. I think he'd put butts in seats and that might be enough to push the Lakers over the fence.

Not too mention the Lavar Ball factor.

--Mags

[SK21209]

1. Boston - Fultz
2. Lakers - Ball
3. Sixers - Smith Jr.
4. Suns - Jackson
5. Kings - Fox
6. Magic - Tatum
7. Wolves - Isaac
8. Knicks - Monk

is what I'd like to see. PHI fans will probably disagree with Smith at 3 but I really don't like Jackson's fit there and just don't like him as a prospect as much as others seem to. And I think Smith could very well end up being the second best player in this draft, although they might be able to trade down for him