The Defense thread 2024 (Final DPOY vote)

[SOUL]

I don't think one can just say "Isaac can play 30 MPG" because he hasn't for a while now. If he could, he would be doing that lol. Thus, I don't think he deserves any sort of award if he's only doing it with 15 less mpg.. unless he stays healthy the rest of the year and still has THIS level of impact, which is already very high.

That being said, he isn't some savant because he's basically a closer in baseball and just defends, he was legit that insane before he had his first major injury with a bunch of minutes as well, lots of stocks, etc. I actually think in some ways he's a bit scarier now as a defender because he isn't biting at everything and just has people dribbling aimlessly before giving it up, or begrudgingly challenging him.

[life_saver]

Gobert should be heavy favorite

[mcmurphy]

Our best lineup is Wendell, Isaac, Banchero, Franz, and Suggs. They could very well start Isaac a few times with that lineup. I think the goal is to make the playoffs and play that lineup as much as they can. I think his offense will get better. His rebounding, especially offensive rebounding, has been great. He converts his offensive-rebounding into baskets.

Defense is where his special. He can make Giannis, Haliburton, Towns, or Doncic look like average players when he guards them.



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Shooting and offense seems to be a problem with that unit. In what terms is that the best line-up? Net rating?
And like cupcakesnake asked, how many minutes could Jonathan play if there was no minutes restriction?

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**SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT**

In 10 games (46 minutes) the “death lineup” of Dunn/Sexton/Fontecchio/Lauri/Kessler has posted an offensive rating of 134.9, a defensive rating of 105.8, and a net rating of 29.1.

only replacing Collins with Kessler into Utah starting lineup

[basketballRob]

Shooting and offense seems to be a problem with that unit. In what terms is that the best line-up? Net rating?
And like cupcakesnake asked, how many minutes could Jonathan play if there was no minutes restriction?

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**SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT**

In 10 games (46 minutes) the “death lineup” of Dunn/Sexton/Fontecchio/Lauri/Kessler has posted an offensive rating of 134.9, a defensive rating of 105.8, and a net rating of 29.1.

only replacing Collins with Kessler into Utah starting lineup

Nice. Isaac has played with other players in the starting lineup and had the same results. They replaced Suggs with Harris for about 5 minutes and had the same results.

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[cupcakesnake]

About to end the guard poll and switch over to wings. Thought I'd try to get some input before posting it.

Here's my first pass at a top 9:

OG Anunoby
Herb Jones
Jaden McDaniels
Jonathan Isaac
Dillon Brooks
Kawhi Leonard
Isaac Okoro
Jayson Tatum
Aaron Gordon

Other players I think deserve consideration:

Jalen Williams
Ausar Thompson
Franz Wagner
Dorian Finney-Smith
Scottie Barnes
Mikal Bridges
Matisse Thybulle
Kyle Anderson

Also, wasn't sure what to do with the extremely hybrid guys like Giannis and Draymond. Should I put them in a poll with bigs or change this to "wings/forwards". For all-defensive purposes, perimeter oriented wings (like Herb Jones and Jaden McDaniels) have to compete with big forwards like Giannis and Evan Mobley.

[_jin]

KCP needs to be included, I'd probably take him second after OG. I'm not sure Jaden McDaniels deserves to be there, he's been a bit disappointing whenever I watched Wolves and he fouls way too much to stay on the floor.
Jonathan Isaac is an odd case. He's probably the best defender here but he doesnt play enough to warrant inclusion, he has played just over 500 minutes, that's 14 games worth of starter minutes, it's much easier to use all your energy to defend over 15mins per game than doing it over 30+mins.

[basketballRob]

KCP needs to be included, I'd probably take him second after OG. I'm not sure Jaden McDaniels deserves to be there, he's been a bit disappointing whenever I watched Wolves and he fouls way too much to stay on the floor.
Jonathan Isaac is an odd case. He's probably the best defender here but he doesnt play enough to warrant inclusion, he has played just over 500 minutes, that's 14 games worth of starter minutes, it's much easier to use all your energy to defend over 15mins per game than doing it over 30+mins.

His minutes restriction is finally starting to be lifted and he's averaging around 20 mpg in his last 10 games. If it was the playoffs, he might get 25-30 mpg.

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[_jin]

KCP needs to be included, I'd probably take him second after OG. I'm not sure Jaden McDaniels deserves to be there, he's been a bit disappointing whenever I watched Wolves and he fouls way too much to stay on the floor.
Jonathan Isaac is an odd case. He's probably the best defender here but he doesnt play enough to warrant inclusion, he has played just over 500 minutes, that's 14 games worth of starter minutes, it's much easier to use all your energy to defend over 15mins per game than doing it over 30+mins.

His minutes restriction is finally starting to be lifted and he's averaging around 20 mpg in his last 10 games. If it was the playoffs, he might get 25-30 mpg.

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You dont need to convince me, I said he's probably the best defender but you can't argue that he needs to play more to be considered. He shouldnt worry about individual accolades this season and focus on staying healthy and gradually increase his load so he can be in contention for defensive awards next season.

[basketballRob]

KCP needs to be included, I'd probably take him second after OG. I'm not sure Jaden McDaniels deserves to be there, he's been a bit disappointing whenever I watched Wolves and he fouls way too much to stay on the floor.
Jonathan Isaac is an odd case. He's probably the best defender here but he doesnt play enough to warrant inclusion, he has played just over 500 minutes, that's 14 games worth of starter minutes, it's much easier to use all your energy to defend over 15mins per game than doing it over 30+mins.

His minutes restriction is finally starting to be lifted and he's averaging around 20 mpg in his last 10 games. If it was the playoffs, he might get 25-30 mpg.

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You dont need to convince me, I said he's probably the best defender but you can't argue that he needs to play more to be considered. He shouldnt worry about individual accolades this season and focus on staying healthy and gradually increase his load so he can be in contention for defensive awards next season.

He won't be eligible for any awards, and I don't think he's worried about it. I'm just pointing out that his defense has looked great in 20 mpg lately. The main thing is to continue bringing him back very slowly. I think he's at around 80% now.

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[cupcakesnake]

KCP needs to be included, I'd probably take him second after OG. I'm not sure Jaden McDaniels deserves to be there, he's been a bit disappointing whenever I watched Wolves and he fouls way too much to stay on the floor.
Jonathan Isaac is an odd case. He's probably the best defender here but he doesnt play enough to warrant inclusion, he has played just over 500 minutes, that's 14 games worth of starter minutes, it's much easier to use all your energy to defend over 15mins per game than doing it over 30+mins.

KCP is in the guards poll right now. He's Denver's main point of attack defender and screen navigator. He almost always defends opponents best guard, plays 86% of his minutes listed at SG (bballref), and at 6'4.5" he's way more guard sized than wing/forward sized.

I think you have to make a better case against Jaden, considering his pedigree as the primary stopper on by far the league's best defense. You're right that he does foul a lot for a wing, and some of that is a lack of discipline. But it's not like he's fouling off the charts. The Wolves ask him to be super aggressive against the league's biggest stars. His foul rate is similar to other aggressive perimeter stoppers like Lu Dort, Anthony Black, Jalen Suggs, Kris Dunn, Dillon Brooks, and Ausar Thompson.

Isaac's minutes have been trending up. He's been more of a 20mpg player lately and is the best per minute defender in the NBA. It is easier to defend harder in less minutes but A) No one else is doing that, and B) Before the injuries, Isaac was bringing similar defensive impact in bigger minutes. He's not going to be eligible for the all-defense team though, so I probably shouldn't include him in the poll.

[Klomp]

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[bisme37]

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[Curmudgeon]

Is JJJ not a wing?

[Klomp]

Does this count as good defense?

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[Satch]

Does this count as good defense?

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Its a one four zero zone thats needs some refinement

[firedavidkahn]

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Obvious Rudy is ridiculous but check out Wemby. Finally started to find his grove lately. Dude is going to be prime Rudy on defense while probably being the best offensive player in the league when he gets in his prime. Scary

[eric365]

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Obvious Rudy is ridiculous but check out Wemby. Finally started to find his grove lately. Dude is going to be prime Rudy on defense while probably being the best offensive player in the league when he gets in his prime. Scary

French national team will have 45 - 40 scores at the olympics
All time great defense but G league level point guard

[cupcakesnake]

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Obvious Rudy is ridiculous but check out Wemby. Finally started to find his grove lately. Dude is going to be prime Rudy on defense while probably being the best offensive player in the league when he gets in his prime. Scary

Starting as soon as next year, DPOY will be Wemby's to lose every year. The minute San Antonio puts an average defensive personnel around him, it's just going to be over.

There has simply never been this combination of length, mobility, balance, and reaction speed before.

[mcmurphy]

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Obvious Rudy is ridiculous but check out Wemby. Finally started to find his grove lately. Dude is going to be prime Rudy on defense while probably being the best offensive player in the league when he gets in his prime. Scary

where are in this graph Porzingis and Kessler?

[firedavidkahn]

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Obvious Rudy is ridiculous but check out Wemby. Finally started to find his grove lately. Dude is going to be prime Rudy on defense while probably being the best offensive player in the league when he gets in his prime. Scary

where are in this graph Porzingis and Kessler?

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