Could the Mavs win 25 games without Dirk?

[DRose4MVP]

Easily. I say 35+ wins w/o Dirk.

[joelafan]

Id say they would be a 38 win team with a healthy butler.

[Brooklyn_34]

I think they could win 25 games.... that would be just about it. I would give them 25-30 wins without Dirk.

I challenge the notion that Dallas is a "deep" team. Compared to what? LA? Boston? Miami? Chicago? San Antonio? Oklahoma?

Most certainly not.

We saw this against LA. Dirk did his part, as usual. The team outside of Dirk shot just over 30%. The depth clearly did not show here.

If your teams second best scorer is a guy like Jason Terry, how deep can your team really be?

If during such an important game like this a washed up player like Peja Stojakovic can be your second leading scorer (13 pts) and JJ Barea your third, how deep is your team?

A guys like that would not even see 15 minutes of playing time on those other elite teams. PERIOD. And I say this as objectively as possible.

Dallas is not deep.

[BooRadley]

People look at rosters and when they recognize most of the names they automatically assume its a deep team. Watch the games. The team is garbage without Dirk.

[Trader_Joe]

People look at rosters and when they recognize most of the names they automatically assume its a deep team. Watch the games. The team is garbage without Dirk.

That's because the team is built around him, not playing without him. Your offense is based around Dirk. It would not be without him there and the team offense and defense would look different. The Mavs entering a season w/o Dirk would be a different team, but not a 2-7 pace team.

Also that 2-7 is hardly reflective of what you guys would be w/o him.
6 Losses to SAS x 2, OKC, ORL, @ MIL, @ IND.

The West I see 30-35 wins w/o Dirk, the East somewhere around .500.

And yes the team is deep.. injuries to Butler and Roddy hurt, but look at the depth and look at the payroll. They may not have other stars, but that doesn't mean they aren't deep.

[ptown08]

Easily over 25 wins. Like poster above mentioned, Dallas runs offense solely for Dirk, without him they would have to change the offense, and it would help the other guys I think. 25 wins is pretty bad, and they still have some very effective and useful players.

[sweet daddy]

You guys are kindof missing the point. Simplify this a little, OK? Not too many people have said that they'd win more than 35 without him. That's a 20 win dropoff without the guy. If they were winning those 35 or so with a young team, great. If you're playing the team as constructed witihout Dirk, you're in deep doodoo. You're wasting time, and need to blow it up and start looking to the future.

Bottom line, IMO, is that Dallas had a star that they couldn't build a championship caliber team around. They got close a couple of times, but weren't quite there. Hey, it happens. Not every great player has won a championship. And most great players played on some not-so great teams during their careers.

[Brooklyn_34]

I guess this screams for the question:

What defines depth?

Maybe we all are operating on different definitions of depth. When I think of depth, I am thinking in terms of being able to compete for a title. The Mavericks DO NOT have the personnel to do so. I will say this emphatically. LA does. Boston does. Miami does (they have a few kinks to iron out). San Antonio does. Dallas doesn't. Orlando doesn't (I love DHow, but he needs help; he, like Dirk, has nothing around him). Oklahoma (with the addition of Perkins) probably right now has the personnel to compete.

LA was the perfect example to compare Dallas with. Their two best players are Bryant and Gasol (in that order). Gasol is heads and shoulders above anything Dallas has after Nowitzki. I can also make that case for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. That is depth. If Odom came to Dallas, he would easily be their second best player. I could also probably say that about Bynum, and from a historical standpoint, he really is not all that great a player (at this point anyway-- even a guy like Brad Daugherty would have a field day against him). That really speaks about the 'depth' Dallas has.

Compare Dallas to Boston. Garnett, Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo, Shaq, Davis, against Dirk and company.
If Glen Davis came to Dallas, he would probably also (very easily) become their second best player. He is not even the FIFTH best player on Boston IMO.

I could make other lists with the other teams, but I will stop here.

No again, Dallas is NOT DEEP. They cannot win a tough playoff series with their current lineup. They have porous perimeter defense (which Dirk has to step out to rotate to compensate). They are too small. Guys cannot consistently hit open shots or even create shots (save for Dirk. Marion has "throwback games" at times).

When the playoffs come around, we all know the story. Trap Dirk with three guys, take the ball out of his hands, rotate quickly (they won't hit the open shots anyway) and attack the perimeter defense and you win. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The Heat figured this out in time in 2006. The game has been the same for YEARS, and Dallas has done little to address this. Dirk has improved his game and has included a post game (as we saw against Denver) to address this. But guys still cannot hit open shots or guard the perimeter, so you have the same results.

I really feel bad for Nowitzki.... he really should have left when he had the chance. He and Dwight Howard would have worked out pretty well in Orlando.... They would have solved each others problems.

Damn shame.

[Shkodran_Plako]

no, the raptors beat them in dallas

[microfib4thewin]

When I think of depth, I am thinking in terms of being able to compete for a title. The Mavericks DO NOT have the personnel to do so.

Not this year, but there were three years where people think Dallas has a shot. Dirk didn't play too well in 06 Finals but it was a close series. In 07 everyone bombed except for Josh Howard. Last year he wasn't exceptional, but he played well enough that it's hard to blame him for the loss.

Dirk's team isn't always great, but he had opportunities to win a ring and his situation was not as dire as KG in Minnesota. Some of the fault goes to him, some of it goes to his teammates for not winning the trophy.

[Brooklyn_34]

Yes microfib4, he had a chance.

Dirk always has a chance, just little to back him up to make that chance become reality.

2006 was the best he had. Game 3 I will say was inexcusable for the Mavericks to lose. But when you have crappy perimeter defense, yes, anything is possible. When you have guys going to the line and missing BOTH free throws, anything can happen.

When you hit what should have been the game winner in game 5 putting your team up 3 games to 2 and referees decide to let an opposing player get away with travelling as well as shoving player to the ground on the last play of the game and bail him out with a push to send him to the line, anything can happen. That was probably the worst officiated series I have seen in all my time watching the NBA. That was a joke. As an official, you either call the offensive foul and/or travelling on Wade or you let the contact go on his drive to the hoop and let the players decide the game. I am pretty 1970ish old school when it comes to foul calls, but you have to make that call against Wade-- it was so blatant. Not even Michael Jordan got away with crap like that. Either call it on Wade or let ALL OF THE CONTACT on that play go with Wade missing that layup. Either way, Dallas walks out with the win.

When the rest of your teammates shoot 30% in game 6 of an NBA finals game, your chances become worse. When a 40 year old center blocks 5 of your teammates shots in 15 mins of action, your chances become worse. How does 7/25 sound from Jason Terry? 5/16 from J Howard? Hard to win any game much less and NBA finals game with your teammates playing so poorly.

[HeatRing2012]

When I think of depth, I am thinking in terms of being able to compete for a title. The Mavericks DO NOT have the personnel to do so.

Not this year, but there were three years where people think Dallas has a shot. Dirk didn't play too well in 06 Finals but it was a close series. In 07 everyone bombed except for Josh Howard. Last year he wasn't exceptional, but he played well enough that it's hard to blame him for the loss.

not exceptional?

are you serious? he dropped the highest win shares (p48) of ALL nba players that year in the playoffs.
27 ppg
55% FG
57% 3p
95% FT

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