Main reason Jordan is the GOAT

[knicksNOTslick]

To take a different tact; the numbers all back up that Giannis is the modern Shaq. He has 2pt efficiency on high volume, at a level that frankly blows what Jordan did away. Even if we granted Jordan would be incredible today, it's hard to credit he could be the 2pt wrecking ball Giannis is.

But for the sake of argument let's say Jordan could match Giannis on offense (a pretty bold claim when you consider their per 100 stats). Prime Giannis combines that Shaq like offensive dominance with a top level defensive anchor on the other end, in fact Giannis is arguably even more impactful on D than O. Jordan was a nice wing defender in his bygone era of iso ball, but he can't remotely compete with that package. So then what would Jordan's argument even be vs Giannis. I struggle to see it.

Easy. If we're playing all these what ifs, Jordan has superior footwork in an era that allowed a lot less travels, and 50% of the time, Giannis travels when he drives. Extra steps and everything. If we give Jordan the license to travel like half the league, Jordan would average 40 points. He is superior on offense. A deadly midrange game from Jordan and you have a hard time guessing when he'll pull up. Allow him to take all these extra steps, Euro steps and stepbacks, and now he has an added advantage.

Giannis can have the edge on defense but there are great defenders today who are not close to the athletic freak that Giannis is. Like Alex Caruso and Jrue Holiday, great defensive guards with great impact.

Today's game is different than the 90s but they have also relaxed the rules to ramp up the offense. Jordan would do great in today's game.


Also, Giannis lost to Jimmy Butler's Heat team as the heavy favorites in the playoffs so don't give me this Giannis is a superior player BS. And Jordan is so much better than Butler.

[Jta444]

To take a different tact; the numbers all back up that Giannis is the modern Shaq. He has 2pt efficiency on high volume, at a level that frankly blows what Jordan did away. Even if we granted Jordan would be incredible today, it's hard to credit he could be the 2pt wrecking ball Giannis is.

But for the sake of argument let's say Jordan could match Giannis on offense (a pretty bold claim when you consider their per 100 stats). Prime Giannis combines that Shaq like offensive dominance with a top level defensive anchor on the other end, in fact Giannis is arguably even more impactful on D than O. Jordan was a nice wing defender in his bygone era of iso ball, but he can't remotely compete with that package. So then what would Jordan's argument even be vs Giannis. I struggle to see it.

Easy. If we're playing all these what ifs, Jordan has superior footwork in an era that allowed a lot less travels, and 50% of the time, Giannis travels when he drives. Extra steps and everything. If we give Jordan the license to travel like half the league, Jordan would average 40 points. He is superior on offense. A deadly midrange game from Jordan and you have a hard time guessing when he'll pull up. Allow him to take all these extra steps, Euro steps and stepbacks, and now he has an added advantage.

Giannis can have the edge on defense but there are great defenders today who are not close to the athletic freak that Giannis is. Like Alex Caruso and Jrue Holiday, great defensive guards with great impact.

Today's game is different than the 90s but they have also relaxed the rules to ramp up the offense. Jordan would do great in today's game.


Also, Giannis lost to Jimmy Butler's Heat team as the heavy favorites in the playoffs so don't give me this Giannis is a superior player BS. And Jordan is so much better than Butler.

Not only relaxed traveling rules but relaxed palming/carrying/double dribble rules you see it on every player Lebron Kyrie Chris Paul benefiting from it now imagine Jordan with his baseball glove mitts he can move even easier with the ball combined with his lightning quick step no doubt he’ll average 40 in today’s game.

[One_and_Done]

Yeh I disagree for the reasons I explained already.

[TheGOATRises007]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

[One_and_Done]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

[michaelm]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

Or perhaps he became MICHAEL JORDAN by being fairly good.

[michaelm]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

Or perhaps he became MICHAEL JORDAN by being fairly good.

[Gregoire]

Main reason is simple: he played basketball better than any other man who existed on Earth.

More complicated: If you need one player in his best form (peak) to lead team Earth and play aliens for our lives.. it would be MJ.
In more often than not scenarios with random teams he would be more impactful than any other player to this moment.

[Wolveswin]

Didn’t get one answer to this in James thread…

So, let’s say James and Jordan played together during their respective peaks. Magically right.

Now on the same team, during their peaks playing for Bulls, Jordan would be Jordan role (without a doubt). James would be Pippen role (without a doubt). Or in James era…

Now on the same team, during their peaks playing for Heat, Jordan would be James role (without a doubt). James would be Bosh role (without a doubt). Or in other words…

Now on the same team, during their peaks playing for Lakers, Jordan would be James role (without a doubt). James would be Davis role (without a doubt).

So, how does James become GOAT when never the best player on his own teams?

[bledredwine]

Well said.

And for anyone who downplays this feat, you an also bring up that he never lost 3 games in a row from November in 1990 to his championship-winning shot in 1998.

That's nothing short of remarkable and more proof of the same will to win.
The greatest teams of all time struggle to do that for just one season and he did it for 7.

When it comes to winning games, you can't put anyone better on your team other than maybe Russell (these two are the winners' debate). One could also put Bird, Magic, and Duncan in that debate with their winning records. Of course, of these five players, only Jordan ever faced the adversity of having a terrible supporting cast, and it was for several years.

[bledredwine]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Not to mention when every single one of those players was asked who was better among Jordan/Lebron, not only did they say Jordan, but they used words like "Jordan, no question" or "Jordan, by far"

the only one who didn't is Kobe, who just diligently said "Jordan"

[vagelis]

To take a different tact; the numbers all back up that Giannis is the modern Shaq. He has 2pt efficiency on high volume, at a level that frankly blows what Jordan did away. Even if we granted Jordan would be incredible today, it's hard to credit he could be the 2pt wrecking ball Giannis is.

But for the sake of argument let's say Jordan could match Giannis on offense (a pretty bold claim when you consider their per 100 stats). Prime Giannis combines that Shaq like offensive dominance with a top level defensive anchor on the other end, in fact Giannis is arguably even more impactful on D than O. Jordan was a nice wing defender in his bygone era of iso ball, but he can't remotely compete with that package. So then what would Jordan's argument even be vs Giannis. I struggle to see it.

Easy. If we're playing all these what ifs, Jordan has superior footwork in an era that allowed a lot less travels, and 50% of the time, Giannis travels when he drives. Extra steps and everything. If we give Jordan the license to travel like half the league, Jordan would average 40 points. He is superior on offense. A deadly midrange game from Jordan and you have a hard time guessing when he'll pull up. Allow him to take all these extra steps, Euro steps and stepbacks, and now he has an added advantage.

Giannis can have the edge on defense but there are great defenders today who are not close to the athletic freak that Giannis is. Like Alex Caruso and Jrue Holiday, great defensive guards with great impact.

Today's game is different than the 90s but they have also relaxed the rules to ramp up the offense. Jordan would do great in today's game.


Also, Giannis lost to Jimmy Butler's Heat team as the heavy favorites in the playoffs so don't give me this Giannis is a superior player BS. And Jordan is so much better than Butler.

Add to this the offensive fouls that are not called and instead getting free throws.
This special treatment does not allow opponents to play any defense.

Some players are allowed to play with their elbows and travel.
This is a significant part of their offensive game and we all know who they are.

Jordan played with his speed and shooting ability. He played with legal basketball skills and he was an artist of basketball not a straight line player

[Wolveswin]

James is one of the most unique players NBA has ever seen. Body type to skill set to mass ratio is inhuman like. Thread in itself how unique James is.

Jordan WAS unique. Some were like him before him, but he took it to a whole new level. And since Jordan, Kobe copied his game. VC wanted to be Jordan. LaVine also tried. Today SGA gets compared to young Jordan.

And I think that is why so many James as GOAT lovers lately. They simply think, well SGA is Jordan just not as strong. Little less high flying. Been there, done that over the years.

Jordan high flying, playing style, skills isn’t what made him GOAT. It added to mystique of course. But mystique doesn’t make a GOAT.

[ChipotleWest]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

Or perhaps he became MICHAEL JORDAN by being fairly good.

Exactly when he came out of college no one was really hyping up Mike Jordan, yes Mike Jordan they didn't even call him Michael at first. His legacy grew because of his play.

[One_and_Done]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Not to mention when every single one of those players was asked who was better among Jordan/Lebron, not only did they say Jordan, but they used words like "Jordan, no question" or "Jordan, by far"

the only one who didn't is Kobe, who just diligently said "Jordan"

And Tony Kukoc thinks Dino Radja and Vlade Divac were better thsn Jokic. Players prove every yesr they are terrible judges of talent.

[bledredwine]

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Not to mention when every single one of those players was asked who was better among Jordan/Lebron, not only did they say Jordan, but they used words like "Jordan, no question" or "Jordan, by far"

the only one who didn't is Kobe, who just diligently said "Jordan"

And Tony Kukoc thinks Dino Radja and Vlade Divac were better thsn Jokic. Players prove every yesr they are terrible judges of talent.

I mentioned players who actually played against both Lebron and Jordan you mentioned a player who didn't play against Jokic.

[jbsays]

Jordan won every game he had to win.... except 9 seasons out of 15 he didn't win a championship.
Greatest player of his era and maybe the GOAT. I won't argue against you if you say he is and I won't waste my time arguing against you if you say he wasn't. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing are all time greats and never won a ring because of Jordan. It's a long list.

[TheGOATRises007]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

Fox is a much better shout than Shai

But neither are quicker than Jordan

I don't think either of them are quicker than LeBron too

And no i don't think Jordan is the best at everything

I'm just not deluded like you to spew nonsense like SGA being quicker than Jordan

[One_and_Done]

Not to mention when every single one of those players was asked who was better among Jordan/Lebron, not only did they say Jordan, but they used words like "Jordan, no question" or "Jordan, by far"

the only one who didn't is Kobe, who just diligently said "Jordan"

And Tony Kukoc thinks Dino Radja and Vlade Divac were better thsn Jokic. Players prove every yesr they are terrible judges of talent.

I mentioned players who actually played against both Lebron and Jordan you mentioned a player who didn't play against Jokic.

Players opinions don't seem less biased based on whether they played with them; just look at the yearly player vote for the all-star game. A pure embarassment.

Even if we threw that aside though, I don't think we've ever seen any meaningful polls of player views on this, and some of the guys you cite as having "played against both" barely played vs Jordan, and were at a different position to him. Duncan for example (who as far as I know has never said anything of the sort) was in the league for one year as rookie before Jordan retired, and didn't match up with Jordan. If he had said he preferred Jordan it'd be based on 1-2 games (not that he has said that). KG who played both thinks most guys from the 90s couldn't hack it today, and that today's game is far tougher on you physically. I'm not sure player opinions are as uniform as you think, it's just some opinions get more press coverage.

[One_and_Done]

Shai is apparently quicker than Jordan

This alone should invalidate everything the troll is saying

Mugsy Bogues and D.Fox are quicker than Jordan too. That doesn't make them better players, but it's pretty usual for quick waterbug point guards to be faster than shooting guards. Doubtless you think MJ was better than everyone at everything "because he's MICHAEL JORDAN!"

Fox is a much better shout than Shai

But neither are quicker than Jordan

I don't think either of them are quicker than LeBron too

And no i don't think Jordan is the best at everything

I'm just not deluded like you to spew nonsense like SGA being quicker than Jordan

You don't think Fox is faster than Lebron. Ok. No need to respond further.