The Defense thread 2024 (Final DPOY vote)

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Who's your 2024 DPOY

Rudy Gobert
15
50%
Victor Wembanyama
10
33%
Bam Adebayo
0
No votes
Alex Caruso
1
3%
Jalen Suggs
0
No votes
Anthony Davis
0
No votes
Herb Jones
2
7%
Derrick White
2
7%
Isaiah Hartenstein
0
No votes
Other (List them but remember than Isaac, Draymond, OG etc. are not eligible!)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#81 » by IceColdCubano » Mon Nov 6, 2023 5:18 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:By the end of the season I think we’ll be looking at:

Gobert
Mobley
Wembanyama
Jackson Jr

Adebayo to me is slightly below DPOY-level in the regular season. I actually think come playoffs is really when you see him become more valuable due to his switchiness/versatility.



What are you talking about? BAM is number 1 in Defensive Isolation metrics. I get it he doen'st get the pretty looking blocks, he actually stays grounded and forces a miss and does the work early so he doesn't have to come flying in from the weakside, switches on anyone and forces them to pass because they would rather not go at him in Isolation. It's really disrespectful at this point, nobody in the league can guard 1-5 like he can, there a couple that guard 1-5 except he does it better than them. Miami was one of the more clutch teams this past season even with their crap record, that was because he would clamp anyone that needed to be clamped come the end of games and let Jimmy do his thing and be a closer on the offense side. Bam is literary the same player in the regular season as he is in the playoffs, the fact other fans actually watch him in the playoffs that's another story.

Defense is more than just defending in isolation. I’m not denying that Bam is an elite defender. I just have him a step below some of the other guys. He doesn’t provide the same rim protection and rebounding edges, which hurts his overall value on that end.

And I didn’t say he’s a different player in the playoffs. I said his value goes up in the playoffs. Because with playoff game planning coming into play, defensive versatility and the ability to hold your own against switch hunting offenses become more important.


Funny when I drill through the stats, it stills says that Bam defends the rim better than Gobert, Mobley, Wemb, Jackson Jr. If you filter 100 minutes played, Rim attempts greater than 30%, field goal percentage difference of more than 10% affected at the rim, shows Bam first on the list. Again what I was trying to say was, that Bam isn't just a great Isolation defender, its that he also defends the rim better without having to block shots, his deterrence comes different its done earlier in the shot clock, he forces players into bad shots into bad spots, and makes them uncomfortable, lowering their FG% without having to block their shots, he stays grounded and doesn't commit fouls like the guys you mentioned above. There are multiple ways of defending the rim and like you said when the defenses tighten up in the playoffs he is a known commodity while the others fall through the wayside in obscurity. Defense is also about scheme, its team oriented, in the playoffs team scheme to take you out of your comfort hence players like Gobert get taken out of the game, you can't do that to Bam. Miami has always been about team rebounding, he still finishes the season with 9-10 rebounds, but he is asked to cover the perimeter way more, even in percentile rebounding per minute within 10ft from basket he outdoes most centers on defensive rebounding per minute basis. So its not like he is a bad rebounder he is actually elite, its a Heat system reason why he isn't required to do it.
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Re: Wemby for defensive player of the year 

Post#82 » by pilkoids » Mon Nov 6, 2023 8:38 pm

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:The man is just shutting it down. 5 blocks today so far. He just shut Barns down. Can he do it as a rookie?


What game did you watch and in which universe?
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#83 » by BadWolf » Mon Nov 6, 2023 9:29 pm

Scottie was shut down till he wasn't. Wemby kinda disappeared till the OT.

The answer to the OP is Gobert for now.and it's a travesty he's not even in the poll.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#84 » by robbie84 » Tue Nov 7, 2023 12:38 am

Derrick White has been excellent for the Celtics. Aaron Gordon has been solid too. Ultimate switchable big and physical. Severely under rated due to the Nuggs not being known as a defensive team, but he's the anchor right?

Kristaps Porzingis is incredible protecting the rim. Dude alters and blocks so many goddang shots.
One day Marcus Smart will be defensive player of the year, mark my words.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#85 » by Bob Ross » Tue Nov 7, 2023 2:52 am

Mitchell Robinson
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#86 » by firedavidkahn » Tue Nov 7, 2023 4:06 am

Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#87 » by _jin » Tue Nov 7, 2023 1:04 pm

Gobert looks back to his old physical self. Seems like his back problems were really bothering him last season, he looked like a completely different player. He even seemed more mobile than before at times yesterday, he had a few defensive sequences on the perimeter where his feet looked so quick.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#88 » by IceColdCubano » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:52 pm

firedavidkahn wrote:Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Best defender in the world and it’s not close.


I beg to differ.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#89 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:59 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Best defender in the world and it’s not close.


I beg to differ.


Read on Twitter
#FreeBam
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#90 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Nov 7, 2023 4:04 pm

Read on Twitter


We gotta stop giving guys the DPOY who are also played off the court in the playoffs because of their……….DEFENSE
#FreeBam
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#91 » by bisme37 » Tue Nov 7, 2023 4:29 pm

Rudy is a menace at the rim but I was super impressed with Jaden McDaniels last night for Minny. First guy this season who's really bothered Tatum at all and he bothered him quite a bit on a number of plays. Excellent defender.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#92 » by gottamakeit » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:10 pm

bisme37 wrote:Rudy is a menace at the rim but I was super impressed with Jaden McDaniels last night for Minny. First guy this season who's really bothered Tatum at all and he bothered him quite a bit on a number of plays. Excellent defender.


Legler is giving Jaden alot of love in his pod:
cupcakesnake wrote:...no one is forcing you to make up an opinion and post it
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#93 » by firedavidkahn » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:44 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Best defender in the world and it’s not close.


I beg to differ.

Oh wow, 40%? That's cute ;)

Read on Twitter
?t=ibMH5sUCun6CTUh1sPwLRQ&s=19

Rudy is also holding all opponents to -13.4% FG% while Bam is at -1.8%
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#94 » by IceColdCubano » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:15 pm

firedavidkahn wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Best defender in the world and it’s not close.


I beg to differ.

Oh wow, 40%? That's cute ;)

Read on Twitter
?t=ibMH5sUCun6CTUh1sPwLRQ&s=19

Rudy is also holding all opponents to -13.4% FG% while Bam is at -1.8%


means jack squat to me what rudy does at the rim, still doesn't equate to success on the overall game if he can be schemed off the court and that's a fact, he should have a high deterrence rate on FG% just based on his size alone.

Bam still puts those numbers to shame when in Isolation at 12.5%, you know the plays that happen in the last 2 minutes to win, when he is on the bench in the playoffs looking at his team trying to close because he is a liability.

Additionally T-wolves defensive rating actually improves when he is off the court, you know why? because positional defense is far better than a lumbering tall center swatting balls at the basket, additionally Mini also has some guys playing elite defense this year, their bought in.

Just for reference sake lets revise our current situation:
Rudy's only thing he does better than Bam on defense is rim protection, due to his size and great timing on blocks which is required to be a great shot blocker. Even then the percentage isn't as great as the difference between every other isolation defensive metric that Bams wins, to include the fact that Bam also covers 1-5 better than anyone else, and on a pick a roll nobody wants to get Bam. Miami's Defensive rating grows to elite levels when he is on the court, and putrid when off the court, except its the opposite with Rudy, Mini's actually gets better with him on the sidelines. What exactly are you trying to prove?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#95 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:16 pm

firedavidkahn wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Rudy is hands down the DPOY right now. Not even a contest through this very limited sample size.

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Best defender in the world and it’s not close.


I beg to differ.

Oh wow, 40%? That's cute ;)

Read on Twitter
?t=ibMH5sUCun6CTUh1sPwLRQ&s=19

Rudy is also holding all opponents to -13.4% FG% while Bam is at -1.8%


Rudy also gets benched in the playoffs when teams go small and he can’t just sit in the paint anymore more, dude is such an overrated defender it’s unreal. You will never have to take Bam off the court because his defense isn’t up to par lol
#FreeBam
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#96 » by firedavidkahn » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:41 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:

I beg to differ.

Oh wow, 40%? That's cute ;)

[tweet]1721908415096627620[/tweet]?t=ibMH5sUCun6CTUh1sPwLRQ&s=19

Rudy is also holding all opponents to -13.4% FG% while Bam is at -1.8%


Rudy also gets benched in the playoffs when teams go small and he can’t just sit in the paint anymore more, dude is such an overrated defender it’s unreal. You will never have to take Bam off the court because his defense isn’t up to par lol

That's interesting. The topic is about what has been done in 2023-24 though
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#97 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:42 pm

firedavidkahn wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Oh wow, 40%? That's cute ;)

[tweet]1721908415096627620[/tweet]?t=ibMH5sUCun6CTUh1sPwLRQ&s=19

Rudy is also holding all opponents to -13.4% FG% while Bam is at -1.8%


Rudy also gets benched in the playoffs when teams go small and he can’t just sit in the paint anymore more, dude is such an overrated defender it’s unreal. You will never have to take Bam off the court because his defense isn’t up to par lol

That's interesting. The topic is about what has been done in 2023-24 though


So in 2023-24 Rudy still can’t defend if he’s not sitting in the paint and his team is better defensively when he’s off the court
#FreeBam
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#98 » by Kineto » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:48 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Rudy also gets benched in the playoffs when teams go small and he can’t just sit in the paint anymore more, dude is such an overrated defender it’s unreal. You will never have to take Bam off the court because his defense isn’t up to par lol

That's interesting. The topic is about what has been done in 2023-24 though


So in 2023-24 Rudy still can’t defend if he’s not sitting in the paint and his team is better defensively when he’s off the court


Why don't all the teams do it if it's so easy? :lol:
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#99 » by IceColdCubano » Tue Nov 7, 2023 7:10 pm

Kineto wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:That's interesting. The topic is about what has been done in 2023-24 though


So in 2023-24 Rudy still can’t defend if he’s not sitting in the paint and his team is better defensively when he’s off the court


Why don't all the teams do it if it's so easy? :lol:

You mean how Embid does for the sixers, AD for the lakers, KP for the Celtics, Jarret Allen for the Cavs, Brook Lopez for the bucks, Walker Kesler for the Utah Jazz, Chet Holgrem, Wemby, Miles turner, Jarret Jackson Jr, Mitchel Robinson, Etc I could go on, but they all do pretty much the same either pack themselves in the paint, or roam on the edges and shot block from the weakside if the paint is penetrated. However those same teams, are schemed in the playoffs by forcing switches until something gives and pull them out of the paint, and they start to become less effective. Guys like Embiid, Brook, KP, AD and others who score just as well, are still top tier players because they still produce on offense, and still a factor to swat some ones shot. The reason Gobert gets taken off the court is because once he is no longer a defensive pillar on the court and is forced to do things he does not do well, he doesn't score on the other side of the court. Players like OG, JJJ, Bam and other guys who can still clamp on perimeter and play small ball center tend to perform way better at end of games when things are precise and there is lots of motion on the floor forcing defensives rotations to cover multiple holes.
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Re: DPOY All-Defense Thread 2024 (first poll up) 

Post#100 » by firedavidkahn » Tue Nov 7, 2023 7:58 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
Kineto wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
So in 2023-24 Rudy still can’t defend if he’s not sitting in the paint and his team is better defensively when he’s off the court


Why don't all the teams do it if it's so easy? :lol:

You mean how Embid does for the sixers, AD for the lakers, KP for the Celtics, Jarret Allen for the Cavs, Brook Lopez for the bucks, Walker Kesler for the Utah Jazz, Chet Holgrem, Wemby, Miles turner, Jarret Jackson Jr, Mitchel Robinson, Etc I could go on, but they all do pretty much the same either pack themselves in the paint, or roam on the edges and shot block from the weakside if the paint is penetrated. However those same teams, are schemed in the playoffs by forcing switches until something gives and pull them out of the paint, and they start to become less effective. Guys like Embiid, Brook, KP, AD and others who score just as well, are still top tier players because they still produce on offense, and still a factor to swat some ones shot. The reason Gobert gets taken off the court is because once he is no longer a defensive pillar on the court and is forced to do things he does not do well, he doesn't score on the other side of the court. Players like OG, JJJ, Bam and other guys who can still clamp on perimeter and play small ball center tend to perform way better at end of games when things are precise and there is lots of motion on the floor forcing defensives rotations to cover multiple holes.

It's easy to just say you haven't watched Gobert at all this year. Watch the tape. Rudy has been the best defender on this team this year which is saying a lot because Jaden is also playing elite right now.

Without Rudy last night the Celtics most likely beat us by double digits. He was that impactful. Even the night he went 0/7 he was still a positive.

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