Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[hardenASG13]

Crickets from the Joker haters tonight

I'm still here haha. Look, nobody (sane) is saying he's a bad player, or even the best player in the league currently. He's been called much more than that here though, and I still don't see it.

[Rustyman]

Jokic is who I hope Wemby becomes, obviously with better defence, but Jokic is such a consistent offensive force without any flopping that he is the player who playing style I admire most in the current NBA.

[UglyBugBall]

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Incredible, another random and completely meaningless record! Statmuse is amazing!

[jigga_man]

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And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

[hardenASG13]

Crickets from the Joker haters tonight

I'm still here haha. Look, nobody (sane) is saying he's a bad player, or even not the best player in the league currently. He's been called much more than that here though, and I still don't see it.

[Wallace_Wallace]

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And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

All he needs is Murray can shoot about 45% on the court, which is about his average.

[mcmurphy]

Some stats.
Murray played 61 games of Playoff.
His median GameScore has been of 18.4.

When:
Murray has GameScore <15 --> Record Denver 4W-16L
Murray has GameScore >15 --> Record Denver 33W-8L


Jokic played 76 games of Playoff.
His median GameScore has been of 23.4.

Jokic guarantees a very very high baseline... as long as Murray guarantees an even slightly lower than his standards is enough to have an 80% chance of victory.

... and then they say jokic is overrated... jez

Every Batman needs one Robin... but it has to be Robin at least

[Wallace_Wallace]

His peers who are as good as him/ Embiid/Giannis/Luka/SGA are either too young, have poor teams that have to be propped up, or have had their careers derailed do to injuries, as a result Jokic has won many of his MVPs because there isnt' anyone better to give it to.

I'm legit laughing at the argument Jokic has had better teammates than Embiid or Giannis. Even Luka is kind of silly

A James Harden/Nikol Jokic pick and roll with Maxey lurking on perimeter sounds like a decent 3 man trio.

Hypothetically speaking, if Denver were to get that call, would they agree to trade Murray straight up for Maxey/Irving/Lillard? Of course no one would want that because Denver would run away with another title or two.

[No-more-rings]

Sorry but this thread is just kinda silly. Every all time great has had poor games and even series relative to their normal level. It doesn’t make him “heavily overrated”. I think if someone calls him the next goat or something, then yeah that’s overrating him a bit but that’s more a minority opinion. No I don’t think he’s as good as Jordan or Lebron in their primes, but he’s also nothing like them as a player. Jokic is more like an upgraded Bird. People tend to misinterpret him as a player when they expect him to just turn into Jordan or Durant when his team needs 40 points. He can do that sometimes, but he’s not best optimized just hoisting up 25-30 shots every night.

[JVFRMN]

There are 79 people who voted yes to this thread. Mods should do everyone a favour and ban their accounts or force them to take mandatory Jokic training

about half of those votes might be accounts created by the infamous eyeatoma

[web123888]

Looks like he's still easily the best player in the game and the rightful MVP.

[Ice Man]

Yep, it's almost always about Murray. One playoff game in 10, at most, Jokic will not be good enough -- as with Game 2 this series. The rest of the time, he's the best player on the court and his team will probably win, if Murray shows.

If Murray doesn't show ... shrug. Shaq couldn't win without Penny, Kobe, or DWade, and nobody expected him to do so.

[UglyBugBall]

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And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

[UglyBugBall]

Yep, it's almost always about Murray. One playoff game in 10, at most, Jokic will not be good enough -- as with Game 2 this series. The rest of the time, he's the best player on the court and his team will probably win, if Murray shows.

If Murray doesn't show ... shrug. Shaq couldn't win without Penny, Kobe, or DWade, and nobody expected him to do so.

At least you admit Jokic can't win without help. Nobody said he's not a good player, but unlike other ATG's he needs help to win at the highest levels.

[Cubbies2120]

Yep, it's almost always about Murray. One playoff game in 10, at most, Jokic will not be good enough -- as with Game 2 this series. The rest of the time, he's the best player on the court and his team will probably win, if Murray shows.

If Murray doesn't show ... shrug. Shaq couldn't win without Penny, Kobe, or DWade, and nobody expected him to do so.

At least you admit Jokic can't win without help. Nobody said he's not a good player, but unlike other ATG's he needs help to win at the highest levels.

He’s literally had the least help for a title run in NBA history. No all star teammates, no all-NBA teammates, no all-D teammates.

LeBron needed HOFers, Jordan needed HOFers, Shaq needed HOFers, Kobe needed HOFers.

The only guys to win a title without help: 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem, 11 Dirk, 23 Jokic.

Your takes are irrational and make me think you’re eyeatoma's alt account.

[AleksandarN]

And Jokic still hasn’t played his best yet. Best player in the league

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Weren't you the one who started a thread titled "Jokic isn't HIM" after last game? To be honest, he started really slow again last night, and poured it on after it became a blowout.

Yes because through the first two games of this series he wasn’t playing like him. I have no problems criticizing him when he is playing bad. I will praise when him when he plays great.

[Jaqua92]

Yep, it's almost always about Murray. One playoff game in 10, at most, Jokic will not be good enough -- as with Game 2 this series. The rest of the time, he's the best player on the court and his team will probably win, if Murray shows.

If Murray doesn't show ... shrug. Shaq couldn't win without Penny, Kobe, or DWade, and nobody expected him to do so.

At least you admit Jokic can't win without help. Nobody said he's not a good player, but unlike other ATG's he needs help to win at the highest levels.

Unlike? Jokic has had, objectively, the least help ever. Dude hasn't played with an all star or all NBA player. That team is full of role players and a fringe all star player in Murray.

Your takes are wild and emotional

[Cubbies2120]

And Jokic still hasn’t played his best yet. Best player in the league

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Weren't you the one who started a thread titled "Jokic isn't HIM" after last game? To be honest, he started really slow again last night, and poured it on after it became a blowout.

He had 6 or 7 assists in the first half - I’d rather him get teammates going early tbh, especially if he’s getting doubled when he touches the ball.

[AleksandarN]

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And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

How many players through out history won championships without a clear number 2 or hof players. Or anyone who was not on an all defensive team or all nba. I will wait for the list from you. System player lol

[AleksandarN]

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And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

I will bring this up again

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