The Defense thread 2024 (Final DPOY vote)

FrodoBaggins · Post #21 » by **FrodoBaggins** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 11:21 pm

Victor Wembanyama ON-COURT: 104.8 defensive rating (109 minutes)
Victor Wembanyama OFF-COURT: 128.4 defensive rating (88 minutes)

-23.6 on/off defensive rating

The only other Spurs players who are even remotely close in on/off defensive rating are Tre Jones (-10.5) and Devin Vassell (-9.2). Most of that on/off comes from playing with Wemby. Rudy Gobert's best number was -12.7 in 2021.

2021 Rudy Gobert ON-COURT: 103.7 defensive rating (2188 minutes)
2021 Rudy Gobert OFF-COURT: 116.4 defensive rating (1286 minutes)

-12.7 on/off defensive rating

It's so incredibly early so these numbers will change as the sample size increases. Still, it's going to be fun tracking this stat as the season progresses.

Some notable results from last season...

2023 Anthony Davis ON-COURT: 111.6 defensive rating (1868 minutes)
2023 Anthony Davis OFF-COURT: 117.3 defensive rating (2062 minutes)

-5.7 on/off defensive rating

2023 Brook Lopez ON-COURT: 108.9 defensive rating (2373 minutes)
2023 Brook Lopez OFF-COURT: 117.4 defensive rating (1596 minutes)

-8.5 on/off defensive rating

2023 Jaren Jackson Jr ON-COURT: 109.6 defensive rating (1764 minutes)
2023 Jaren Jackson Jr OFF-COURT: 114.5 defensive rating (2147 minutes)

-4.9 on/off defensive rating

2023 Evan Mobley ON-COURT: 111.4 defensive rating (2718 minutes)
2023 Evan Mobley OFF-COURT: 110.4 defensive rating (1262 minutes)

+1.0 on/off defensive rating

2023 Draymond Green ON-COURT: 111.6 defensive rating (2299 minutes)
2023 Draymond Green OFF-COURT: 118.9 defensive rating (1670 minutes)

-7.3 on/off defensive rating

2023 Rudy Gobert ON-COURT: 112.8 defensive rating (2118 minutes)
2023 Rudy Gobert OFF-COURT: 116.4 defensive rating (1803 minutes)

-3.6 on/off defensive rating

Bornstellar · Post #22 » by **Bornstellar** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 12:35 am

They'll never give it to Wembanyama in his first season but he certainly deserves to be in the conversation. It's already apparent that teams cannot run their offense the same way when he's on the court. He's just so disruptive. Even if he doesn't get a block you can see just how my much of a deterrent he is to anyone trying to get in the paint. And this is only the beginning

Sidthekid87 · Post #23 » by **Sidthekid87** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:08 am

Get Scottie Barnes in this poll. He's been unbelievable to start the year.

ForeverTFC · Post #24 » by **ForeverTFC** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 3:40 am

Giannis today with:
- OG on him for 5:30 match up minutes: 1 for 1 with 2 assists
- Scottie on him for 1:30 match up minutes: 1 for 5 with 0 assists and 1 turnover

OG and Scottie took him out of the game.

PushDaRock · Post #25 » by **PushDaRock** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 3:56 pm

OG Anunoby is the best defender in the NBA. There is nobody else with the same versatility to literally be able to guard any player on the floor and do it at an elite level. He shuts down wings every night but you can also throw him on a quick PG like Morant or dominant big like Jokic and he slows them down too. There's no other player in the league that can do that.

Green89 · Post #26 » by **Green89** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 3:57 pm

KamikazeK wrote:Where's derrick white?

And Jrue.

BadWolf · Post #27 » by **BadWolf** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 3:59 pm

And Gobert

shrink · Post #28 » by **shrink** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 6:45 pm

I think people will be tired of giving Gobert another DPOY award regardless of how well he does, but in the first four games this season he’s back to looking like a monster.

Special_Puppy · Post #29 » by **Special_Puppy** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 7:34 pm

Add Draymond Green and Rudy Gobert

Special_Puppy · Post #30 » by **Special_Puppy** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 7:35 pm

shrink wrote:I think people will be tired of giving Gobert another DPOY award regardless of how well he does, but in the first four games this season he’s back to looking like a monster.

If the Wolves end the season with the best defense in the league (they're number 1 as of now), you really don't think they would give the award to Gobert?

shrink · Post #31 » by **shrink** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 7:48 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:
shrink wrote:I think people will be tired of giving Gobert another DPOY award regardless of how well he does, but in the first four games this season he’s back to looking like a monster.

If the Wolves end the season with the best defense in the league (they're number 1 as of now), you really don't think they would give the award to Gobert?

No. I think voters get tired of giving major awards to the same people, particularly to poorly watched franchises. Last year we saw this with Embiid and Jokic, in what was arguably Jokic’s best season. I think the fact that Embiid was close the previous two years, voters justified Embiid votes saying, “Well, he should have gotten one in the last three years.” We see this same decision-making structure in subjective voting everywhere, like the Academy Awards. While voters should focus on that season, they give credit to nominees who were close in previous years.

I don’t even believe that if Minnesota was the top defense that it would garner an award for any Timberwolf, without being a top winning team. These awards are votes based on narratives, and the Wolves narrative has been ugly for a long time. If they were rolling with a Top Two team in the Western Standings, as well as the top defense, I think Jaden McDaniels might have a chance (again, multi-season strength and an award misser), but even then, I imagine the focus would go to a big name player on a top team. My guess would be Giannis.

EDIT: My guess is now Wemby

Special_Puppy · Post #32 » by **Special_Puppy** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 8:31 pm

shrink wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
shrink wrote:I think people will be tired of giving Gobert another DPOY award regardless of how well he does, but in the first four games this season he’s back to looking like a monster.

If the Wolves end the season with the best defense in the league (they're number 1 as of now), you really don't think they would give the award to Gobert?

No. I think voters get tired of giving major awards to the same people, particularly to poorly watched franchises. Last year we saw this with Embiid and Jokic, in what was arguably Jokic’s best season. I think the fact that Embiid was close the previous two years, voters justified Embiid votes saying, “Well, he should have gotten one in the last three years.” We see this same decision-making structure in subjective voting everywhere, like the Academy Awards. While voters should focus on that season, they give credit to nominees who were close in previous years.

I don’t even believe that if Minnesota was the top defense that it would garner an award for any Timberwolf, without being a top winning team. These awards are votes based on narratives, and the Wolves narrative has been ugly for a long time. If they were rolling with a Top Two team in the Western Standings, as well as the top defense, I think Jaden McDaniels might have a chance (again, multi-season strength and an award misser), but even then, I imagine the focus would go to a big name player on a top team. My guess would be Giannis.

If they have the best defense in the league then they will probably be a top 4 seed in the West based on that alone.

moderndarwin · Post #33 » by **moderndarwin** » Thu Nov 2, 2023 10:03 pm

For anyone that watches games it most clearly is Wemby. He warps that side of the floor amazingly.

Curmudgeon · Post #34 » by **Curmudgeon** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 12:24 am

Green89 wrote:
KamikazeK wrote:Where's derrick white?

And Jrue.

Best defensive backcourt I've seen since Payton and McMillan. And they're pretty good on offense too.

DCasey91 · Post #35 » by **DCasey91** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 12:46 am

PushDaRock wrote:OG Anunoby is the best defender in the NBA. There is nobody else with the same versatility to literally be able to guard any player on the floor and do it at an elite level. He shuts down wings every night but you can also throw him on a quick PG like Morant or dominant big like Jokic and he slows them down too. There's no other player in the league that can do that.

I disagree, players like Giannis/Green and Gobert have massive massive impact (basically the best anchors in the league) but in terms of purely wing defensive qualities he’s among the best.

Wemby’s on court defensive stuff is mind boggling right now. Teams just grind to a halt offensively when he’s on.

Post #36 » by **cupcakesnake** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 12:51 am

Special_Puppy wrote:Add Draymond Green and Rudy Gobert

There's 9 spots in the poll so posts like this need to include who you'd drop.

Special_Puppy · Post #37 » by **Special_Puppy** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 1:54 am

cupcakesnake wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:Add Draymond Green and Rudy Gobert

There's 9 spots in the poll so posts like this need to include who you'd drop.

Anunoby and McDaniels

CIN-C-STAR · Post #38 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 5:53 am

PushDaRock wrote:OG Anunoby is the best defender in the NBA. There is nobody else with the same versatility to literally be able to guard any player on the floor and do it at an elite level. He shuts down wings every night but you can also throw him on a quick PG like Morant or dominant big like Jokic and he slows them down too. There's no other player in the league that can do that.

OG would get cooked guarding Jokic for 32 minutes unless he had Jakob in help position at all times.
He's a great defender but c'mon now. People go crazy with this 1-5 stuff. Im sure he can hold his own on a switch here and there but no way could he guard Jokic for an entire game in their normal scheme.

ropjhk · Post #39 » by **ropjhk** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 6:28 am

OG may be the most versatile on ball defender. Wemby may be the most intimidating roaming help defender. Those two would shut down just about any star in the NBA if they were on the same team.

Sidthekid87 · Post #40 » by **Sidthekid87** » Fri Nov 3, 2023 10:10 am

ropjhk wrote:OG may be the most versatile on ball defender. Wemby may be the most intimidating roaming help defender. Those two would shut down just about any star in the NBA if they were on the same team.

That can possibly happen. Raps need some scoring options from the perimeter. Maybe something along the lines of vasel for og. Would be intriguing.

Who's your 2024 DPOY