Which of these recent players will ultimately rank above Kobe?

[MyTake_1]

Is this serious ?

No it is just there to get on your nerves|

[One_and_Done]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

The poll certainly thinks so. Also Kobe was never near Jordan.

[Optms]

Thread question is entirely diferent than the poll question.

Which player will ultimatrely rank above Kobe? For me only Luka has a chance.

Who I'd rather build around? None of them. Give me Kobe for 15 years. Easy decision.

[Franco]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

Kobe wasn't even the best player in the NBA in 2010.

[One_and_Done]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

Kobe wasn't even the best player in the NBA in 2010.

Kobe wasn't even a top 3 player the year he "won" MVP. KG, CP3 and Lebron at the very least were more deserving.

[One_and_Done]

Thread question is entirely diferent than the poll question.

Which player will ultimatrely rank above Kobe? For me only Luka has a chance.

Who I'd rather build around? None of them. Give me Kobe for 15 years. Easy decision.

Based on the poll this opinion seems to be in the extreme minority. Kobe's record is pretty sketchy in the playoffs, he never won as an underdog and lost repeatedly as an overdog.

[NbaAllDay]

KG is a tough one. Harder to build around a defense juggernaut in today's league imo.

He's also as good a passer or better than any big other than Jokic and perhaps Dray. He had a deadly mid range jump to 20. He also would be if not the best at least on the short list of best rim runners in the league. I'd argue today it's FAR FAR easier to pair KG with an elite offensive guard vs in his day. So while perhaps you can't build around his defense but he'd be pretty easily the best second option in the league and would pair well with virtually any of the plethora of elite offensive guards.

Not interested in debating if KG is better than Kobe. But in terms of unique skills that are HIGHLY valuable today, KG offers more unique skills than Kobe would, and his weaknesses have never been easier to find guys to fill in those gaps.

I don't disgaree. As you said though, he would likely need an elite offensive guard. He isn't a slouch on that end but Jokic is tiers above. It's more adding an additional variable making me slightly more hesitant when I am solely basing off starting with just 1 person (eg KG versus Kobe). Otherwise yes I think his game does transfer even better today.

Giannis offensively is at least a tier above as well (and a juggernaut on D too) - However Giannis also has his limitations on offense that stop him from being as heliocentric as others on this list can be (including Kobe)

[iggymcfrack]

Voted for everyone except Embiid and KD. KG getting so few votes is nuts. His 2004/2008 peak are way better than Kobe’s peak and he has like 5 or 6 more good seasons than Kobe too.

[iggymcfrack]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

Near MJ in 2010???

Kobe wasn’t even close to being the best shooting guard in the league in 2010. You might as well say ANT is near MJ this year since his numbers are about as far behind SGA’s as Kobe’s were behind Wade in 2010

[Bash1676]

[quote="One_and_Done"]Which of these more recent players would you choose to build around over Kobe if you were building a team for today’s league. For me that's the same question as who ranks higher all-time.

Assume you will keep the player for their entire career, and if they're still playing project as needed. I haven't bothered including guys like Lebron, Duncan, Curry, Shaq, etc, because they (rightly) kill him in every poll.[/quote

They will not kill him in the poll. For one,Tim duncan consistently had a better team but never won back to back. Duncan was steady but at no time can you say he was tye best player in the leaque. As great as Curry has been,he has always been a sum of all parts! A great player but was never on the level of kobe. An argument can be made that curry dominated in Lebron’s era and should be above lebron. Everyone ate on Lebron’s watch and he started this whole super team thread that damaged the nba brand .

If you ask me, Giannis Antetokunbo and Jokic's championship are worth more than any ring lebron has ever won. Those 2 championships were not super team gang up.

I see how you lebron fans like to minimize Kobe’s career whenever real players that played the game consistently tell you guys Lebron was never on Kobe’s level.. imagine getting owned by michael beasly in practice.you think beasly would've beaten Jordan and kobe in a pick up game ? Infact it was documented a retired Jordan killed him in a pick up game.The miami team underachieved by winning just 2 rings with 4 all of fame players on the team and in their prime.

Lebron wanted no part of Kevin durant in the 2 finals they faced each other. Durant looked him dead in the eye and dropped multiple 3's on him when it was clear,lebron didn't want to guard durant. He was trying to avoid him. Durant annihilated him in all their matchup. Even when they met in the finals when durant was with the thunder. Westbrook and a young harden lost that series to miami. Durant came to play and he had the wrong point guard in westbrrok who doesn’t complement his game. Durant was never going to win a championship with a point guard like westbrook. Heck,lebron had him and missed the playoffs. I will rate lebrom in the 7 to 12 range but not in top 5. Shouting it and repeating it multiple times by his fan boys in the media doesn’t necessarily make it true balco juice or not.

[lakerz12]

I think Jokić is above Kobe for sure.

All the other guys are below right now. SGA, Giannis maybe could rank above Kobe at the end, but I am not sure about that. Luka is probably the next guy who could actually join Jokić in this debate, but he has a long way to go.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, maybe overall I do NOT think he is overrated, I just think his stans are definitely the most delusional bunch out of the entire sport. But that being said, at the end of the day, Kobe has five NBA championships and was top 3 player in the world for more than a decade, maybe his talent and level could be exceeded, but his actual career most likely wont, for any of these guys not named Jokić.

How is Jokic above Kobe? In terms of overall career?

You said "I think Jokic is above Kobe for sure" and then proceeded to provide 0 explanation or evidence for that statement. .

[durden_tyler]

Some in the list are already above Kobe.

[CodeBreaker]

Jokic and Luka

[One_and_Done]

They will not kill him in the poll. For one,Tim duncan consistently had a better team but never won back to back. Duncan was steady but at no time can you say he was tye best player in the leaque. As great as Curry has been,he has always been a sum of all parts! A great player but was never on the level of kobe. An argument can be made that curry dominated in Lebron’s era and should be above lebron. Everyone ate on Lebron’s watch and he started this whole super team thread that damaged the nba brand .

If you ask me, Giannis Antetokunbo and Jokic's championship are worth more than any ring lebron has ever won. Those 2 championships were not super team gang up.

I see how you lebron fans like to minimize Kobe’s career whenever real players that played the game consistently tell you guys Lebron was never on Kobe’s level.. imagine getting owned by michael beasly in practice.you think beasly would've beaten Jordan and kobe in a pick up game ? Infact it was documented a retired Jordan killed him in a pick up game.The miami team underachieved by winning just 2 rings with 4 all of fame players on the team and in their prime.

Lebron wanted no part of Kevin durant in the 2 finals they faced each other. Durant looked him dead in the eye and dropped multiple 3's on him when it was clear,lebron didn't want to guard durant. He was trying to avoid him. Durant annihilated him in all their matchup. Even when they met in the finals when durant was with the thunder. Westbrook and a young harden lost that series to miami. Durant came to play and he had the wrong point guard in westbrrok who doesn’t complement his game. Durant was never going to win a championship with a point guard like westbrook. Heck,lebron had him and missed the playoffs. I will rate lebrom in the 7 to 12 range but not in top 5. Shouting it and repeating it multiple times by his fan boys in the media doesn’t necessarily make it true balco juice or not.

Dude. Kobe is getting spanked by Giannis and Luka in this poll. How do you think he'll fare vs Duncan, Lebron, etc? There was a Curry vs Kobe thread in the last week or so. Curry destroyed Kobe in the poll. This whole post comes off as very out of touch.

[dhsilv2]

KG is a tough one. Harder to build around a defense juggernaut in today's league imo.

He's also as good a passer or better than any big other than Jokic and perhaps Dray. He had a deadly mid range jump to 20. He also would be if not the best at least on the short list of best rim runners in the league. I'd argue today it's FAR FAR easier to pair KG with an elite offensive guard vs in his day. So while perhaps you can't build around his defense but he'd be pretty easily the best second option in the league and would pair well with virtually any of the plethora of elite offensive guards.

Not interested in debating if KG is better than Kobe. But in terms of unique skills that are HIGHLY valuable today, KG offers more unique skills than Kobe would, and his weaknesses have never been easier to find guys to fill in those gaps.

I don't disgaree. As you said though, he would likely need an elite offensive guard. He isn't a slouch on that end but Jokic is tiers above. It's more adding an additional variable making me slightly more hesitant when I am solely basing off starting with just 1 person (eg KG versus Kobe). Otherwise yes I think his game does transfer even better today.

Giannis offensively is at least a tier above as well (and a juggernaut on D too) - However Giannis also has his limitations on offense that stop him from being as heliocentric as others on this list can be (including Kobe)

Elite might even be going too far. KG just needs a 20+ scoring guard who can play well with KG. There are 20+ guys who would do that in the league today.

That said I'm gonna disagree Giannis is a tier above KG. KG is a much better passer and shooter. Better screener and imo moves better off ball. Giannis is strong and likely better at attack the rim which makes him a better scorer. KG would be a much easier guy to build an elite offense with than Giannis.

While Jokic is just so much better I don't feel we need to discuss him. With anyone else here, KG is imo the clear easier guy to build a team around. All you need is an allstar level guard and right now we have nearly twice as many all star level guards/wings than we have allstar roster spots for. The number of big men who can offer what KG could do is tiny.

[dhsilv2]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

Near MJ in 2010???

Kobe wasn’t even close to being the best shooting guard in the league in 2010. You might as well say ANT is near MJ this year since his numbers are about as far behind SGA’s as Kobe’s were behind Wade in 2010

I'm confident in 2010 Kobe was better than MJ. But MJ had been out of the league for some time.

[One_and_Done]

Is this serious ?

So, basically players with inflated stats and little ( or zero ) championship pedigree can beat one of the top all time players , who was near MJ in 2010 ?

Near MJ in 2010???

Kobe wasn’t even close to being the best shooting guard in the league in 2010. You might as well say ANT is near MJ this year since his numbers are about as far behind SGA’s as Kobe’s were behind Wade in 2010

I'm confident in 2010 Kobe was better than MJ. But MJ had been out of the league for some time.

Kobe was definitely better than a 50 year old MJ in 2010.

[zimpy27]

Jokic

Outside chance for SGA because this season has been a monster from him.

[UcanUwill]

How is Jokic above Kobe? In terms of overall career?

You said "I think Jokic is above Kobe for sure" and then proceeded to provide 0 explanation or evidence for that statement. .

Although I agree Jokić does not have Kobe level success yet, I think at this point he is clearly the better player, and his prime is not short lived, its already been 4 years where he is best player in the world and he is nowhere stopping. It is not Kawhi situation, people could argue Kawhi peaked higher than Kobe, but his peak is like what, half a season long, so most people would never actually rank him above Kobe I imagine. But for me, it would be kind off hard putting Kobe over Jokić now, but I also obviously project a bit with Jokić in advance, I imagine Jokić would need to fall on his face quite hard in these next 10 years to not ultimately surpass Kobe in most people rankings.

Thread question is entirely diferent than the poll question.

Which player will ultimatrely rank above Kobe? For me only Luka has a chance.

Who I'd rather build around? None of them. Give me Kobe for 15 years. Easy decision.

Would you, cause I definitely would not. I can see why OP thinks two questions are the same, but it is really not, because I see this as chaos theory. All these guys careers played out the way it did and it determined their greatness. But if we start over in theoretical scenario, lots of different things can happen. Kobe had probably the greatest career out of all these players, but lots of things quite clearly played out very very well for him and I think slight historical altering could have changed this quite drastically.

Kobe was drafted out of highschool, demands to play for only one team and instantly gets traded on draft night, gets paired with the most dominant basketball player in the world at a time, probably the most dominant basketball player of the last 25 ish years. Gets 3 titles out of that, he is superstar on those teams but it is still ultimately Shaqs MVPs. His clashing personality, that will follow him for the rest of his career, shows its ugly head for the first time, Shaq gets traded. Team sucks for a few years, Kobe demands a trade. But it was time when ownership and offices still has spine and says - Hell no, we pay you, you play for us -. He continues playing, Bynum pick pans out very well, front office pulls a trade for most underrated star in a league, the trade that would have looked like one of the bigger robbery trades ever, if not a throw in name, a chubby second rounder and brother of the star team is trading for, becomes a borderline hall of famer in his own right in the future. Kobe wins another two titles with that team, shutting down the critics who were saying he only had Shaq titles. Despite that, he is the superstar that has one of the worst superstar, finals game 7 performances ever, but team wins that game, so it gets forgotten. Not to mention a very ugly accusation and court case that gets swept under the rug.

Seriously, like LOTS of things played out very well for Kobe at the end, and he had a ton of questionable things that ultimately gets forgotten because things worked out. If I start over, am I taking Kobe, knowing his personality and some things that could happen? I do not know about that. Dirk, obviously not as good a player, not nearly as good of the career, But I could argue, if I take Dirk, that is good and safe bet of having a go to superstar for 10+ years without any interruptions.

Dirk is just one example, you might say Dirk is just not good enough to pass on Kobe, but I then still just take Jokić and start over with him without doubt, Kobe is not the guy I take first here, because of the chaos theory I present. I think it would be insane gamble and my odds of Kobe having just as successful career a second time, is rather very low honestly.

[lobosloboslobos]

Don't know how more people don't vote Kawhi. Yes his career will go down as very marred by injuries but when he is healthy he has a case for one of the best 2-way players ever. His scoring efficiency is waaay better than Kobe's (he's shooting 53/42/89 this year) and he is at least as clutch. Plus I'd say there aren't any better defenders than him on that list, though you could make a case for Giannis or KG.

Fore sure Kobe had far more longevity and I get that for a lot of people that is a defining factor, but it's not like Kawhi doesn't have a solid resume despite his injuries, with 2 FMVPs and 2 DPOYs. Personally I'd take a healthy Kawhi over Kobe. Am I the only one?