The amount of talent in the league today is absurd

[The Corey's]

Ask KG which defence is tougher to play; today or the 90s. Hint; it's not the 90s.

What does that mean dude? The defense today is unacceptable.

Your point is a whole different argument.

Today's D is far harder to execute and more draining on the players, as is today's offence. If you're looking for more cheap shots with no consequences then yeh, you're watching the wrong era. I can't say I share your nostalgia.

You're not watching NBA ball if you think what you're seeing is acceptable defense.

Harder and more draining to execute? What numbers are you using to back up this claim? Scoring is up. It's way up.

That doesn't make sense if the players are playing harder defense and executing better than ever.

[One_and_Done]

What does that mean dude? The defense today is unacceptable.

Your point is a whole different argument.

Today's D is far harder to execute and more draining on the players, as is today's offence. If you're looking for more cheap shots with no consequences then yeh, you're watching the wrong era. I can't say I share your nostalgia.

You're not watching NBA ball if you think what you're seeing is acceptable defense.

Harder and more draining to execute? What numbers are you using to back up this claim? Scoring is up. It's way up.

That doesn't make sense if the players are playing harder defense and executing better than ever.

I'll let KG summarise a topic I've discussed to death already:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/08/magazine/kevin-garnett-interview.html?

The game is at another level. I know you said that you made the team with Vancouver, but I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don’t think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game

[The Corey's]

Today's D is far harder to execute and more draining on the players, as is today's offence. If you're looking for more cheap shots with no consequences then yeh, you're watching the wrong era. I can't say I share your nostalgia.

You're not watching NBA ball if you think what you're seeing is acceptable defense.

Harder and more draining to execute? What numbers are you using to back up this claim? Scoring is up. It's way up.

That doesn't make sense if the players are playing harder defense and executing better than ever.

I'll let KG summarise a topic I've discussed to death already:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/08/magazine/kevin-garnett-interview.html?

The game is at another level. I know you said that you made the team with Vancouver, but I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don’t think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game

So you got nothing but what KG says?

So because the athletes are world class condition they're playing great defense?

Lol ok.

There is no statical evidence to back up that the players are playing the best defense in NBA history or close to it.

This isn't about if they played better in the 90s.

No one is actually out here looking at the NBA as a place where players are giving their all. They're just out here jacking 3s.

But sure. KG knows it all.

[One_and_Done]

You're not watching NBA ball if you think what you're seeing is acceptable defense.

Harder and more draining to execute? What numbers are you using to back up this claim? Scoring is up. It's way up.

That doesn't make sense if the players are playing harder defense and executing better than ever.

I'll let KG summarise a topic I've discussed to death already:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/08/magazine/kevin-garnett-interview.html?

The game is at another level. I know you said that you made the team with Vancouver, but I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don’t think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game

So you got nothing but what KG says?

So because the athletes are world class condition they're playing great defense?

Lol ok.

There is no statical evidence to back up that the players are playing the best defense in NBA history or close to it.

This isn't about if they played better in the 90s.

No one is actually out here looking at the NBA as a place where players are giving their all. They're just out here jacking 3s.

But sure. KG knows it all.

Try watching a 90s game. Guys are mostly standing around watching while one guy pounds it into the ground for a slow iso. Today teams will draw you out for multiple pick and roll actions on the perimeter where you have to switch and move from one side of the court to the other, and you do this play after play. It's far more physically exhausting.

[The Corey's]

I'll let KG summarise a topic I've discussed to death already:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/08/magazine/kevin-garnett-interview.html?

So you got nothing but what KG says?

So because the athletes are world class condition they're playing great defense?

Lol ok.

There is no statical evidence to back up that the players are playing the best defense in NBA history or close to it.

This isn't about if they played better in the 90s.

No one is actually out here looking at the NBA as a place where players are giving their all. They're just out here jacking 3s.

But sure. KG knows it all.

Try watching a 90s game. Guys are mostly standing around watching while one guy pounds it into the ground for a slow iso. Today teams will draw you out for multiple pick and roll actions on the perimeter where you have to switch and move from one side of the court to the other, and you do this play after play. It's far more physically exhausting.

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

[Jabroni Lames]

MJ, Bird, Magic and all those old heads who played way back then had it so easy.... dominating against plumbers and firemen.

[One_and_Done]

So you got nothing but what KG says?

So because the athletes are world class condition they're playing great defense?

Lol ok.

There is no statical evidence to back up that the players are playing the best defense in NBA history or close to it.

This isn't about if they played better in the 90s.

No one is actually out here looking at the NBA as a place where players are giving their all. They're just out here jacking 3s.

But sure. KG knows it all.

Try watching a 90s game. Guys are mostly standing around watching while one guy pounds it into the ground for a slow iso. Today teams will draw you out for multiple pick and roll actions on the perimeter where you have to switch and move from one side of the court to the other, and you do this play after play. It's far more physically exhausting.

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

Your definition of good defence is bad defence today; teams would be killed if they tried to play 90s style D. So you want teams to play bad D, because of the illusion that it was "tougher"?

[BloodNinja]

MJ, Bird, Magic and all those old heads who played way back then had it so easy.... dominating against plumbers and firemen.

Hey you have to be fit to be a fireman unlike these cheeto dust fornite players sitting at their playstation all day.

[Johnny Bball]

Try watching a 90s game. Guys are mostly standing around watching while one guy pounds it into the ground for a slow iso. Today teams will draw you out for multiple pick and roll actions on the perimeter where you have to switch and move from one side of the court to the other, and you do this play after play. It's far more physically exhausting.

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

Your definition of good defence is bad defence today; teams would be killed if they tried to play 90s style D. So you want teams to play bad D, because of the illusion that it was "tougher"?

There is barely any defence allowed under these rules. Wtf are you talking about

[The Corey's]

Try watching a 90s game. Guys are mostly standing around watching while one guy pounds it into the ground for a slow iso. Today teams will draw you out for multiple pick and roll actions on the perimeter where you have to switch and move from one side of the court to the other, and you do this play after play. It's far more physically exhausting.

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

Your definition of good defence is bad defence today; teams would be killed if they tried to play 90s style D. So you want teams to play bad D, because of the illusion that it was "tougher"?

My position is clear. I don't think the defense in the current NBA is any good and the numbers offensively support it.

Yours is also clear. That they exert more energy and effort than ever before running schemes that previous generations couldn't even dream of and thus this somehow equates to good defense.

Teams are averaging more points than ever before. It doesn't really jive with the idea that teams are also playing the best defense.

[DOT]

People just look at raw ppg and assume that it's a lack of effort on defense

There's a lot of reasons for it, and yes a lot of it is due to rule changes, but anyone who watches basketball and goes "players don't play defense today" either isn't actually watching the games or doesn't understand what they're seeing, they just see big numbers and assume it's because nobody plays defense

Even if you reverted back all the rules, not much would change because when you actually go back and watch old games it's abundantly clear how much of the lower scoring was due to having multiple guys who were just straight up not threats to score

Defenses today have to deal with more complex offenses, more emphasis on spacing, and more restrictions from the rules than they did 20, 30 years ago

But boomers just look at the points scored and their hazy memories of games they might have watched 30 years ago and decree that no defense is being played today

And the people who are the loudest whining about bringing back physicality are the first to scream bloody murder when their players don't get calls for light contact

[Heej]

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BRING BACK DEFENSE

Bring It back to the way It use to be

Defence is more physically taxing today anyway, it just doesn't involve as many elbows.

Congratulations. You're the only person on earth who thinks NBA players are playing acceptable defense.

You guys always cry like this and then promptly shut the f*** up when playoffs start because all you casuals remember that guys and offensive schemes are too good now to shut down without highly specialized and practiced defensive gameplans.

If anything you geniuses should be crying that NBA teams bring back practicing more, but that would require NBA games to go back to 90s style where people without the ball stood around doing nothing most of the time and didn't accumulate real tread on their tires during then regular season. Because no humans (even with designer steroids) could sustain a real regimented old school practice schedule AND cover the ground necessary in modern NBA games to handle more than 50 or 60 games in a season.

Gonna be funny seeing his silent these takes get in the playoffs where it's a whole new game.

[LockoutSeason]

Bring back hand checking? What’s that going to do?

This Is an oldie, but still a goodie and makes me laugh every time

Edit: Can't do this anymore unless you're Draymond maybe

Watch on YouTube

This also made me laugh when it was throughouly debunked.

Watch on YouTube

[The Corey's]

Defence is more physically taxing today anyway, it just doesn't involve as many elbows.

Congratulations. You're the only person on earth who thinks NBA players are playing acceptable defense.

You guys always cry like this and then promptly shut the f*** up when playoffs start because all you casuals remember that guys and offensive schemes are too good now to shut down without highly specialized and practiced defensive gameplans.

If anything you geniuses should be crying that NBA teams bring back practicing more, but that would require NBA games to go back to 90s style where people without the ball stood around doing nothing most of the time and didn't accumulate real tread on their tires during then regular season. Because no humans (even with designer steroids) could sustain a real regimented old school practice schedule AND cover the ground necessary in modern NBA games to handle more than 50 or 60 games in a season.

Gonna be funny seeing his silent these takes get in the playoffs where it's a whole new game.

You're now the second person on earth who think the NBA is full of defensive effort.

Feel free to show us the stats that back up this load of conjecture.

[Heej]

Congratulations. You're the only person on earth who thinks NBA players are playing acceptable defense.

You guys always cry like this and then promptly shut the f*** up when playoffs start because all you casuals remember that guys and offensive schemes are too good now to shut down without highly specialized and practiced defensive gameplans.

If anything you geniuses should be crying that NBA teams bring back practicing more, but that would require NBA games to go back to 90s style where people without the ball stood around doing nothing most of the time and didn't accumulate real tread on their tires during then regular season. Because no humans (even with designer steroids) could sustain a real regimented old school practice schedule AND cover the ground necessary in modern NBA games to handle more than 50 or 60 games in a season.

Gonna be funny seeing his silent these takes get in the playoffs where it's a whole new game.

You're now the second person on earth who think the NBA is full of defensive effort.

Feel free to show us the stats that back up this load of conjecture.

Go look at the drastic dropoff on offenses in the playoffs overall nowadays and get back to me. There's plenty of nights when teams are dogging it and playing base defensive packages, and there's plenty of nights where teams with history are going at it and have more specialized scouting reports for the game.

I don't particularly care about the regular season anymore just with how degenerate basketball discourse has become, and now teams hold off their best stuff until playoffs anyway.

[life_saver]

People in this thread who think players today barely play defense are absolutely not watching games.

[FreeBird23]

Most boring era ever.

[DaPessimist]

The talent level is immense. As others have said, I think the league is in a good position to expand.

[One_and_Done]

That doesn't mean that players today are playing good defense. They're not. They're barely doing anything at all.

Your definition of good defence is bad defence today; teams would be killed if they tried to play 90s style D. So you want teams to play bad D, because of the illusion that it was "tougher"?

My position is clear. I don't think the defense in the current NBA is any good and the numbers offensively support it.

Yours is also clear. That they exert more energy and effort than ever before running schemes that previous generations couldn't even dream of and thus this somehow equates to good defense.

Teams are averaging more points than ever before. It doesn't really jive with the idea that teams are also playing the best defense.

I mean, it's a fallcy to think greater offense today has to mean nobpdy is playing D. What it might mean is that teams play much better offence, which no defence could stop. If teams want to play 90s D they're basically able to. They won't be able to handcheck, but on the other side of the coin they aren't constrained by illegal D rules.

If a team tried to play this way they would be the worst team in the league, because offense today is too efficient to stand around in the paint and watch as 1 guy isos. Today's offensive schemes require a far greater level of energy to eve partly slow down.. and no, you can't slow it that much, but you slow it exponentially more than if you tried to use 90s personnel and tactics. The Pacers would average 200 points a game against alot of 90 defences.

[The Corey's]

You guys always cry like this and then promptly shut the f*** up when playoffs start because all you casuals remember that guys and offensive schemes are too good now to shut down without highly specialized and practiced defensive gameplans.

If anything you geniuses should be crying that NBA teams bring back practicing more, but that would require NBA games to go back to 90s style where people without the ball stood around doing nothing most of the time and didn't accumulate real tread on their tires during then regular season. Because no humans (even with designer steroids) could sustain a real regimented old school practice schedule AND cover the ground necessary in modern NBA games to handle more than 50 or 60 games in a season.

Gonna be funny seeing his silent these takes get in the playoffs where it's a whole new game.

You're now the second person on earth who think the NBA is full of defensive effort.

Feel free to show us the stats that back up this load of conjecture.

Go look at the drastic dropoff on offenses in the playoffs overall nowadays and get back to me. There's plenty of nights when teams are dogging it and playing base defensive packages, and there's plenty of nights where teams with history are going at it and have more specialized scouting reports for the game.

I don't particularly care about the regular season anymore just with how degenerate basketball discourse has become, and now teams hold off their best stuff until playoffs anyway.

Your entire point is that the players don't play defense in the regular season but at least they try in the playoffs.


That helps my point way more than it does whatever point you're trying to make.