Jokic is NOT him

[TheGeneral99]

Those are facts though. Jokic hasn't beaten great teams in the playoffs. He's tied 2-2 with Minnesota, congratulations.

Embiid has been injured, almost every playoffs. It's a knock on him. For the millionth time, I'm not an embiid or Harden fan, simply made my screen name as an OKC fan in 2012 predicting Harden would be an Allstar in 2013. He was, and went on to win numerous scoring titles and made hoston one of the best teams in the league in his prime.

You have to realize I'm not comparing Jokic to Embiid, Giannis, or anyone else when I argue against him. I don't think any of those guys are all time greats. I compare his series wins vs those of the all timers like Lebron/MJ/Shaq who he is regularly compared to on this board. And his resume of beating quality teams falls well short in that department. I've said all year if Denver beats Boston this year I'd begin to look at it differently, and I will. I've heard all the times people give him credit because he hasn't had an all star. But his roster is loaded, while teams with multiple all stars and lots of roster holes continue to struggle.

He had a great game last night, have your moment. He may get that first series win vs. a 50 win team.

This is just crazy:

2020 - Nuggets beat a healthy Clippers team with Kawhi and George (2nd seed on pace to win 55+ games in a shortened season).
2021 - Murray missed the playoffs (lost to Suns who made the finals)
2022 - Murray missed the playoffs (lost to Warriors who won the chip).
2023 - Nuggets beat an up and coming Minnesota team, a Suns team with Durant and Booker, the Lakers with a healthy AD and Lebron, and the Eastern Conference champion Heat in a 4-1 domination.
2024 - Nuggets beat the Lakers with a healthy AD and Lebron.

And in the past two years the Nuggets weren't just beating teams, they were destroying teams.

Why are you devaluing Minnesota? They were tied for the best record in the West, have a budding MVP caliber superstar in Edwards, the DPOY in Gobert and another all-star in Towns. It's a great team.

I'm not devaluing Minnesota, this season, at all. Last year they weren't up and coming, they were a .500 team all season and playing without several key role players. The Suns did have Booker and KD. They also stunk, and struggled each game vs. The Westbrook led Clippers. They had no bench and were starting Josh Okogie and Cam Payne. For LA, healthy Lebron and AD isn't what it used to be. This is extremely clear. The Heat were an 8 seed, and not playing at nearly the same level as earlier in those playoffs by the time they reached the finals, which again was crystal clear if you saw the previous rounds.

Jokic can be great and the path also extremely unimpressive last year at the same time. I'm not sure why that's so controversial?

You have an excuse for everything.

Lebron had easy pathways to the finals in the East for majority of the decade in the 2010s.

The Warriors benefitted from KD rigging the league to create the most dominant super team ever. Even the Warriors in 2015 benefitted from injuries to Memphis, Clippers and then Kyrie and Love in the finals. The Cavs benefitted from Bogut getting hurt and Draymond getting suspended. The Raptors benefitted from the KD injury in the finals. The Suns in 2021 benefitted from Kawhi being injured.

We can play this game with every single team every year.

Jokic doesn't even have an all-star playing next to him unlike every other finals MVP in the past few decades with the exception of the Dirk 2011 Mavs.

[AleksandarN]

Take the L here, don't get to do the 'in my defense' thing when you're defending overreacting. If the title was 'Jokic doesn't look good the last couple games--I'm concerned' that's defensible but you went for 'Jokic is NOT him.'

I am not taking the l. Jokic did not play up to his standards as the best player on the planet. No one is above reproach. He was not playing like him the first two games. He stepped it up to his all world potential. Look I have been on this Jokic train way before most of you guys. He is my favorite player on my favorite team. I hold him to standards of the best player of his generation and when he is not playing like it I will call it out. One thing I will take responsibility for is the click bait title though . But what I said in this thread was true.

Guess this is a dumb thing to argue about but if your thread was 'he's not playing that well in two games, I'm concerned' it wouldn't be this thread. A big majority of the comments are about the 'not him' part, title absolutely opened up the door to a discussion about his whole career and whether he's a fraud. And that's what this thread mostly became.

I swear I didn’t create the tittle of the thread knowing that posters will come out of the woodwork to troll Jokic. In essence expose how bad their takes would be in the thread. If you look at my actual posts in the thread you will see I didn’t say he was not him. He just played like it.

[AleksandarN]

According to you - your favorite player isn't "him" because he had 2 "bad" games- posting;

32/9/8/ 3 steals
16/16/8


"well i should have been more reasonable in my thread titl-" yes and you should be ashamed.

So Jokic didn’t play bad the first two games?

He played below his insane GOAT-level standards.

Now, I'm not a zoomer so all this "he him" nonsense is arcane to me but I've managed to determine it means the player is elite and capable of carrying a team to huge wins and clutch shots.

Your thread title is "Jokic is not him" that would lead a simple man like myself to believe you think Jokic is not the aforementioned glowing positives. I take umbrage with that idiocy.

If you did not mean to suggest that - despite your thread title stating exactly that, then you should beg forgiveness for titling your thread an obvious falsehood.

Why do you think I created the title? Look what I posted in the actual thread.

[AleksandarN]

This is just crazy:

2020 - Nuggets beat a healthy Clippers team with Kawhi and George (2nd seed on pace to win 55+ games in a shortened season).
2021 - Murray missed the playoffs (lost to Suns who made the finals)
2022 - Murray missed the playoffs (lost to Warriors who won the chip).
2023 - Nuggets beat an up and coming Minnesota team, a Suns team with Durant and Booker, the Lakers with a healthy AD and Lebron, and the Eastern Conference champion Heat in a 4-1 domination.
2024 - Nuggets beat the Lakers with a healthy AD and Lebron.

And in the past two years the Nuggets weren't just beating teams, they were destroying teams.

Why are you devaluing Minnesota? They were tied for the best record in the West, have a budding MVP caliber superstar in Edwards, the DPOY in Gobert and another all-star in Towns. It's a great team.

I'm not devaluing Minnesota, this season, at all. Last year they weren't up and coming, they were a .500 team all season and playing without several key role players. The Suns did have Booker and KD. They also stunk, and struggled each game vs. The Westbrook led Clippers. They had no bench and were starting Josh Okogie and Cam Payne. For LA, healthy Lebron and AD isn't what it used to be. This is extremely clear. The Heat were an 8 seed, and not playing at nearly the same level as earlier in those playoffs by the time they reached the finals, which again was crystal clear if you saw the previous rounds.

Jokic can be great and the path also extremely unimpressive last year at the same time. I'm not sure why that's so controversial?

You have an excuse for everything.

Lebron had easy pathways to the finals in the East for majority of the decade in the 2010s.

The Warriors benefitted from KD rigging the league to create the most dominant super team ever. Even the Warriors in 2015 benefitted from injuries to Memphis, Clippers and then Kyrie and Love in the finals. The Cavs benefitted from Bogut getting hurt and Draymond getting suspended. The Raptors benefitted from the KD injury in the finals. The Suns in 2021 benefitted from Kawhi being injured.

We can play this game with every single team every year.

Jokic doesn't even have an all-star playing next to him unlike every other finals MVP in the past few decades with the exception of the Dirk 2011 Mavs.

You can tell he wants Jokic to fail. And when he fails to he will try to diminish Jokic’s accomplishments. Look at his posts from last year before jokic won it all. It is sad.

[AleksandarN]

They are good but not great. I don't think anyone is ready to call this wolves team a great team. So where does that leave this Nuggets team?

The wolves are playing great. They are great. Without KAT missing almost half a season they still managed to win 55 games out west. 55 games.

KAT played 62 games this season..That's a quarter of a season. Still a good chunk, but not anywhere near half.

My bad I thought he misses more. I was wrong. I will take an L on that part.

[AleksandarN]

They are good but not great. I don't think anyone is ready to call this wolves team a great team. So where does that leave this Nuggets team?

The wolves are playing great. They are great. Without KAT missing almost half a season they still managed to win 55 games out west. 55 games.

KAT played 62 games this season..That's a quarter of a season. Still a good chunk, but not anywhere near half.

My bad I thought he misses more. I was wrong. I will take an L on that part. I respect ANT so much. My favorite non Nugget player in the NBA. Love his game

[WentzerWuver]

He is playing like it this series. We can talk about all of the injuries and not having an Allstar teammate but the problem is that he is not stepping up. This is the worst series I seen him play. He seems like he doesn’t care. He has no drive. Not aggressive at all on both ends of the floor. He has poor body language.

Yet he just won his 3rd MVP plus a FMVP so you are likely a hater, simple as that.

[ShootersShoot]

The wolves are playing great. They are great. Without KAT missing almost half a season they still managed to win 55 games out west. 55 games.

KAT played 62 games this season..That's a quarter of a season. Still a good chunk, but not anywhere near half.

My bad I thought he misses more. I was wrong. I will take an L on that part.

56 wins is still an impressive accomplishment with KAT missing 20 games, but yea all other starters played at least 70 games and Naz played 81.

[ohmuri]

You have an excuse for everything.

Lebron had easy pathways to the finals in the East for majority of the decade in the 2010s.

The Warriors benefitted from KD rigging the league to create the most dominant super team ever. Even the Warriors in 2015 benefitted from injuries to Memphis, Clippers and then Kyrie and Love in the finals. The Cavs benefitted from Bogut getting hurt and Draymond getting suspended. The Raptors benefitted from the KD injury in the finals. The Suns in 2021 benefitted from Kawhi being injured.

We can play this game with every single team every year.

Jokic doesn't even have an all-star playing next to him unlike every other finals MVP in the past few decades with the exception of the Dirk 2011 Mavs.

It's funny the "I'm not giving him any credit if he doesn't beat the Celtics" part. People here arguing about a near future with the guy being 3-time MVP and back to back champion but still unworthy if is not Celtics in the finals, lol.

[WentzerWuver]

The wolves are playing great. They are great. Without KAT missing almost half a season they still managed to win 55 games out west. 55 games.

KAT played 62 games this season..That's a quarter of a season. Still a good chunk, but not anywhere near half.

My bad I thought he misses more. I was wrong. I will take an L on that part. I respect ANT so much. My favorite non Nugget player in the NBA. Love his game

Oh, you are an ANT lover, but still doesn't treat Joker like you had. I'm glad your lover isn't on my team cause he trash talk to superstars without winning anything yet other than an all-star appearance.

KD won alot of hardware plus 2 FMVP to be able to talk trash but not ANT yet.

[AleksandarN]

He is playing like it this series. We can talk about all of the injuries and not having an Allstar teammate but the problem is that he is not stepping up. This is the worst series I seen him play. He seems like he doesn’t care. He has no drive. Not aggressive at all on both ends of the floor. He has poor body language.

Yet he just won his 3rd MVP plus a FMVP so you are likely a hater, simple as that.

I am a Jokic hater lol really look at my posting history since Jokic came into the league. I am probably his biggest supporter. But I also can identify when Jokic doesn’t play to his standards of the best player of this generation. In the first two games he didn’t. I have no problem criticizing or praising his play

[AleksandarN]

KAT played 62 games this season..That's a quarter of a season. Still a good chunk, but not anywhere near half.

My bad I thought he misses more. I was wrong. I will take an L on that part. I respect ANT so much. My favorite non Nugget player in the NBA. Love his game

Oh, you are an ANT lover, but still doesn't treat Joker like you had. I'm glad your lover isn't on my team cause he trash talk to superstars without winning anything yet other than an all-star appearance.

KD won alot of hardware plus 2 FMVP to be able to talk trash but not ANT yet.

You do know Jokic is my favorite player right?

[hardenASG13]

You want Jokic to fail so bad
It is sad. What’s worse when he doesn’t fail you try to diminish his accomplishments all because you hate how some basketball fans you think overrate Jokic. It is pretty sad. Bro it is bad

The only sad thing is starting a thread saying Jokic is NOT him after he loses two games in a row, then acting like you believed in him all along two games later. Comment on what I post or move on. I've stated in this very post I'd begin to shift my thinking on Jokic if he and Denver beat the Celtics. He doesn't have many quality wins to date. That's about as objective as it gets, bruh.

Ok then actually directly quote my posts in this thread then. Point out where I was wrong. I have no problem defending anything I have said. So do it bro.

Well, you started a thread saying Jokic is NOT him. Were you right about that? Yes you pointed out he needed to play better, a fact that couldn't have been more obvious, to anyone. Bravo! But calling me out after game 4, stating "where's hardenASG13 at?" after you started this thread is just pathetic and embarrassing. You cant start a thread with this title and then act like it didn't happen 2 games later. It's here for everyone to see.

[hardenASG13]

I'm not devaluing Minnesota, this season, at all. Last year they weren't up and coming, they were a .500 team all season and playing without several key role players. The Suns did have Booker and KD. They also stunk, and struggled each game vs. The Westbrook led Clippers. They had no bench and were starting Josh Okogie and Cam Payne. For LA, healthy Lebron and AD isn't what it used to be. This is extremely clear. The Heat were an 8 seed, and not playing at nearly the same level as earlier in those playoffs by the time they reached the finals, which again was crystal clear if you saw the previous rounds.

Jokic can be great and the path also extremely unimpressive last year at the same time. I'm not sure why that's so controversial?

You have an excuse for everything.

Lebron had easy pathways to the finals in the East for majority of the decade in the 2010s.

The Warriors benefitted from KD rigging the league to create the most dominant super team ever. Even the Warriors in 2015 benefitted from injuries to Memphis, Clippers and then Kyrie and Love in the finals. The Cavs benefitted from Bogut getting hurt and Draymond getting suspended. The Raptors benefitted from the KD injury in the finals. The Suns in 2021 benefitted from Kawhi being injured.

We can play this game with every single team every year.

Jokic doesn't even have an all-star playing next to him unlike every other finals MVP in the past few decades with the exception of the Dirk 2011 Mavs.

You can tell he wants Jokic to fail. And when he fails to he will try to diminish Jokic’s accomplishments. Look at his posts from last year before jokic won it all. It is sad.

Look at your posts from a week ago......YOU started this thread!

[AleksandarN]

The only sad thing is starting a thread saying Jokic is NOT him after he loses two games in a row, then acting like you believed in him all along two games later. Comment on what I post or move on. I've stated in this very post I'd begin to shift my thinking on Jokic if he and Denver beat the Celtics. He doesn't have many quality wins to date. That's about as objective as it gets, bruh.

Ok then actually directly quote my posts in this thread then. Point out where I was wrong. I have no problem defending anything I have said. So do it bro.

Well, you started a thread saying Jokic is NOT him. Were you right about that? Yes you pointed out he needed to play better, a fact that couldn't have been more obvious, to anyone. Bravo! But calling me out after game 4, stating "where's hardenASG13 at?" after you started this thread is just pathetic and embarrassing. You cant start a thread with this title and then act like it didn't happen 2 games later. It's here for everyone to see.

Quote my actually posts bro. You didn’t because you know you won’t have a point. Ask yourself why I titled the thread the way I did.

[Woodsanity]

Jokic really only had one bad game but in that game Jamal Murray went 3-18 so its not like it would have mattered if he played well anyway. It was a clear loss no matter what.

Actually both games Jokic didn’t play well on both sides of the court.

He was "ok" game 1. Worse than his normal but thats only because his normal is so high.

[AleksandarN]

You have an excuse for everything.

Lebron had easy pathways to the finals in the East for majority of the decade in the 2010s.

The Warriors benefitted from KD rigging the league to create the most dominant super team ever. Even the Warriors in 2015 benefitted from injuries to Memphis, Clippers and then Kyrie and Love in the finals. The Cavs benefitted from Bogut getting hurt and Draymond getting suspended. The Raptors benefitted from the KD injury in the finals. The Suns in 2021 benefitted from Kawhi being injured.

We can play this game with every single team every year.

Jokic doesn't even have an all-star playing next to him unlike every other finals MVP in the past few decades with the exception of the Dirk 2011 Mavs.

You can tell he wants Jokic to fail. And when he fails to he will try to diminish Jokic’s accomplishments. Look at his posts from last year before jokic won it all. It is sad.

Look at your posts from a week ago......YOU started this thread!

What I said about you is 100 percent the truth. You wanted jokic to fail and once he didn’t you try to diminish his accomplishments. Deflect all you want doesn’t discount what you are trying to do bud. You are so transparent. Easy to be exposed

[hardenASG13]

He is playing like it this series. We can talk about all of the injuries and not having an Allstar teammate but the problem is that he is not stepping up. This is the worst series I seen him play. He seems like he doesn’t care. He has no drive. Not aggressive at all on both ends of the floor. He has poor body language.

Here's your quote. Of course that isn't wrong. Anyone could see that. So what was the point of this thread and title.

What's funny and sad is you say I'm waiting for a chance to diminish him at any opportunity I get. What do you think this thread, that you created is haha? This is truly remarkable, that your on some I believed in him all along **** today after you did this a week ago. You bailed at the first sign of trouble, and are embarrassed about it. I get it!

[AleksandarN]

He is playing like it this series. We can talk about all of the injuries and not having an Allstar teammate but the problem is that he is not stepping up. This is the worst series I seen him play. He seems like he doesn’t care. He has no drive. Not aggressive at all on both ends of the floor. He has poor body language.

Here's your quote. Of course that isn't wrong. Anyone could see that. So what was the point of this thread and title.

What's funny and sad is you say I'm waiting for a chance to diminish him at any opportunity I get. What do you think this thread, that you created is haha? This is truly remarkable, that your on some I believed in him all along **** today after you did this a week ago. You bailed at the first sign of trouble, and are embarrassed about it. I get it!

The point of the title is to expose the posters who I knew would post in this thread. Just look at some of the posts in this thread. Easy work

[tsherkin]

Actually no I didn’t I called out his play.

But unequivocally, that's exactly what you did with your thread title. You don't seem to enjoy the result of doing so and being made to look foolish as a result, but that's objectively what you actually did.

Unlike some fans I can call out my favorite player when they played bad.

But that isn't what you did. You took a stance and made a fairly specific, strong statement, based on two games.