Kobe Bryant 1995-1998

[leolozon]

Kobe dropped to 13th because Tellem threatened the Nets that Kobe would not play for them. Otherwise they would have picked him at 8th instead of Kittles.

I don't think Kobe is getting enough flak for this. Imagine a world where players would threaten teams so they don't draft them, only so they could play on a "good team" in a "good market"... That's just a bad attitude. Even if it's obvious Jerry West was behind most of it, Kobe still played along because he wanted to be a Lakers.

There should be some rules about this type of tempering with the draft.

[microfib4thewin]

Some of you still don't seem to get it despite countless articles being posted which explain in detail why he threatened not to play for the Nets or workout for teams.

Here's a hint: Jerry West

Oh Jerry West and his jedi mind tricks, what could Kobe do?

Here is what he could do. He could say he appreciate West having a high opinion of him but he will continue working out with other teams and let the draft determine where he will go just like what every other prospect goes through. He has the choice to reject going along with Tellem and West's ploy but he did not. HE chooses to let them play mind games on everyone else into believing that he will only play for LA, and it worked.

That wasn't the first time Kobe seem selective on his destination. When he went to free agency in 2004 the only teams linked to him were the Clippers and the Lakers. Even if he was at the lowest point in his career it doesn't make much sense other teams didn't approach him when he still hasn't reached his prime. Although there could be many explanations for this the most reasonable one is that Kobe told the other teams that he wasn't interested. If you are still not convinced, then look at the beginning of 2008 where he waived his NTC only for Phoenix, who was the most exciting team at that time, and Chicago, who was contending, needed a dominant scorer, is a large market, had Jordan's legacy lingering in United Center, and he will accept a trade there if and only if Deng is not a part of the trade.

Kobe saying that he doesn't care where he plays should be taken with a grain of salt.

[LLcoleJ]

Oh Jerry West and his jedi mind tricks, what could Kobe do?

You are assuming Kobe had power in 1996. You would be wrong, again. If not for Jerry West' Jedi mind" tricks then there is no Kobe to the Lakers. Fact.

Here is what he could do. He could say he appreciate West having a high opinion of him but he will continue working out with other teams and let the draft determine where he will go just like what every other prospect goes through. He has the choice to reject going along with Tellem and West's ploy but he did not. HE chooses to let them play mind games on everyone else into believing that he will only play for LA, and it worked.

Actually players shutting down workouts because of team promises to grab them in draft is quite a common thing in the NBA.

That wasn't the first time Kobe seem selective on his destination. When he went to free agency in 2004 the only teams linked to him were the Clippers and the Lakers. Even if he was at the lowest point in his career it doesn't make much sense other teams didn't approach him when he still hasn't reached his prime. Although there could be many explanations for this the most reasonable one is that Kobe told the other teams that he wasn't interested. If you are still not convinced, then look at the beginning of 2008 where he waived his NTC only for Phoenix, who was the most exciting team at that time, and Chicago, who was contending, needed a dominant scorer, is a large market, had Jordan's legacy lingering in United Center, and he will accept a trade there if and only if Deng is not a part of the trade.

gasp...

Kobe saying that he doesn't care where he plays should be taken with a grain of salt.

you have a warped view of what kind of 'power' you think Kobe had in 1996.

[RebelWithACause]

Some of you still don't seem to get it despite countless articles being posted which explain in detail why he threatened not to play for the Nets or workout for teams.

Here's a hint: Jerry West

Oh Jerry West and his jedi mind tricks, what could Kobe do?

Here is what he could do. He could say he appreciate West having a high opinion of him but he will continue working out with other teams and let the draft determine where he will go just like what every other prospect goes through. He has the choice to reject going along with Tellem and West's ploy but he did not. HE chooses to let them play mind games on everyone else into believing that he will only play for LA, and it worked.

That wasn't the first time Kobe seem selective on his destination. When he went to free agency in 2004 the only teams linked to him were the Clippers and the Lakers. Even if he was at the lowest point in his career it doesn't make much sense other teams didn't approach him when he still hasn't reached his prime. Although there could be many explanations for this the most reasonable one is that Kobe told the other teams that he wasn't interested. If you are still not convinced, then look at the beginning of 2008 where he waived his NTC only for Phoenix, who was the most exciting team at that time, and Chicago, who was contending, needed a dominant scorer, is a large market, had Jordan's legacy lingering in United Center, and he will accept a trade there if and only if Deng is not a part of the trade.

Kobe saying that he doesn't care where he plays should be taken with a grain of salt.

Why shouldn't he decide where he wants to play?

If he gets a kind of a promise from the Lakers, which was his absolute fav team growing up, why should someone keep on working out for teams like the Hornets, Cavs or some other small market, just to land a few spots higher and play somewhere he does not wanna go?
Sounds idiotic

Every player is selective when it comes to team search/destination.
So whats your point?

[BubbaTee]

His play would have gotten him exposure by being the starting SG in his rookie season for NJ. Instead he got minimal playing time his rookie year and a bit more his 2nd, but both coming off the bench. It's not like he had a 3yr window to make money and no opportunities after that. He could have looked to sign with LA after his rookie contract was up.

It was New Jersey, not Brooklyn. The Nets had been awful (300-520) over the previous decade, their "highlights" were 3 1st-round exits under Chuck Daly in the early 90s. No one cared about the Nets. They didn't have a Bond villain for an owner, weren't fronted by a famous rapper, and didn't play in a shiny new arena in the (de facto) capital of the entire world.

You think Kobe would have been hyped as a rookie starting SG for the Nets? Pfft. Kerry Kittles was a rookie starting SG, he put up 16/4/3 with a 16.0 PER that year - and no one cared. Kittles didn't even make All-Rookie 1st team - he was stuck on the 2nd team along with Kobe's 8 ppg, Travis Knight, and Matt Maloney.

That's nowhere close to the same level of exposure as playing for the Lakers, next to Shaquille O'Neal, going to the playoffs - though that kinda worked against Kobe too, as it ensured a big audience for his infamous Utah airballs.

Your play gets you the exposure.

If that were true, then there would have been as many Hawks threads last season as there were Lakers threads, and LaMarcus Aldridge would be on TV as much as Blake Griffin.

Calipari would have probably made Kobe the focal point half way through his rookie season.

Why would Cal have made Kobe the focal point?

The Nets had Kendall Gill average 22/6/4 that year - why would he just step aside for some 18 year old rookie? Later in the season they added vets Sam Cassell and Jim Jackson - why would they just step aside for some kid? Did Eddie Jones just step aside for Kobe in LA?

[semi-sentient]

Some posters here are extremely delusional and have no common sense whatsoever.

Kobe grew up a Lakers fan and was approached by one of the greatest Lakers ever about joining the team. Who in their right mind would say "Thanks, but I'll let the chips fall where they may in fairness to everyone else."? GTFO. If West approaches you then you're going to listen, and if he asks you to do your part in making sure it happens then you're going to do it. End of story.

There was zero reason for Kobe not to play along with his plot. Zero.

There isn't anyone on this board who would turn West down, and the reality is that all of these players have their preferences. If those players get the chance to play for their franchise of choice then they're going to take that chance. It's silly to believe otherwise. If an opportunity like that presents itself then you jump on it, not run away from it.

[microfib4thewin]

You are assuming Kobe had power in 1996. You would be wrong, again. If not for Jerry West' Jedi mind" tricks then there is no Kobe to the Lakers. Fact.

Actually players shutting down workouts because of team promises to grab them in draft is quite a common thing in the NBA.

He is the player. He has the power to tell the agent what he wanted, and at that point in time he wanted to play in a large market with the most storied franchise in the league which leads to my response for your second quote. It is very uncommon for a player to shut down all potential workouts even after he has worked out with a team that is guaranteed to land him, it is completely unheard of for a lottery prospect to work out for only two teams and shutting down the other teams after he has made contact with the team that holds the 24th pick. How Kobe went about pre-draft was far from the norm and any other draftee that did the same thing Kobe did would be crucified.

It is more accurate to say Kobe was a willing participant to this act than to label him as a victim of Jerry West's social experimentation.

you have a warped view of what kind of 'power' you think Kobe had in 1996.

It's called common sense. Which is more likely, that Kobe wasn't picky in 1996 but became picky in 2004 or that Kobe was picky all along?

[RebelWithACause]

How Kobe went about pre-draft was far from the norm and any other draftee that did the same thing Kobe did would be crucified.

Why crucified?

For leaving money on the table?
For wanting to play for his fav team?

Tons of players shut down workouts after a promise...

Recent examples are Dion Waiters, Reggie Jackson, Victor Oladipo

[LLcoleJ]

He is the player. He has the power to tell the agent what he wanted, and at that point in time he wanted to play in a large market with the most storied franchise in the league which leads to my response for your second quote. It is very uncommon for a player to shut down all potential workouts even after he has worked out with a team that is guaranteed to land him, it is completely unheard of for a lottery prospect to work out for only two teams and shutting down the other teams after he has made contact with the team that holds the 24th pick. How Kobe went about pre-draft was far from the norm and any other draftee that did the same thing Kobe did would be crucified.

A couple things.

Kobe was a 17 year old kid, entering the draft. The only power plays were made by Jerry West and Kobe's agent. Only because The Lakers wanted Kobe and not the other way around.

On top of that, at best he was the 8th seed in the draft. Think about that for a moment.

Also, he worked out for many teams prior to getting the Lakers promise.

To assert, that he declared for the draft and said I will only play for the lakers is moronic and lacks common sense. It didn't happen that way. Stop pretending like it did.

It is more accurate to say Kobe was a willing participant to this act than to label him as a victim of Jerry West's social experimentation.

This quote makes no sense.

It's called common sense. Which is more likely, that Kobe wasn't picky in 1996 but became picky in 2004 or that Kobe was picky all along?

Picky? That's what this discussion has turned into? Picky?.... and common sense? I wish it was being used here. Simply reading and comprehending the much public information on this topic will tell you the story. Not the wild narrative spin you keep making out of this.

[tha_rock220]

If only Charlotte hadn't traded him...

They had no choice. Kobe said he wouldn't play for them. He always wanted to play for the Lakers.

I thought Jerry West traded them Divac so he could clear cap room to sign Shaq.

As for the OP, outside of him going to prom with Brandy, an appearance on the tonight show, and a few other things Kobe's notoriety before getting drafted was basically zero. Part of it was the times. By the time LeBron was a sophomore the most Americans had access to ESPN2 and their other twenty stations and most Americans had internet by that time so it was easier to get news about him.

[Sixerscan]

lebron media dominance doubled when he broke high school amateurism rules by accepting that 50k suv and those throwback jerseys.

moral transgression (albeit relatively minor) = popularity surge. sounds about right

It wasn't a moral transgression. It was an (alleged) action that violated some arbitrary rule based on BS amateurism ideals.

If someone offered you a free car, and you took it, I wouldn't think you did anything morally wrong.

[Illmatic21]

Kobe dropped to 13th because Tellem threatened the Nets that Kobe would not play for them. Otherwise they would have picked him at 8th instead of Kittles.

I don't think Kobe is getting enough flak for this. Imagine a world where players would threaten teams so they don't draft them, only so they could play on a "good team" in a "good market"... That's just a bad attitude. Even if it's obvious Jerry West was behind most of it, Kobe still played along because he wanted to be a Lakers.

There should be some rules about this type of tempering with the draft.

Eli Manning did this. Didn't want to play for the Chargers and forced a draft day trade to the NY Giants.

[kulo]

It is more accurate to say Kobe was a willing participant to this act than to label him as a victim of Jerry West's social experimentation.

This quote makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? Even if it didn't, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what he wrote and your statement was completely unnecessary.

OT: At the end of the day it was ultimately down to Kobe's decision.

[LLcoleJ]

It is more accurate to say Kobe was a willing participant to this act than to label him as a victim of Jerry West's social experimentation.

This quote makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? Even if it didn't, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what he wrote and your statement was completely unnecessary.

OT: At the end of the day it was ultimately down to Kobe's decision.

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

[kulo]

This quote makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? Even if it didn't, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what he wrote and your statement was completely unnecessary.

OT: At the end of the day it was ultimately down to Kobe's decision.

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

Please tell me how "This quote makes no sense" was a necessary comment.

[microfib4thewin]

A couple things.

Kobe was a 17 year old kid, entering the draft. The only power plays were made by Jerry West and Kobe's agent. Only because The Lakers wanted Kobe and not the other way around.

That power play is only possible if Kobe was willing to go along with it, and Kobe was happy to do it. The decision to not scare off other potential suitors was still in Kobe's hands.

On top of that, at best he was the 8th seed in the draft. Think about that for a moment.

No. He was #8 at the worst. He worked out for the Nets first, then the Lakers, and because West was so interested in Kobe his camp decided to tell everyone else that Kobe will not attend their workout, at least that's how the story went according to Tellem. Only the Nets and the Lakers knew what Kobe could be capable of.

To assert, that he declared for the draft and said I will only play for the lakers is moronic and lacks common sense. It didn't happen that way. Stop pretending like it did.

He certainly didn't say it outright, but he made it so difficult for bottom tier teams to pick him that it would be sensible to suspect that Kobe had intended things to work out the way it did. Aside from the lottery teams not getting to see Kobe play he was also a HS prospect in an era where teams are unsure if players with no college experience are worth the gamble. So despite the hype, Kobe is a mystery to rebuilding teams and they are afraid to take a chance with him in a relatively deep draft.

As for your insert about Kobe working out with many teams, if Kobe did work out with multiple teams then why were the Nets and the Lakers the only teams to express interest in drafting him? Was Calipari and West the only guys who saw potential in Kobe? That's a possibility but a rather difficult assumption to make.

Picky? That's what this discussion has turned into? Picky?.... and common sense? I wish it was being used here. Simply reading and comprehending the much public information on this topic will tell you the story. Not the wild narrative spin you keep making out of this.

There's enough information out there to suspect that Kobe played a large role in him coming to LA. There are several red flags if we are to believe that Kobe had no influence in the Lakers landing him.

1. It was so widely reported Calipari wanted to take Kobe in the draft that I don't think any proof needs to be presented. Yet despite his interest he ended up taking Kittles. Why did Calipari have a change of heart?

2. I don't think it's so farfetched to assume that Kobe was an interesting enough prospect that he would be picked by a lotto team, and he somehow managed to land on a team armed only with the 24th pick.

3. Kobe only working out with the Nets and the Lakers was an event that was disclosed by Am Tellem himself. If Kobe did work out with several other teams what does Tellem get by lying? And if we are to believe Tellem's narrative then how come a potential lottery prospect only worked out with two teams with one team so far down the draft that the chance of getting him is remote?

4. If West and Tellem told Kobe that they will try to scare the other teams off so he has a bigger chance to play for the Lakers and Kobe said "No, I will play for whoever takes me in the draft and I will prove my worth with my play", then no matter how many times Tellem and West spread rumors about Kobe not willing to play for a bad team Kobe can simply come out and say he will play for any team that drafted him, thus butchering any chance of Kobe going to the Lakers.

5. Rumors about Kobe only willing to play for LA did spread, and Kobe did not do anything to dispel that rumor.

Because of those discrepancies I have reasons to believe that Kobe was the one who decided to pave his road to LA. This isn't to say that he won't report to camp if another team drafted him, but he had the Lakers much higher up on his list than every other team and he wanted Tellem and West to do their best so he doesn't get drafted by anyone else.

[LLcoleJ]

How does it not make sense? Even if it didn't, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what he wrote and your statement was completely unnecessary.

OT: At the end of the day it was ultimately down to Kobe's decision.

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

Please tell me how "This quote makes no sense" was a necessary comment.

the onus is on you clarify the social experiment ? Victim and explain who that is relevant to this discussion z

[kulo]

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

Please tell me how "This quote makes no sense" was a necessary comment.

the onus is on you clarify the social experiment ? Victim and explain who that is relevant to this discussion z

The onus is not on me and isn't on anyone, you trashed the comprehension in this thread. Yet, you are so naive that you seem to have to take his "Social Experiment" and "Victim" comments literally and completely out of proportion. It was obvious what his point was and if you cannot understand that then I have no business trying to argue with you.
FYI, I don't really care about what's being discussed as it is almost 20 years ago. Just found your reply quite Ironic.

[dockingsched]

If only Charlotte hadn't traded him...

They had no choice. Kobe said he wouldn't play for them. He always wanted to play for the Lakers.

hornets gm has said on record that kobe was never on their radar and they agreed to the trade prior to the draft without knowing who the lakers even wanted. when the 13th pick came up the lakers finally told them they wanted kobe. they would've never even considered taking kobe if it wasn't for the agreed upon trade.

[LLcoleJ]

A couple things.

Kobe was a 17 year old kid, entering the draft. The only power plays were made by Jerry West and Kobe's agent. Only because The Lakers wanted Kobe and not the other way around.

That power play is only possible if Kobe was willing to go along with it, and Kobe was happy to do it. The decision to not scare off other potential suitors was still in Kobe's hands.

On top of that, at best he was the 8th seed in the draft. Think about that for a moment.

No. He was #8 at the worst. He worked out for the Nets first, then the Lakers, and because West was so interested in Kobe his camp decided to tell everyone else that Kobe will not attend their workout, at least that's how the story went according to Tellem. Only the Nets and the Lakers knew what Kobe could be capable of.

To assert, that he declared for the draft and said I will only play for the lakers is moronic and lacks common sense. It didn't happen that way. Stop pretending like it did.

He certainly didn't say it outright, but he made it so difficult for bottom tier teams to pick him that it would be sensible to suspect that Kobe had intended things to work out the way it did. Aside from the lottery teams not getting to see Kobe play he was also a HS prospect in an era where teams are unsure if players with no college experience are worth the gamble. So despite the hype, Kobe is a mystery to rebuilding teams and they are afraid to take a chance with him in a relatively deep draft.

As for your insert about Kobe working out with many teams, if Kobe did work out with multiple teams then why were the Nets and the Lakers the only teams to express interest in drafting him? Was Calipari and West the only guys who saw potential in Kobe? That's a possibility but a rather difficult assumption to make.

Picky? That's what this discussion has turned into? Picky?.... and common sense? I wish it was being used here. Simply reading and comprehending the much public information on this topic will tell you the story. Not the wild narrative spin you keep making out of this.

There's enough information out there to suspect that Kobe played a large role in him coming to LA. There are several red flags if we are to believe that Kobe had no influence in the Lakers landing him.

1. It was so widely reported Calipari wanted to take Kobe in the draft that I don't think any proof needs to be presented. Yet despite his interest he ended up taking Kittles. Why did Calipari have a change of heart?

2. I don't think it's so farfetched to assume that Kobe was an interesting enough prospect that he would be picked by a lotto team, and he somehow managed to land on a team armed only with the 24th pick.

3. Kobe only working out with the Nets and the Lakers was an event that was disclosed by Am Tellem himself. If Kobe did work out with several other teams what does Tellem get by lying? And if we are to believe Tellem's narrative then how come a potential lottery prospect only worked out with two teams with one team so far down the draft that the chance of getting him is remote?

4. If West and Tellem told Kobe that they will try to scare the other teams off so he has a bigger chance to play for the Lakers and Kobe said "No, I will play for whoever takes me in the draft and I will prove my worth with my play", then no matter how many times Tellem and West spread rumors about Kobe not willing to play for a bad team Kobe can simply come out and say he will play for any team that drafted him, thus butchering any chance of Kobe going to the Lakers.

5. Rumors about Kobe only willing to play for LA did spread, and Kobe did not do anything to dispel that rumor.

Because of those discrepancies I have reasons to believe that Kobe was the one who decided to pave his road to LA. This isn't to say that he won't report to camp if another team drafted him, but he had the Lakers much higher up on his list than every other team and he wanted Tellem and West to do their best so he doesn't get drafted by anyone else.

I stopped reading at he was # 8 at worst. How is that true? He worked out for the Sizers, Clippers, Celtics etc.. they all could have taken him. And if were going to argue in hindsight they should have but he went 13th ( with a previous deal on the table and the hornets getting notified 5 minutes before the draft to pick him) with the ONLY interest at 8 Those are the fact and don't line up with your theory one bit.