Human Being wrote:BubbaTee wrote:
Where's Pau going to be this summer? I can tell you where he's not going to be.
Maybe the WCs were the most important thing to Pau way back when, but they aren't now. Maybe they were the most important thing. I remember when the most important thing in my life was going to the 6th grade dance, but today I realize how little it mattered in the big picture.
Welcome to 2010, where Pau has moved on to bigger and better things than trying to beat Team USA's junior varsity team.
ugh... I can't figure you out - you make some good comments and then follow them up with some of the dumbest thing ever (I'm referring to 2006 WC and USA not caring argument).
Of course, Pau was crying at WC because he hadn't played in Olympics before, nor NBA - which is the reason why he was so overwhelmed - just as you in the 6th grade
He is resting because now he realises how stupid he was thinking WC is worth something - and it has absolutely nothing with the fact that he hasn't had any rest for 4 years straight...
If the FIBA WCs were as important as you claim, then they should be the last thing Pau is willing to skip in order to rest. Instead Pau should have skipped the Olympics if they are, as you claim, less important.
BubbaTee wrote:The 2000 US Olympic team was undefeated and won gold, for the 3rd straight Olympics. Average margin of victory in group play was 29 points/game. I know the rest of the world likes to count close losses vs the US as moral victories, but moral victories aren't the same as real victories, and at the end of the day no one cares about moral victories other than losing teams.
And no one cared about the 2002 WCs except for Carlos Arroyo's mom.
so? who are these people? who were complacent fans/players/executives? I wonder who are those morons who watch margin of victory in group games?
In the 2002 WCs (about which you "didn't care") the average margin of victory for USA in group stage was 32.5 points (which includes a LOSS to Argentina) = the average margin of VICTORY in group stage was 38,75! Yet they managed to loss 3 of their final 4 games!
Fun fact: USA was in second place in their group with 32.5 point average margin (Argentina was first with 24.2) and had to play with the 3rd place of the other group Serbia which had average margin of 25, while the first place in that group had average margin of 4.4!!!
IN other words, average margin of victory doesn't mean **** and many other teams also have good margins of victory. And the ones who pay attention to something more than average point margin in group stage saw that Olympic gold wasn't won by 29 point margin, but only because USA was lucky enough for Jasikevicus to miss last second triple in semis and beat France by whooping 10 points in Final - nothing to be complacent about.
And yet there was no strong reaction by USA Basketball following the 2002 WCs. Team USA continued to be assembled as it had been since 1994, thrown together haphazardly with little regard to team chemistry or player roles or suitability for FIBA play. The complacency came from a belief that America's natural basketball superiority would still manage to compensate when the bright lights came on, regardless of whatever hiccups they'd had leading up to the Olympics.
2) 9 of 12 players who got the place in Olympics in 2003 elected not to participate in olympics in 2004. Sounds like the players [don't] care about world championships just as much as Olympic games. And the fans are the ones that make WC sour grapes because USA has actually won some olympics in last 15 years unlike WC.
BubbaTee wrote:Isn't that what I just said, that USA Basketball had grown complacent by 2004?
No, it is what I said - USA was so pissed of that they were humiliated in 2002 that they got one of their strongest teams and qualified for olympics in 2003, but 9 of 12 players didn't care enough for the olympics to lose 2 summers in a row - I guess they realised that Olympics don't mean more than WC and are around the same level as your 6th grade dance (for them).
Maybe one of their strongest FIBA Americas teams, but not up to the standard of Olympic teams outside of 2004. The 2003 team had Nick Collison. Nothing against Collison, but he's not even Christian Laettner. Tim Duncan hates FIBA play. Allen Iverson and Larry Brown would have been the NBA's top-rated soap opera at the time if not for Shaq-Kobe.
2002-03 was a precursor to the 2004 debacle. Again there was a lack of continuity and chemistry in favor of just slapping a bunch of big names together like it was a McDonald's All-American game. George Karl, the 2002 coach, and Paul Pierce, the 2002 leading USA scorer, were both missing in 2003.
3) USA woke up in 2004 and still lost in 2006 WC with almost the same team (minus Kobe) that won in 2008.BubbaTee wrote:Again repeating: the US doesn't care about the WCs, whether in 2002 or 2006 or 2018.
Are you being sarcastic? I guess you are right:
a) all the players after loss in 2006 weren't pissed of and weren't claiming to definitely participate in olympics to take "revenge" and show that USA can still do something on basketball court - they were saying "yes, this loss was expected, we are here on a training camp actually preparing for the olympics in two years";
b) yes, that team wasn't assembled with the sole purpose of wining;
c) I bet before the semis the guys were in huddle like:
Ok, so everyone remember: this is WC and not the olympics. I realise you sacrificed your vacation to train and come to Japan, but remember that we are here to full around, because this is WC and we are not supposed to take this seriously. I realise that some of you have the stupid idea of representing your country or wining, but I repeat - this is not why we are here! Do not take this game seriously - go out and loose - we have to win in 2 years not here!
Players on the court try to win at the end of NBA preseason games too, just as players on the court at the end of NBA Finals games try to win those. It doesn't mean the preseason is comparable to the Finals, even if in the preseason guys in the huddle aren't saying "Let's lose!"
Heck, the reason the US even plays the WCs is to qualify for the Olympics. That alone tells you where the priorities are. The WCs are a stepping stone. The Olympics are the goal. The US doesn't play the Olympics in order to qualify for something else, they play because they're The Olympics.
BubbaTee wrote:You mean like how Spain lost by 30 the first time around?
Besides, I thought no-calls and physical play were supposed to be the norm in FIBA. The NBA is supposed to be the soft one, with all their rules against hand-checking and whatnot.
No, I mean like the finals - the one time they were challenged, i.e. the time you were speaking of.
Yes FIBA rules still allow you to play basketball not whatch referees and free-trows, but shoving your oppent out of bounds is still a violation even under fiba rules (so is traveling).
Well, how much shoving is too much shoving? I don't recall a ton of complaints about the refs swallowing their whistles when it was Greece's Sofo bulling his way through the paint against the US.
BubbaTee wrote: Dirk isn't playing this year. Clearly the WCs aren't as important to him as they were 4 years ago. Possibly because he got a taste of the big time, in 2008. At the Olympics. Once you have Matsuzaka beef, it's hard to go back to Big Macs. .
Awesome. I guess it proves that you are right because, the same logic (been there, done that) cannot and will not be applied in 2012 olympics, reason why 2000 and 2004 teams weren't that strong wasn't because players that already played in olympics didn't care to participate twice, there were no players who declined to participate in 2008 olympics (e.g. Songaila although he blamed it on injury). Moreover, if your logic that USA doesn't care about WC is correct, then I can claim that Dirk has assumed this logic as well since he has played most of his carrier in NBA and thus cannot be used by you as an example.
Rationalize it however you want. If an event is important enough to a person, and that person is physically capable of attending said event, then that person will be there. Dirk was in Beijing, he won't be in Istanbul.
3) Disregarding USA team rosters WC should be stronger tournament than Olympic games. In olympic games there are 12 teams, in WC 24. For example, Europe was represented in Olympics by 6 teams, 9 in WC, and we don't have clear order who are these 6 best teams - they change from time to time.
This is like saying "disregarding the absence of Usain Bolt, this track meet has a very tough 100m field," or "disregarding the absence of Michael Phelps, this swim meet is very tough." What you're disregarding is the #1 athlete/team in the sport.
A Team USA will show up in Istanbul, but it won't be The Team USA. It'd be more like playing the Lakers if Kobe and Pau sat out. Yeah, the jersey would still say Lakers and they would still be the 2x defending champs, but it wouldn't be nearly the same.
Also, if you don't mind, please use the dark green font because that light green is hard to read against a beige background.
