The Play In is trash

[shrink]

Another one of Adam Silver’s stupid ideas. Finally showed its ass tonight. It was created to save his precious Lebron. And the Pels will suffer for it.

It’s time for it to end.

Learn how to properly argue a premise with logic. Thanks.

Correct. His premise is “The Play In Tournament was created to save his precious LeBron” and presents no evidence either way.

Moreover he falls into the logical fallacy of saying, “here’s an effect, and I know the cause.” There are hundreds of reasons that Silver could have created the PIT, ranging from simply creating more high-value games to sell to advertisers, reduce tanking, to voodoo from NOP. And even if Silver said, “I only created the PIT for one reason - to put four more teams in post-season ball!” that STILL doesn’t prove it was specifically created for LeBron.

His statement is a logical fail, and pretty poorly-timed, since as others have mentioned, it’s quite possible the Play In Tournament hurt LeBron and the Lakers chances this year.

[RRR3]

The play in has never helped LeBron only hindered him. But it is trash. If OP didn’t come in with a braindead take we could have had a legitimate discussion on giving teams with a lower record changes to get fluke upsets and have teams that finished ahead suffer injuries is absurdly unfair. But alas.

I mean if you finish in the 7th or 8th slot, and lose two play-in games, you were getting swept by the 1 or 2 seed anyway.

That isn’t true at all. The entire league can shoot 3s now so single game variance is huge.

[Saints14]

4 years in I'm still fairly ambivalent on the play-in. I was against it at first, so you can say it's exceeded my expectations. But I just can't get myself to care that much about a playoff before the playoff of the middle-class teams in the NBA. Someone put it perfectly the other day - for the west, with 10 teams all having good records, it's great. For the east, it's hard to convince yourself the Hawks or Bulls deserve any shot at the postseason. I've always felt that the NBA playoffs let too many teams in, so I like that the play-in provides a reward and incentive to finish in the top 6. But on the flip side, you're also rewarding teams that finished in the bottom half of the conference. So it's fine - I probably lean keep it over get rid of it at this point, it just feels like purgatory to me (the stats don't even count for reg season or postseason) waiting for the real playoffs to start

Has your team been in play in? I am not calling you out, but I imagine if your team is in play in, as fan, it has to be exiting. Especially if your team is young. And at the end, idea is to make product more exciting, and it kinda does that somewhat at least. Even for Rockets, who did not make it, it was still exiting to try chase that 10th spot, in what otherwise would have been a tankaton there at the end.

I know the counter argument could be, that play in likely make several first round series more boring, since worse teams could sneak through or at worst, 7th. 8th. seeds just get more tired and even less of a challenge... I think that is definitely an argument.

Going back to the games. I know a lot American NBA basketball fans claim that single elimination tournaments suck. World Cup, FIBA Olympics etc. But I will never buy that there would be sports fans who actually find single elimination games boring.

I will say when the Pelicans made the playoffs from the 10 seed a few years ago, as a young and up and coming team, that was pretty exciting. I can definitely see how it's something cool for young teams, and obviously it's a good deal for the 9 and 10 seeds.

I love single elimination tournaments, March Madness is my favorite - the play in to me feels like the 'First Four' in the NCAA Tournament though, the games before the 'real' tourney. Personally I tend not to watch those games and wait until the real thing starts.

Nothing against those who enjoy it. Just not something I particularly care much about

[phanman]

What a garbage thread.

Like Silver somehow pushed a button and injured a red hot Zion in the 4th quarter. In case you didn't actually watch the game, it was Z who rallied his team to erase that 11pt deficit to tie the game at 93 with his own personal 7pt + 1 ast(Jose 3) run. Plus he actually played great defense against LeBron in that stretch and had the all momentum at home to finish them out.

[UcanUwill]

4 years in I'm still fairly ambivalent on the play-in. I was against it at first, so you can say it's exceeded my expectations. But I just can't get myself to care that much about a playoff before the playoff of the middle-class teams in the NBA. Someone put it perfectly the other day - for the west, with 10 teams all having good records, it's great. For the east, it's hard to convince yourself the Hawks or Bulls deserve any shot at the postseason. I've always felt that the NBA playoffs let too many teams in, so I like that the play-in provides a reward and incentive to finish in the top 6. But on the flip side, you're also rewarding teams that finished in the bottom half of the conference. So it's fine - I probably lean keep it over get rid of it at this point, it just feels like purgatory to me (the stats don't even count for reg season or postseason) waiting for the real playoffs to start

Has your team been in play in? I am not calling you out, but I imagine if your team is in play in, as fan, it has to be exiting. Especially if your team is young. And at the end, idea is to make product more exciting, and it kinda does that somewhat at least. Even for Rockets, who did not make it, it was still exiting to try chase that 10th spot, in what otherwise would have been a tankaton there at the end.

I know the counter argument could be, that play in likely make several first round series more boring, since worse teams could sneak through or at worst, 7th. 8th. seeds just get more tired and even less of a challenge... I think that is definitely an argument.

Going back to the games. I know a lot American NBA basketball fans claim that single elimination tournaments suck. World Cup, FIBA Olympics etc. But I will never buy that there would be sports fans who actually find single elimination games boring.

I will say when the Pelicans made the playoffs from the 10 seed a few years ago, as a young and up and coming team, that was pretty exciting. I can definitely see how it's something cool for young teams, and obviously it's a good deal for the 9 and 10 seeds.

I love single elimination tournaments, March Madness is my favorite - the play in to me feels like the 'First Four' in the NCAA Tournament though, the games before the 'real' tourney. Personally I tend not to watch those games and wait until the real thing starts.

Nothing against those who enjoy it. Just not something I particularly care much about

I see your point, in a way, or you could argue flat out, play in is just a thing that stalls the real thing. I didn't even think of it, but it is true, and I doubt any of us really believe any play in teams are there to win at the end. Maybe if Heat won last year, narrative would have changed, but even that is seen as an outlier, and Heat won plenty, still people do not care. We have Lebron, Zion, Steph and Embiid in here, but we are just waiting for the real thing to happen.

[playoffs]

The play-in is great! Makes the regular season much more watchable

[tbhawksfan1]

Just look at the standings and it's clear that the play in had no affect on who made the playoffs: 7 games between #8 and #9 in the East and 3 games between #8 and #9 in the West. The tiers were clearly established and the play in giving a non-deserving team another shot despite 82 games is a stupid joke

Also not close record wise between #10 and #11 in either league. If you think that jostling for sixth seed is all that then that's on you.

I think that 82 games more than decides the teams

[Raps in 4]

I agree. Just not for the reason you've presented.

[GamecockFan1024]

I mean I agree with you that the play in is pretty worthless. Definitely not worth watching.

[Dubnation]

[ryguy613]

Another one of Adam Silver’s stupid ideas. Finally showed its ass tonight. It was created to save his precious Lebron. And the Pels will suffer for it.

It’s time for it to end.

bro what are you even talking about? The lakers have never been in the 9-10 spot any of the 3 seasons they've been in the playin. That literally means LeBron has been forced to play at least 1 extra game just to secure a playoff spot he would have otherwise already earned. not sure if youre trolling, but if not, your take is the only trash i see.

[ryguy613]

What a garbage thread.

Like Silver somehow pushed a button and injured a red hot Zion in the 4th quarter. In case you didn't actually watch the game, it was Z who rallied his team to erase that 11pt deficit to tie the game at 93 with his own personal 7pt + 1 ast(Jose 3) run. Plus he actually played great defense against LeBron in that stretch and had the all momentum at home to finish them out.

this is all true, but its actually moot. If the OP had his way, and there was no playin, the Lakers would have already secured a playoff spot without needing to beat NO, with or without Zion's injury. Not only that, but in this instance the 8th spot would be PREFFERABLE to the 7th spot for the Lakers, so LeBron was essentially forced to play an extra game for the reward of getting the worse first round matchup. Theres nothing about the playin that has helped the lakers even a little bit.

[Nuntius]

We watched them orchestrate Kobe going to LA and Luka going to Dallas.

What? The league orchestrated Luka going to Dallas? How did they do it? Did the league have dirt on Vlade and forced him to pick Bagley so Luka could go to Dallas?

He's apparently a Kings fan so makes sense. Easier to believe that stupid conspiracy than live the reality of Kings messing up that pick.

I didn't even know that such a conspiracy existed. It doesn't sound like a very good one either so it just caught me by surprise

[Bank Shot]

I'm so-so on it. The games itself are fun but I don't love that basically anyone who wants to make the play-in makes the play-in. The only teams that wanted to make it but didn't are Brooklyn and Houston.

[phanman]

Just look at the standings and it's clear that the play in had no affect on who made the playoffs: 7 games between #8 and #9 in the East and 3 games between #8 and #9 in the West. The tiers were clearly established and the play in giving a non-deserving team another shot despite 82 games is a stupid joke

Also not close record wise between #10 and #11 in either league. If you think that jostling for sixth seed is all that then that's on you.

I think that 82 games more than decides the teams

The play-in wasn't created to determine who makes the playoffs, it was to curb late season tanking and make regular season games more meaningful. The biggest example of it being a smashing success can simply be proven by seeing how many playoff-like games we had in the final week with playoff seeding up in the air. Jostling for the protection that the 6th seed provides is precisely why the play-ins is successful. Just look at what happened on the final day of the season:
- T'Wolves lost to the Suns which dropped them to 3rd (they had Denver tiebreaker if they won)
- Suns get the 6th seed over the Pelicans with the tie breaker with their lost to the Lakers dropping them into the play-ins at 7th
- Lakers move up to their A-Side of the play-ins with two shots which drops the Kings down to the 9th to have to win 2 games

This type of action would have never happened this late in the season, let alone the final day of the RS. Looking at the East, only 4 games separated the 8th seed from the 2nd seed and in the West 2 games between the 4th seed and the 7th. You really don't think those teams turned it up late in the year to avoid dropping to 7th?

[Homer38]

I'm so-so on it. The games itself are fun but I don't love that basically anyone who wants to make the play-in makes the play-in. The only teams that wanted to make it but didn't are Brooklyn and Houston.

A huge reason why it was because they did not have their own pick this year!

[nikster]

What? The league orchestrated Luka going to Dallas? How did they do it? Did the league have dirt on Vlade and forced him to pick Bagley so Luka could go to Dallas?

He's apparently a Kings fan so makes sense. Easier to believe that stupid conspiracy than live the reality of Kings messing up that pick.

I didn't even know that such a conspiracy existed. It doesn't sound like a very good one either so it just caught me by surprise

It was a first for me too

[hauntedcomputer]

I'd post but I gotta watch me some 'yins.

[FarBeyondDriven]

We watched them orchestrate Kobe going to LA and Luka going to Dallas.

What? The league orchestrated Luka going to Dallas? How did they do it? Did the league have dirt on Vlade and forced him to pick Bagley so Luka could go to Dallas?

He's apparently a Kings fan so makes sense. Easier to believe that stupid conspiracy than live the reality of Kings messing up that pick.

how dare you?!

my reasoning is:

a) Luka was a phenom and easily the best Euro prospect of all-time. While there were some legit concerns about him they were nowhere near the concerns of the players taken around him in the draft (Ayton, Bagley, Trae, Jackson)

b) all the teams that "passed" on him were small market teams (PHO, SAC, ATL, MEM) and we should all know by now small markets act as farm systems for larger market teams and teams the NBA has plans for, in this example, DAL, who were about to lose Dirk and needed a franchise player to take his place.

c) the trade had to have been worked out prior to the draft and that can't happen unless ATL and DAL know how the draft is going down

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any logical sense why Luka would fall to #5. I could see maybe one of the top 4 teams passing on him for team needs but all of them? FOH. Like Kobe before him, Luka, his camp, the league and those teams all orchestrated this. It's obvious.

[nikster]

What? The league orchestrated Luka going to Dallas? How did they do it? Did the league have dirt on Vlade and forced him to pick Bagley so Luka could go to Dallas?

He's apparently a Kings fan so makes sense. Easier to believe that stupid conspiracy than live the reality of Kings messing up that pick.

how dare you?!

my reasoning is:

a) Luka was a phenom and easily the best Euro prospect of all-time. While there were some legit concerns about him they were nowhere near the concerns of the players taken around him in the draft (Ayton, Bagley, Trae, Jackson)

b) all the teams that "passed" on him were small market teams (PHO, SAC, ATL, MEM) and we should all know by now small markets act as farm systems for larger market teams and teams the NBA has plans for, in this example, DAL, who were about to lose Dirk and needed a franchise player to take his place.

c) the trade had to have been worked out prior to the draft and that can't happen unless ATL and DAL know how the draft is going down

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any logical sense why Luka would fall to #5. I could see maybe one of the top 4 teams passing on him for team needs but all of them? FOH. Like Kobe before him, Luka, his camp, the league and those teams all orchestrated this. It's obvious.

seeing it all written out like that makes it seem even worse