TWolves fans, redraft in 2020, KG or Anthony Edwards?

[Biff]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Your franchise did him no favors. Only year he had help was an old ass Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. Had the dude had some running mates more his age you guys definitely would have won a ring.

[Klomp]

I'm not convinced that Edwards won't derail his career doing something incredibly stupid. I know for a fact that KG isn't incredibly stupid. But I've seen Ant throw a chair at a woman, broadcast himself being a homophobic asshat over the internet, and he had that thing that blew up with him pressuring his mistress to get that abortion. He's only 22 so hopefully he matures, but so far he has a streak of stupidity that's worrying.

Michael Jordan did stupid stuff off the court.
Magic Johnson did stupid stuff off the court.
Wilt Chamberlain did stupid stuff off the court.

[cupcakesnake]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Ignoring supporting cast as a way to analyze the individual of these players is ridiculous.
Ant is playing with 2 all-star calibre players, the DPOY, 3 all-defense level guys, the 6MOY, 4 high-quality starters, and a rotation that legitimately goes 9 deep with quality NBA dudes.

You can take maybe as many of 7 of Ant's teammates this year and argue that any of them would be top 3 teammates of KG's all-time. Like give me a list of KG teammates that you're quite sure are better than NAW or Naz or SloMo. It gets mighhhhty hard after Cassell and Szczerbiak and then let's remember how few quality, healthy seasons KG got out of those guys (1 each).

What do you think happens when you put KG with 2 other all-stars and a deep rotation?

[dygaction]

KG's primary value is his defense.

That would be like comparing Kobe to Duncan and saying Kobe is better cause he scores more.

Except KG was not as good as Duncan and defense just does not carry the same weight as offense in current nba. Rudy Gobert, this season's DPoY and 4x total, can become unplayable depending on matchups.

Edwards is certainly just not scoring more, he is scroing 29.8ppg on 51/40/83 shooting or .633TS% over 19 career playoff games, with 24.8PER and 8.5BPM. In addition, his defense 1.5s/1.3b as a guard is elite.

Re: KG not as good as Duncan. In your opinion, not everyone's. I would consider KG to be the more capable defender as well as more capable shooter and passer. Duncan by contrast was better at volume post scoring.

Re: Gobert. Slower, dumber, and mentally weaker than KG while also being far worse on offense.

But you're certainly right that we'd expect that it's possible for top offense to top top defense in today's game and maybe that will end up with Ant getting the nod over KG as the better all around player for today's game. In which case he'd also be better than Duncan and Kobe in my assessment.

... Sounds like Duncan has been reduced to a one-trick volume-post-scoring pony. Like you have been fancinated with Luka's +/- are bad, have you wondered why TWolves defense were never really good over the 12 years KG was there, not a single season top 5? A great offensive player can almost garantee you a top 5 offense as shown by Luka, Harden, Nash, Jokic...

Also is it garanteed that KG would transfer to today and be a better defender than a proven morden ball 4x DPoY, who is taller, stronger, has longer wingspan, and led the top 5 best defense multiple times including this years' #1?

[Worm Guts]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Your franchise did him no favors. Only year he had help was an old ass Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. Had the dude had some running mates more his age you guys definitely would have won a ring.

My point is just that Ant is an ascending unknown.KG’s career arc is written and we know he didn’t win a championship with the team. I’ll take the unknown, even though I agree that KG’s lack of team success with the Wolves wasn’t his fault.

[dhsilv2]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Your franchise did him no favors. Only year he had help was an old ass Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. Had the dude had some running mates more his age you guys definitely would have won a ring.

My point is just that Ant is an ascending unknown.KG’s career arc is written and we know he didn’t win a championship with the team. I’ll take the unknown, even though I agree that KG’s lack of team success with the Wolves wasn’t his fault.

The question was if you drafted either at 19 in 2020. So no, you don't know what KG would do. It's hypothetical.

[sikma42]

This is very tough for me. Anthony Edwards is very close to taking this imo, The only thing I'm concerned about is oddly enough his slashing. I think he has another level he can get to (think MJ with smaller hands and DWade).

I just haven't seen enough to get it to Edwards, but its very very close based on his potential. KG imo is a bit overrated but still was a great great player.

[zimpy27]

Imagine KG and Ant together...

[zimpy27]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Ignoring supporting cast as a way to analyze the individual of these players is ridiculous.
Ant is playing with 2 all-star calibre players, the DPOY, 3 all-defense level guys, the 6MOY, 4 high-quality starters, and a rotation that legitimately goes 9 deep with quality NBA dudes.

You can take maybe as many of 7 of Ant's teammates this year and argue that any of them would be top 3 teammates of KG's all-time. Like give me a list of KG teammates that you're quite sure are better than NAW or Naz or SloMo. It gets mighhhhty hard after Cassell and Szczerbiak and then let's remember how few quality, healthy seasons KG got out of those guys (1 each).

What do you think happens when you put KG with 2 other all-stars and a deep rotation?

08 celtics happen

[AbeVigodaLive]

You can be smart enough to engage in a converstation. There are plenty of threads with similar comparison for Luka and Dirk. Those are intriguing questions if you have the ability to think.

Just preface the thread with you didn't watch KG play then everyone would understand where you're coming from... you love Anthony Edwards great. He hasn't proven anything yet. KG is a HOFer and I'm a die hard Knicks fan. It's not even remotely comparable right now

There are so many things involved in the comparison. First for the organization, KG won two playoff series in 12 years as a TWolve, the same as Edwards. Depending how emotionally you invested in KG and how much sympathy you put on the roster. Second, Edwards was the #1 pick of 2020 and still will be if repick now. He has 7 out of the top 10 playoff high scoring wise already. KG's weakness was the scroing load and efficiency, and Edwards truely excel in that.

To be fair, Edwars has won only one playoff series... so far.




[Note: The entire franchise has only three playoff series wins in 35 years. It's astounding just how bad the Timberwolves have been historically.]

[Doctor MJ]

Except KG was not as good as Duncan and defense just does not carry the same weight as offense in current nba. Rudy Gobert, this season's DPoY and 4x total, can become unplayable depending on matchups.

Edwards is certainly just not scoring more, he is scroing 29.8ppg on 51/40/83 shooting or .633TS% over 19 career playoff games, with 24.8PER and 8.5BPM. In addition, his defense 1.5s/1.3b as a guard is elite.

Re: KG not as good as Duncan. In your opinion, not everyone's. I would consider KG to be the more capable defender as well as more capable shooter and passer. Duncan by contrast was better at volume post scoring.

Re: Gobert. Slower, dumber, and mentally weaker than KG while also being far worse on offense.

But you're certainly right that we'd expect that it's possible for top offense to top top defense in today's game and maybe that will end up with Ant getting the nod over KG as the better all around player for today's game. In which case he'd also be better than Duncan and Kobe in my assessment.

... Sounds like Duncan has been reduced to a one-trick volume-post-scoring pony. Like you have been fancinated with Luka's +/- are bad, have you wondered why TWolves defense were never really good over the 12 years KG was there, not a single season top 5? A great offensive player can almost garantee you a top 5 offense as shown by Luka, Harden, Nash, Jokic...

Also is it garanteed that KG would transfer to today and be a better defender than a proven morden ball 4x DPoY, who is taller, stronger, has longer wingspan, and led the top 5 best defense multiple times including this years' #1?

Re: Duncan one-trick volume post-scoring pony. Not at all. Defense was what made Duncan great and the Spurs were at their best not trying to win based on volume post-scoring. It just so happens that volume post-scoring was what Duncan did better than KG, and his team won titles with that strategy, so people came to believe Duncan was a qualitatively higher tier player than Garnett.

Re: have you wondered why... Yes, there's nothing you bring up that hasn't been talked about many times before. Doesn't mean the opinions of those doing the talking were right, but the thing to understand from the start is that you're not actually thinking of something off the top of your head that the never occurred to a community full of people that's been around for many, many years.

Re: easier to make great offense around a great offensive player than a great defense around a great defensive player. In the modern game that's absolutely the case. Wasn't true back in the '60s which was why the league belonged to Bill Russell back then, but by the time Duncan & KG roll around, individual offense has more capacity for impact than individual defense.

Re: Is it guaranteed that KG would be better on defense than Gobert? In my opinion, yes. I mean I consider Draymond Green to be the top defender of the current era despite being much less physically talented as a defender compared to Gobert. Imagine if Green actually has world class physical talent and you get KG.

To your other points:

- Taller, stronger, longer. Important thing to understand here is that stronger and slower generally goes together. Stronger is an advantage in defending post-scorers, but it's a disadvantage on help defense, and help defense is what makes big men the anchor of team defense.

This is why I've long said that while the ideal physical frame for a big on offense may well be Shaq, the ideal for defense is Russell. Stout vs svelte. And while one might thing that being svelte is a problem because you can be exploited by brute force bigs volume scoring, NBA history is pretty clear that this isn't what's going to get you the highest performing offense. Shaq's Lakers are something of an exception to this relative to their rivals, but even they weren't really up their with the top offensive dynasties of all-time.

- Led top defenses. So did KG in Boston. Neither can do it with poor defensive teammates in poor defensive schemes because literally no one can, but we saw KG emerge as the clear cut most effective defender in the world in Boston despite him being past his physical peak. It was stunning.

[chudak]

Your franchise did him no favors. Only year he had help was an old ass Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. Had the dude had some running mates more his age you guys definitely would have won a ring.

My point is just that Ant is an ascending unknown.KG’s career arc is written and we know he didn’t win a championship with the team. I’ll take the unknown, even though I agree that KG’s lack of team success with the Wolves wasn’t his fault.

And KG does have a ring

Ant can win one
Or 5
Or 0


The question was if you drafted either at 19 in 2020. So no, you don't know what KG would do. It's hypothetical.

[dygaction]

Just preface the thread with you didn't watch KG play then everyone would understand where you're coming from... you love Anthony Edwards great. He hasn't proven anything yet. KG is a HOFer and I'm a die hard Knicks fan. It's not even remotely comparable right now

There are so many things involved in the comparison. First for the organization, KG won two playoff series in 12 years as a TWolve, the same as Edwards. Depending how emotionally you invested in KG and how much sympathy you put on the roster. Second, Edwards was the #1 pick of 2020 and still will be if repick now. He has 7 out of the top 10 playoff high scoring wise already. KG's weakness was the scroing load and efficiency, and Edwards truely excel in that.

To be fair, Edwars has won only one playoff series... so far.




[Note: The entire franchise has only three playoff series wins in 35 years. It's astounding just how bad the Timberwolves have been historically.]

My bad, thought they had a second round last year. 3 series for TWolves and they still refuse to retire KG's jersey are shameful, especially with Celtics already done so.

[cupcakesnake]

I already know what KG did, and as great as it was, it didn't win us anything.

Ignoring supporting cast as a way to analyze the individual of these players is ridiculous.
Ant is playing with 2 all-star calibre players, the DPOY, 3 all-defense level guys, the 6MOY, 4 high-quality starters, and a rotation that legitimately goes 9 deep with quality NBA dudes.

You can take maybe as many of 7 of Ant's teammates this year and argue that any of them would be top 3 teammates of KG's all-time. Like give me a list of KG teammates that you're quite sure are better than NAW or Naz or SloMo. It gets mighhhhty hard after Cassell and Szczerbiak and then let's remember how few quality, healthy seasons KG got out of those guys (1 each).

What do you think happens when you put KG with 2 other all-stars and a deep rotation?

08 celtics happen

That's a Bingo.

But we mostly have only these 2 extremes of KG. 1 year of prime KG with a loaded roster or 7-8 years of prime KG with a joke roster. I tend to argue that KG could have been a perpetual championship contender with just a normal roster.

2004 is the best evidence of this. It still wasn't a good roster. 34-year-old Cassell who became an all-star for the first time that year. Near-completely washed 33-yo Sprewell shooting 40%. Szczerbiak (played 28 games) and Olowokandi (43 games) get injured so we're starting 36-year-old Ervin Johnson or Mark Madsen at center, and a below replacement level prodcution guy in Trenton Hassell. That team goes to the Western Conference Finals and plays the Lakers tight despite Cassell getting injured in game 3.

I feel strongly that give KG a normal supporting cast over his career, and he's fighting on deep playoff runs every year. Nothing fancy, give him an all-star teammate and 2 other quality starters and I think he's good to go.

It is sort of fun that Ant and KG are basically perfect for each other. The all-time T-Wolves team is finally at least a little less sad to think about!

[AbeVigodaLive]

There are so many things involved in the comparison. First for the organization, KG won two playoff series in 12 years as a TWolve, the same as Edwards. Depending how emotionally you invested in KG and how much sympathy you put on the roster. Second, Edwards was the #1 pick of 2020 and still will be if repick now. He has 7 out of the top 10 playoff high scoring wise already. KG's weakness was the scroing load and efficiency, and Edwards truely excel in that.

To be fair, Edwars has won only one playoff series... so far.




[Note: The entire franchise has only three playoff series wins in 35 years. It's astounding just how bad the Timberwolves have been historically.]

My bad, thought they had a second round last year. 3 series for TWolves and they still refuse to retire KG's jersey are shameful, especially with Celtics already done so.

To be fair... that's been Garnett's decision.

He's had major beef with Glen Taylor... especially after Flip Saunders died. Apparently, Flip and Garnett had an agreement that Garnett would become a minority owner of the team after he retired. Taylor didn't honor that agreement and Garnett has distanced himself from the organization since.

[Shaka_Zulu]

There are so many things involved in the comparison. First for the organization, KG won two playoff series in 12 years as a TWolve, the same as Edwards. Depending how emotionally you invested in KG and how much sympathy you put on the roster. Second, Edwards was the #1 pick of 2020 and still will be if repick now. He has 7 out of the top 10 playoff high scoring wise already. KG's weakness was the scroing load and efficiency, and Edwards truely excel in that.

To be fair, Edwars has won only one playoff series... so far.




[Note: The entire franchise has only three playoff series wins in 35 years. It's astounding just how bad the Timberwolves have been historically.]

My bad, thought they had a second round last year. 3 series for TWolves and they still refuse to retire KG's jersey are shameful, especially with Celtics already done so.

No one's refusing to retire KG shirt in Wolves nation. He is adored and missed big time post retirement. But he is in open feud with our **** owner Glen Taylor. So he refuses to have his shirt retirement ceremony. Or even step foot inside Target center aslong as we have same owner.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ignoring supporting cast as a way to analyze the individual of these players is ridiculous.
Ant is playing with 2 all-star calibre players, the DPOY, 3 all-defense level guys, the 6MOY, 4 high-quality starters, and a rotation that legitimately goes 9 deep with quality NBA dudes.

You can take maybe as many of 7 of Ant's teammates this year and argue that any of them would be top 3 teammates of KG's all-time. Like give me a list of KG teammates that you're quite sure are better than NAW or Naz or SloMo. It gets mighhhhty hard after Cassell and Szczerbiak and then let's remember how few quality, healthy seasons KG got out of those guys (1 each).

What do you think happens when you put KG with 2 other all-stars and a deep rotation?

08 celtics happen

That's a Bingo.

But we mostly have only these 2 extremes of KG. 1 year of prime KG with a loaded roster or 7-8 years of prime KG with a joke roster. I tend to argue that KG could have been a perpetual championship contender with just a normal roster.

2004 is the best evidence of this. It still wasn't a good roster. 34-year-old Cassell who became an all-star for the first time that year. Near-completely washed 33-yo Sprewell shooting 40%. Szczerbiak (played 28 games) and Olowokandi (43 games) get injured so we're starting 36-year-old Ervin Johnson or Mark Madsen at center, and a below replacement level prodcution guy in Trenton Hassell. That team goes to the Western Conference Finals and plays the Lakers tight despite Cassell getting injured in game 3.

I feel strongly that give KG a normal supporting cast over his career, and he's fighting on deep playoff runs every year. Nothing fancy, give him an all-star teammate and 2 other quality starters and I think he's good to go.

It is sort of fun that Ant and KG are basically perfect for each other. The all-time T-Wolves team is finally at least a little less sad to think about!

I don't even think he needed a "normal" roster.

Garnett just needed to play with a legit lead guard or bucket getter who could create his own shot. As noted, Sam Cassell wasn't even dominant in that role and they still made the WCF as the #1 seed.

There were rumors of Gary Payton coming to Minnesota was a talking point for awhile. It would have been interesting... and probably successful.

[zero rings]

What is with NBA fans and overreacting to tiny samples in the playoffs? Ant has been incredible through eight games, but it's eight games lol. Eight games of unsustainable hot shooting is not enough to put him in the conversation with the All-Time Greats.

If he sustains it throughout the playoffs, and then comes out next year and has an MVP caliber season, then we can talk about how he compares to the likes of KG. As of now he's a just a pretty good player on a heater.

[NZB2323]

KG lol

Certainly KG can have a good argument, but lol at the lol - Ant man at 22 has played 19 playoff games, 7 of which had higher scoring than KG's career high.

Most points scored by player in wolves playoff game

1. Anthony Edwards - 44, 05/12/2024
2. Anthony Edwards - 43, 05/04/2024
3. Anthony Edwards - 41, 04/19/2023
4. Anthony Edwards - 40, 04/28/2024
5. Sam Cassell - 40, 05/04/2004
6. Sam Cassell - 40, 04/18/2004
7. Troy Hudson - 37, 04/22/2003
8. Anthony Edwards - 36, 04/26/2024
9. Anthony Edwards - 36, 04/21/2023
10. Anthony Edwards - 36, 04/16/2022
11. Kevin Garnett - 35, 04/22/2003

If we just judge players by most points scored in a playoff game:

3. Donovan Mitchell -57
4. Jimmy Butler - 56
17. Boston Isiah Thomas - 53
23. Donovan Mitchell, Sleepy Floyd, and Sam Jones - 51
30. Vince Carter - 50
92. Zelmo Beaty - 46


Malachi Flynn, Corey Brewer, Vernon Maxwell, Caris LeVert, Andre Miller, Walt Wesley, Terrence Ross, Willie Burton, Tracy Murray, and Tony Delk have all had 50 point games, and KG never did!

[Yinwest]

Remember that was a time that Harden was averaging nearly 40 PPG, sown people were saying he is better or as good as MJ