Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

[Dubnation]

JR Smith

I see what you did there...

[One Last Shot]

One thing is clear, LeBron will lead every credible sports website poll on who's the GOAT in the future. It's just a matter of time at this point.

Read on Twitter

"Do you think MJ’s getting nervous? King James almost took his (player poll) GOAT crown this time around, and he’ll do just that next year if this voting trend continues.

In this endless debate, His Airness has experienced serious slippage for the third consecutive poll. Jordan had a huge edge in 2019 (73 percent to LeBron’s 11.9 percent) and was still nearly doubling him in 2023 (58.3 percent to 33 percent). Now the gap is only 3.8 percent.

It makes some sense, though, as James is doing things at this late stage of his career that players this age have never done. And these many feats, it’s quite clear, are changing the way some players see this debate."

[Run DLC]

Kevin Durant is the G.O.A.T

[bledredwine]

I also think it's hilarious that it's a good thing that Lebron needed to switch teams what, three times to get these chips?

I remember when he joined LAL, two of my friends were upset because they thought he destroyed his chances of winning titles, to which I replied "Don't worry. Either Kawhi or Anthony Davis will be on LA next year. That's why he left."

I'm actually tired of being right about these things. Going to LA to win is not a compliment to Lebron.

[ScrantonBulls]

I also think it's hilarious that it's a good thing that Lebron needed to switch teams what, three times to get these chips?

I remember when he joined LAL, two of my friends were upset because they thought he destroyed his chances of winning titles, to which I replied "Don't worry. Either Kawhi or Anthony Davis will be on LA next year. That's why he left."

I'm actually tired of being right about these things. Going to LA to win is not a compliment to Lebron.

It's truly shocking how smart you are. I really expected the Lakers to go after bad players while trying to contend. But going after good players like AD? Truly inconceivable.

[bledredwine]

I also think it's hilarious that it's a good thing that Lebron needed to switch teams what, three times to get these chips?

I remember when he joined LAL, two of my friends were upset because they thought he destroyed his chances of winning titles, to which I replied "Don't worry. Either Kawhi or Anthony Davis will be on LA next year. That's why he left."

I'm actually tired of being right about these things. Going to LA to win is not a compliment to Lebron.

It's truly shocking how smart you are. I really expected the Lakers to go after bad players while trying to contend. But going after good players like AD? Truly inconceivable.

How about actually addressing my point and not some side quest of your own to try and one up me?

Of course LA wants the best players. My point was about fan perspective and that it wasn't an impressive feat from Lebron to
team up yet again.
You should know that after reading. I made it crystal clear.

This has nothing to do with the FO in LAL. It's Lebron talk and how negatives are painted as positives
by his fans

[NbaAllDay]

People trying so hard to discredit Lebron it's actually an obsession. For every Lebron 'stan' there is a hater posting about him twice as much.

You have people in the last few pages saying that "If MJ had motivation to play better at the Wizards he would" like you arnt just admiting his mentally weaker than Lebron who you admit is still pushing his hardest? Or does that not fit the narrative.

Or how 'if' MJ didn't quit 3 times he wouldn't have declined as much while ignoring him specifically saying he was burnt out multiple times and those breaks very likely extending his career more than anything.

Most of the other reasoning are nonsense but these made me laugh. On one hand MJ is a mental killer and Lebron is weak, yet one player is not 'motivated to play' in year 15 and quits twice in his apparent prime, while the other is still playing elite in Year 21 without a singular break and 5-6 more deep playoff runs.

Ironically the expectations and pressure these people put on a Lebron at 39, something they never did with MJ, is them saying they expect more from Lebron. Wouldn't do that if you didn't think he was better...

Have no issues with people saying MJ is the GOAT because he has a legit argument but the level of mental gymnastics for MJ is on a whole other level.

[ScrantonBulls]

I also think it's hilarious that it's a good thing that Lebron needed to switch teams what, three times to get these chips?

I remember when he joined LAL, two of my friends were upset because they thought he destroyed his chances of winning titles, to which I replied "Don't worry. Either Kawhi or Anthony Davis will be on LA next year. That's why he left."

I'm actually tired of being right about these things. Going to LA to win is not a compliment to Lebron.

It's truly shocking how smart you are. I really expected the Lakers to go after bad players while trying to contend. But going after good players like AD? Truly inconceivable.

How about actually addressing my point and not some side quest of your own to try and one up me?

Of course LA wants the best players. My point was about fan perspective and that it wasn't an impressive feat from Lebron to
team up yet again.
You should know that after reading. I made it crystal clear.

This has nothing to do with the FO in LAL. It's Lebron talk and how negatives are painted as positives
by his fans

Acting like players should play with other bad players is such a loser mentality. it's just a whiney point people bring up when they dislike a player. It doesn't matter to me whether a teams is out together via free agency or though drafting and trades. It's not a positive or negative. I suppose if you're arguing that it shows a players versatility, then somebody could it is a positive. I still don't see it as a positive or negative.

What matters is how the individual player performed given the circumstances.

[Mr B]

Kareem is the real GOAT. Then Jordan then Labron.

[Zadeh]

Tim Duncan, never has losing records, win with complete different teammates. Only once his team win less than 50 games. That year schedule was 50 games and sas is champion in that year.

Only Bill Russell, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird win in their all career even jabbar has one losing season.

In my list
1- Tim Duncan
2- Kaream Abdul Jabbar
3- Larry Bird
4- Magic Johnson
5- Michael Jordan (If there was no Stern probably never has got his rings)
6- Lebron James (soon Jokic)
7- Nikola Jokic

[xchange55]

Who voted for this clown?

Watch on YouTube

[PassMeTheBall]

Jordan. The only ones that have a legit argument in my opinion for GOAT are Jordan, Kareem & Russell. Lebron always gets a pass for all of his losing for some reason. How are you the GOAT when you're 4 for 21 in your career & had so much help since 2011? Magic won 5 in the span of only 9 years, with 2 of them being when Kareem was in his 40s already yet Lebron can't even tie that in 21 years? If he gets praised for his longevity than his legacy needs to also take a hit if he loses so much too.

[ScrantonBulls]

Jordan. The only ones that have a legit argument in my opinion for GOAT are Jordan, Kareem & Russell. Lebron always gets a pass for all of his losing for some reason. How are you the GOAT when you're 4 for 21 in your career & had so much help since 2011? Magic won 5 in the span of only 9 years, with 2 of them being when Kareem was in his 40s already yet Lebron can't even tie that in 21 years? If he gets praised for his longevity than his legacy needs to also take a hit if he loses so much too.

There's this thing called "context". People usually look at it when evaluating players. It's quite important.

[NoStatsGuy]

jalen brunson

[PassMeTheBall]

Jordan. The only ones that have a legit argument in my opinion for GOAT are Jordan, Kareem & Russell. Lebron always gets a pass for all of his losing for some reason. How are you the GOAT when you're 4 for 21 in your career & had so much help since 2011? Magic won 5 in the span of only 9 years, with 2 of them being when Kareem was in his 40s already yet Lebron can't even tie that in 21 years? If he gets praised for his longevity than his legacy needs to also take a hit if he loses so much too.

There's this thing called "context". People usually look at it when evaluating players. It's quite important.

Yeah, context like forming a superteam with a player that already won on his own as the #1 option as well as one of the greatest PFs in the league at the time as his 3rd option? He also played in the weakest Eastern Conference in decades in the 2010s to get to the Finals way easier with superteams where he always had the best teammates. His 2 Miami rings do almost nothing at all to enhance his legacy. They're just a bit more legacy enhancing than Durant's rings.

[ScrantonBulls]

Jordan. The only ones that have a legit argument in my opinion for GOAT are Jordan, Kareem & Russell. Lebron always gets a pass for all of his losing for some reason. How are you the GOAT when you're 4 for 21 in your career & had so much help since 2011? Magic won 5 in the span of only 9 years, with 2 of them being when Kareem was in his 40s already yet Lebron can't even tie that in 21 years? If he gets praised for his longevity than his legacy needs to also take a hit if he loses so much too.

There's this thing called "context". People usually look at it when evaluating players. It's quite important.

Yeah, context like forming a superteam with a player that already won on his own as the #1 option as well as one of the greatest PFs in the league at the time as his 3rd option? He also played in the weakest Eastern Conference in decades in the 2010s to get to the Finals way easier with superteams where he always had the best teammates. His 2 Miami rings do almost nothing at all to enhance his legacy. They're just a bit more legacy enhancing than Durant's rings.

You're getting close! Next thing to remember is that there are 5 players on the court for a team, and also bench players. Then you have to factor in the opponents and their quality/strength. And last but not least, you should look at the statistics of the players as well. The numbers are very important. Context!

[-Sammy-]

It's still MJ for me. James is almost certainly the second-best player ever, though I think he may not have the second-greatest career.

I think the off-court stuff has hurt his legacy more than his zealots tend to admit (the LeGM stuff, influencing rosters in ways that turn out to be sub-optimal, not always conducting himself with the best decorum, etc.), but his haters are wrong, too, for factoring those things into their evaluation of him as a ballplayer. A guy can simultaneously be a great player and bad at the other stuff.

Solely on talent/skill/basketball ability, he may be unsurpassed (so far-- until Wemby ascends), but he probably cost himself a few rings by being in some ways high-maintenance and by not always being a great evaluator of talent and roster fit.

[skones]

One thing is clear, LeBron will lead every credible sports website poll on who's the GOAT in the future. It's just a matter of time at this point.

Read on Twitter

[i]"Do you think MJ’s getting nervous? King James almost took his (player poll) GOAT crown this time around, and he’ll do just that next year if this voting trend continues.

Kids who were born after Jordan's dominance and are currently playing against him in the league are not, "credible." You're clowning yourself by thinking as such when 10% think Kobe, a player who was never the single best player in the league at any point in his career, is the GOAT.

[MavsDirk41]

I cant take a goat poll seriously with Kobe and no Kareem. Its just the players voting for their favorite player.

[PassMeTheBall]

There's this thing called "context". People usually look at it when evaluating players. It's quite important.

You're getting close! Next thing to remember is that there are 5 players on the court for a team, and also bench players. Then you have to factor in the opponents and their quality/strength. And last but not least, you should look at the statistics of the players as well. The numbers are very important. Context!

Okay, what's the context to Miami's 2011 Finals loss? Or for playing horrible in 2008 & 2010 against the Celtics? Or playing terrible in the 2007 Finals as an individual player? Or 2014 Finals the vast majority of his stats in almost every game were in a single half while he disappeared in the other half as well as getting blown out by a record Finals margin. Or playing in the weakest East since the 1970s & had the best teammates in the East from 2011-2017 & still only won 3 rings while in the East. Put him in the much tougher Western Conference all those years & he doesn't make anywhere near the same amount of Finals. He did play tough Finals opponents but he wasn't even clutch in 2013 or 2016. If Ray allen misses the 3 than Spurs win the title & there's big odds the Cavs lose without Kyrie's clutch shot in game 7. I'll take Magic's 5 titles in the span of only 9 years where for the last 2 titles Kareem was in his 40's so he can't be criticized for having Kareem as a teammate.

Lebron is going on year 22 next year & still only has 4 titles with so much help for the last 13 out of 14 seasons (2019 his team was ok at best.) I just don't see any way he's the GOAT or top 2 unless you overlook all the losing throughout his career & pretend his Miami superteam rings are on the same exact legacy level as the 1995 Rockets or 2011 Mavericks titles. Lebron is an All-Time great which it would be crazy to say he's not. I just think he's overrated by the media & by so many fans that I think bought into the whole MJ vs. Lebron debate & now they think it's only between them 2 & overlook literally everyone else's case for top 2.