Is Anthony Edwards an undisputed top 5 player alongside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA?

[iggymcfrack]

For people disputing Giannis, Giannis is a 2 time MVP and Finals MVP very recently.

This season in addition to adjusting to Dame, we saw Giannis start to show another evolution in his game statistically.

It was his highest TS in his career at 64.9% TS. This puts him at the top echelon in efficiency. He did it on volume at 30.4 ppg.

He also averaged the highest assists per game of his career at 6.5 per game. But more noteworthy, it was ramped up overtime showing his intentional growth in that area. From January on, he averaged 7.2 assists per game. With not a single month in that span under 7 assists per game. Averaging that over the course of a season would have put him as top 10 assists per game in the league.

What we might be looking at with Giannis in 2025 season is a hyper athletic, hyper efficient, volume scoring, defensive, playmaking big.

I think he fell in the outskirts of the conversation due to issues integrating Dame and a poor start, but I would not be surprised if Giannis ends up being the MVP next season. I think he is likely to put up an absurd statistical season while being a two-way big.

2020: Got injured in the playoffs and his team got swept out of the 2nd round
2021: Got injured in the playoffs in a 2-2 series and his team went 2-0 without him so he could come back for the Finals
2022: Good but not great playoffs, lost in the second round
2023: Got injured in the playoffs and his team lost in the first round
2024: Got injured right before the playoffs, didn't play, and his team lost in the first round

It's a pattern at this point. If you're going to knock Embiid for always being hurt in the playoffs, the same criticism should apply to Giannis. Also, unlike Embiid who was putting up career numbers before the injury, Giannis has been showing signs of decline even when healthy. His game relies very heavily on jumping and athleticism and even without the injuries, that starts fading around his age. He'll be 30 next season. That's the same age Westbrook was his last year in OKC. Russ won MVP in 2017 at age 28. He was in serious decline at age 30 and by 2020 at age 31 in Houston he was basically washed. Giannis last won MVP in 2020 at age 25. Well we've already seen the beginning signs of decline.

Interesting note: Kawhi has the same number of healthy postseasons as Giannis over the last 5 years.

[MavsDirk41]

I don’t even know that Giannis is undisputed at this point. He’s hurt in the playoffs more than Embiid. I’d go:

Tier 1: Jokic
Tier 2: SGA, Luka
Tier 3: Giannis, Embiid, Ant, Brunson, LeBron, Tatum

Maybe, but I still know what he’s capable of, and that’s being the singular best player on the planet. 2022 vs the Celtics wasn’t that long ago.

None of the other players listed have ever been the best in the world or won that ring. Well except LeBron but obviously he’s past his prime. And Giannis this regular season was monstrous… 30-11-6 on something like 60% from the field.

Until SGA, Luka, Ant, Brunson, Embiid, Tatum etc get their teams a ring, you can’t realistically put them over Giannis.

If you can put them ahead of LeBron, why can't you put them ahead of Giannis? LeBron's last year as best player in the world was 2020. Giannis's was 2021. They're one year apart.

Here are Giannis' playoff numbers you're lauding from 2022:
26.8 PER on .552 TS%, .178 WS/48, 10.4 BPM

And here are LeBron's playoff numbers from 2024:
26.2 PER on .637 TS%, .186 WS/48, 10.6 BPM

Apparently you can't put SGA or Luka ahead of LeBron until he wins a ring? Come on man, that's nonsense. If that's the case, Luka could lose to the Celtics in the Finals and the top 5 would have to be Jokic, Giannis, LeBron, Curry, and Tatum. It just doesn't make sense.

Funny you mention James and Curry but no Anthony Davis? Here are Davis playoff numbers this year 27.8 points per game, 15.6 boards, 4 assists, 1.6 blocks and he was 4th in DPOY voting. He was healthy this year and arguably the best player on the Lakers.

[tsherkin]

Hell no. He needs to show that he can play at this level consistently

3 years in a row now that he has massively upped his game come play off time.

I still remember when Shaq called him Jeremy Lin 2 years ago

Yeah, "Jeremy Lin" is a bit much. I think folks are just looking for him to carry this over into a meaningful sample instead of a series at a time. This year is an important step, as he has done just that, and been quite good for most of the Denver series thus far. But if he's not improving his RS play, then there's an important and very LARGE proportion of his job that he isn't doing at a comparable level to the other guys, so it's a little premature to rank him there, even if he is showing he has that sort of potential and ability.

[Special_Puppy]

Hell no. He needs to show that he can play at this level consistently

3 years in a row now that he has massively upped his game come play off time.

I still remember when Shaq called him Jeremy Lin 2 years ago

He still only has 21 career playoff games. That's a very small sample.

[firedavidkahn]

Hell no. He needs to show that he can play at this level consistently

3 years in a row now that he has massively upped his game come play off time.

I still remember when Shaq called him Jeremy Lin 2 years ago

He still only has 21 career playoff games. That's a very small sample.

And after literally all career evidence to date, what on Earth makes you think he wont continue upping his game/keep this production in the play offs?

Until Ant starts to decline in maybe 10 years his floor for the play offs will be a 30/5/5 player

[Special_Puppy]

3 years in a row now that he has massively upped his game come play off time.

I still remember when Shaq called him Jeremy Lin 2 years ago

He still only has 21 career playoff games. That's a very small sample.

And after literally all career evidence to date, what on Earth makes you think he wont continue upping his game/keep this production in the play offs?

Until Ant starts to decline in maybe 10 years his floor for the play offs will be a 30/5/5 player

Because shooting and making shots at a far higher clip than you do in the regular season is a hard thing to sustain? Going from a fringe All-NBA level player in the regular season to a BITW candidate in the playoff is a hard story to believe?

[Triple M]

Top 5 should be earned. I think historically it meant being an mvp or championn. If he makes a finals or wins it then he cements his spot for the next era of the league.

[tsherkin]

And after literally all career evidence to date, what on Earth makes you think he wont continue upping his game/keep this production in the play offs?

Until Ant starts to decline in maybe 10 years his floor for the play offs will be a 30/5/5 player

Question: do you think he'll maintain 60% shooting from 16-23 feet, and in general shooting better from the floor than Shaq, despite being shooting guard sized?

[bledredwine]

The kid is playing like prime Kawhi at age 22. I’d say so.

[firedavidkahn]

And after literally all career evidence to date, what on Earth makes you think he wont continue upping his game/keep this production in the play offs?

Until Ant starts to decline in maybe 10 years his floor for the play offs will be a 30/5/5 player

Question: do you think he'll maintain 60% shooting from 16-23 feet, and in general shooting better from the floor than Shaq, despite being shooting guard sized?

His efficiency might go down some, but he's still going to be putting up those numbers for the foreseeable future

[tsherkin]

His efficiency might go down some, but he's still going to be putting up those numbers for the foreseeable future

So again, with the notion in mind that he's quite good and showing TONS of potential, the question here is about ranking alongside more proven players who have had big postseasons AND done wonderfully in the RS. Ant has not stunned in the RS at all, which is why there's a lot of pushback against him in the top 5. You can't be at the level for 10 or 15 games a year and expect to be treated the same as guys who rock it over the whole RS and then also into the PS, you know?

[srhcan]

Outside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA.. I think Ant is easily the best player available for any franchise to become a legit contender.

Ant is only 22 years old, but he's already an exceptional playoff performer who can shine in the biggest stage. He's nowhere near close from entering his prime & has tons of potential to show in the next 10 years. Ant is the main reason why Timberwolves have gone from a joke franchise to a genuine Championship contender in 1 season.

Is Ant an undisputed top 5 player in NBA alongside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA?

Top 5 are Embiid, Jokic, Luka, SGA and Giannis. Ant would be #6, Tatum #7 and Brunson #8 in my book.

[firedavidkahn]

His efficiency might go down some, but he's still going to be putting up those numbers for the foreseeable future

So again, with the notion in mind that he's quite good and showing TONS of potential, the question here is about ranking alongside more proven players who have had big postseasons AND done wonderfully in the RS. Ant has not stunned in the RS at all, which is why there's a lot of pushback against him in the top 5. You can't be at the level for 10 or 15 games a year and expect to be treated the same as guys who rock it over the whole RS and then also into the PS, you know?

Might get some pushback from even Wolves fans here but after years of watching players like KAT dominate in the regular season but fall off in the post season (KAT career - but this year he is rewriting his script and playing so well in the play offs) I put so much more stock into players who up their game in the play offs.

Picture perfect example is Embiid. Absolutely looks like a GOAT during the regular reason but falls off every year in the paly offs...hell even if Ant loses tonight he will already have matched Embiid's career achievements in the post season. There's a legitimate argument that come play off time you should pick Ant over someone like Embiid anyway. If you took just the regular season into account you'd be crazy to do that but factor in the post season when the games actually count the question gets very murky.

Career PER regular season:
Embiid: 28.5
Ant: 17

Career PER play offs:
Embiid: 22.2
Ant: 26.1

Career BPM regular season:
Embiid: 7
Ant: 0.9

Career BPM play offs:
Embiid: 4.1
Ant: 8.1

Long term Minnesota fans are intimately aware of what it takes to suck ass and we can spot it a mile away. Ant is the complete opposite of that. I've watched every second of his career and come play off time you can count on him becoming a top player in the league.

[tsherkin]

Might get some pushback from even Wolves fans here but after years of watching players like KAT dominate in the regular season but fall off in the post season (KAT career - but this year he is rewriting his script and playing so well in the play offs) I put so much more stock into players who up their game in the play offs.

Playoff performance is very definitely important, and Ant has been great. But when you're talking about less than two dozen games and some unreasonable, unlikely to sustain percentages, the chance that the player will normalize to a meaningful degree is significant. And playing well in the RS is still important. Seeding matters, and the demonstration of consistency also matters.

I agree that, specifics aside, it seems likely that he will continue to be Quite Good (whatever that looks like, not quite at this level but definitely better than his RS level) going forward in the playoffs.

But to be ranked top 5 in the whole league, you need to do it for more than a short stretch every year.

[Klomp]

So again, with the notion in mind that he's quite good and showing TONS of potential, the question here is about ranking alongside more proven players who have had big postseasons AND done wonderfully in the RS. Ant has not stunned in the RS at all, which is why there's a lot of pushback against him in the top 5. You can't be at the level for 10 or 15 games a year and expect to be treated the same as guys who rock it over the whole RS and then also into the PS, you know?

Why is regular season consistency more important than playoff consistency?

Especially when at the same time people are seemingly okay with leaving on the list someone who this year for the first time in his career led his team to a win percentage above .500?

[jfs1000d]

Outside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA.. I think Ant is easily the best player available for any franchise to become a legit contender.

Ant is only 22 years old, but he's already an exceptional playoff performer who can shine in the biggest stage. He's nowhere near close from entering his prime & has tons of potential to show in the next 10 years. Ant is the main reason why Timberwolves have gone from a joke franchise to a genuine Championship contender in 1 season.

Is Ant an undisputed top 5 player in NBA alongside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA?

Tier 1
Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Embiid
Tier 2
SGA
Tatum
Tier 3
Antman

Ant is close. But one 8 game playoff run doesn’t pout him over Tatum. Come on.

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[tsherkin]

Why is regular season consistency more important than playoff consistency?

Especially when at the same time people are seemingly okay with leaving on the list someone who this year for the first time in his career led his team to a win percentage above .500?

The size of the postseason relative to the playoffs. His postseason career is a quarter of a full season. He's considerably worse in the RS than in the PS so far, and there's a near-zero chance he maintains this level of performance over his playoff prime. I want to see at least one RS where he plays anything like this before I put him on a level with guys who do that AND play well in the playoffs. Otherwise, this is essentially a couple of timely shooting streaks. Like, there isn't a world where I expect him to keep shooting +7% over his RS 2FG in the playoffs on a consistent basis but be incapable of bettering league-average efficiency in the RS. Decades and decades of basketball hasn't really worked like that, you know?

Now, if he comes out and rocks it in the RS next year, then this particularly postseason can be looked at as his coming-out party. He's certainly been showing the potential for a couple years now, if only in flashes. But until he can do both, he doesn't really belong in the top 5.

[jfs1000d]

Outside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA.. I think Ant is easily the best player available for any franchise to become a legit contender.

Ant is only 22 years old, but he's already an exceptional playoff performer who can shine in the biggest stage. He's nowhere near close from entering his prime & has tons of potential to show in the next 10 years. Ant is the main reason why Timberwolves have gone from a joke franchise to a genuine Championship contender in 1 season.

Is Ant an undisputed top 5 player in NBA alongside Jokic, Giannis, Luka & SGA?

Tier 1
Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Embiid
Tier 2
SGA
Tatum
Tier 3
Antman

Ant is close. But one 8 game playoff run doesn’t pout him over Tatum. Come on.

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We also can’t be prisoners of moment. Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Tatum proven performers deep in playoffs. Embiid is just a phenomenal talent.

The NBA is weird. Media loves to build upon stars to quickly, before they are ready, and take away to long to knock stars down a peg when they decline.

Lebron, KD, Harden, Leone, George are all on the decline.


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[Sign5]

The only undisputed ranking is probably #1 with Jokic and even then you still have the Luka/Embiid/Giannis fans. 2-8 is truly a toss up imo.

[web123888]

It's probably disputed but I would certainly rather have him than Tatum. I don't think Tatum could take this T-Wolves team anywhere relevant.