Scottie Pippen: LeBron James is the best player of all time

[basketball royalty]

I love Pip but no one ever said he was the sharpest tool in the shed. I think he was highly impressed with the way LeBron was able to shut down DRose in the crunch but he is too quick to forget how good a defender MJ was as well.

[jc23]

So he has clear hurdles to overcome to be the greatest, some self inflicted, but he already is the best player I've ever seen play. I never watched is Russell and I missed prime Wilt and prime Oscar, but watched the rest starting with Lakers Wilt, college Kareem and rookie Dr. J. I watched the 97 Indian/Michigan State game, I watched Jordan's championship winning shot in college, his 63 point game against Boston, I watched Magic's center game against Philly, etc, etc.

I would say he has some Mt. Everest's to overcome to become the GOAT

Basically he needs 7 titles (which he says they will get) and 7 Finals MVP's. And even then Im not sure it will be enough.

Truth is everyone is playing to be #2. MJ > "insert name here"

[INKtastic]

So he has clear hurdles to overcome to be the greatest, some self inflicted, but he already is the best player I've ever seen play. I never watched is Russell and I missed prime Wilt and prime Oscar, but watched the rest starting with Lakers Wilt, college Kareem and rookie Dr. J. I watched the 97 Indian/Michigan State game, I watched Jordan's championship winning shot in college, his 63 point game against Boston, I watched Magic's center game against Philly, etc, etc.

I would say he has some Mt. Everest's to overcome to become the GOAT

Basically he needs 7 titles (which he says they will get) and 7 Finals MVP's. And even then Im not sure it will be enough.

Truth is everyone is playing to be #2. MJ > "insert name here"

I disagree on the 7 titles thing. Jordan was the GOAT with his 4th title, Magic, Kareem and Russell all had more titles. Russell still does. He certainly needs some.

[Gongxi]

Gah! Whether he's better or not, he DOESN'T NEED 7 TITLES AND 7 FINALS MVPS Come on guys, get it together.

[INKtastic]

Truth is everyone is playing to be #2. MJ > "insert name here"

The truth is there's always someone better to come along. THat's just how sports work. Players learn from the ones who came before them.

[jc23]

I stopped reading at score like Jordan.^

I personally preferred it better when the heat were losing and their players were crying. But I can't deny that LeBron is the best player I ever saw. Just like I aways rooted against the celtics, but can't deny how great Larry Bird was.

Hey if thats how you feel you are entitled to your opinion.

But understand you are in the minority in your beliefs (and Im talking the number of Native Americans in the NBA kind of minority).

[jc23]

Truth is everyone is playing to be #2. MJ > "insert name here"

The truth is there's always someone better to come along. THat's just how sports work. Players learn from the ones who came before them.

I guess lebron didnt learn that you get more respect and acclaim by staying with your team and leading them to a Championship. Not jumping ship and going to another top 3 players city.

Thats something that is fact (fair or not) and MJ will always have that over lebron.

Sure there will be a better player than MJ in the future (he said this in "Jordan To The Max") but that does not mean it will be lebron either.

We dont know the future so we will just go with the first 8 years in the league and that is still Jordan > James.

[jc23]

Gah! Whether he's better or not, he DOESN'T NEED 7 TITLES AND 7 FINALS MVPS Come on guys, get it together.

Ok so he just needs to match? or have 1 less?

No he needs to have more because that is the "only" thing he could have over Jordan. The funny thing is no matter how many rings lebron gets he will always have 1 less than wade.

[INKtastic]

I stopped reading at score like Jordan.^

I personally preferred it better when the heat were losing and their players were crying. But I can't deny that LeBron is the best player I ever saw. Just like I aways rooted against the celtics, but can't deny how great Larry Bird was.

Hey if thats how you feel you are entitled to your opinion.

But understand you are in the minority in your beliefs (and Im talking the number of Native Americans in the NBA kind of minority).

My "minority" includes Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Oscar Robinson, Scottie Pippen, etc., who have all said similar things.

ANd like I said, after he betrayed our team I'd rather he wasn't the best player I'd ever seen, but I can't deny what I see on the court and am not going to be one to over rate the past as much as I enjoyed it. LeBron can score as efficiently as Jordan and has the same lock down defense, has the court vision of Bird, the chase down blocks and open court explosiveness of Dr. J. He can play any position on the court.

[darth_federer]

Lebron I dont think will ever be as good as Jordan. The question is if he can overtake Larry Bird to become the GOAT SF.

[MacGill]

Truth is everyone is playing to be #2. MJ > "insert name here"

The truth is there's always someone better to come along. THat's just how sports work. Players learn from the ones who came before them.

It is very hard to argue that he is currently isn't the best in the game today (which I do think he is) however given he is approximately only 50% into his nba career, I find it hard to say he is indefinitely better, seeing as his future hasn't happened yet and when being compared to MJ of all players.

If you want to compare the first 8 years, I think one could make a decent argument but I still do not see LBJ on MJ's level during this time. And that reason is because the comparisions go straight to the top of the pyramid. Whether you have MJ at the top or top 3 (he is my GOAT without question) it becomes annoying when people want to crown someone as better when the person they compare them too, set the bar that hasn't been matched as of yet.

Besides upside and where people think LBJ will go, what makes him better than Magic/Bird/Kobe currently right now against their respective careers? Currently all have more accolades and statistics that can be manipulated in favor as many do with LBJ, so why do we think he can bypass Shaq/Duncan etc as well?

He is great, we all know this, but if he broke his leg this summer and never came back the same player 8 years of great regular season + some amazing playoff moments get you so far. At the end of the day, like in any business we need something that seperates the good from the great from the greatest ever.

At this point, to me, he now has proved himself as the best player in the league so he gets the top of the best to never win category. But now the VIP doors have opened and there is a whole new list of people waiting where currently, in this field, his regular season + amazing playoff moments hold no clout because in this room, each one of these guys have the same + more.

So take the first 8 years and compare to whomever you want too, but to think you can debate full top 10 worthy finished careers, including the GOAT, based off 8 years of regular season + amazing playoff moments while hoping he starts to win isn't the best platform.

Everyone gets caught up in the moment of the next best thing but are often too quick to add into where that player will finish out before they are done. Especially when we have all witnessed careers such as Penny, Hill, McDyess etc, I know LBJ is above all in talent and skill but it's not to say there are not other factors which could limit his exsisting potential as well. It's along the same odds that he wins 7 championships etc but I think we owe it to the guys that did it and we know how the story ended before we start annoiting 8 years into the top.

[INKtastic]

I consider there to be a significant difference between best and greatest. Much of what you said speaks to greatness. Jordan was the best to ever play the game before he won his first championship and Magic was winning league MVPs. He wasn't the greatest to ever play the game until his 4th championship when he was still behind Magic and others for career total.

[junot111]

I consider there to be a significant difference between best and greatest. Much of what you said speaks to greatness. Jordan was the best to ever play the game before he won his first championship and Magic was winning league MVPs. He wasn't the greatest to ever play the game until his 4th championship when he was still behind Magic and others for career total.

Good point, very good point

[jc23]

I personally preferred it better when the heat were losing and their players were crying. But I can't deny that LeBron is the best player I ever saw. Just like I aways rooted against the celtics, but can't deny how great Larry Bird was.

Hey if thats how you feel you are entitled to your opinion.

But understand you are in the minority in your beliefs (and Im talking the number of Native Americans in the NBA kind of minority).

My "minority" includes Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Oscar Robinson, Scottie Pippen, etc., who have all said similar things.

All of those players said he is the best ever? because that was my point. He might be the best in the NBA but not the best ever not even close.

And Michael was just being nice. He probably thinks at the age of 50 he will still be better than leborn or Kobe. That is just who he is.

[MacGill]

I consider there to be a significant difference between best and greatest. Much of what you said speaks to greatness. Jordan was the best to ever play the game before he won his first championship and Magic was winning league MVPs. He wasn't the greatest to ever play the game until his 4th championship when he was still behind Magic and others for career total.

I understand your logic from your previous posts but I have a hard time understanding where you are going with your statements. Your quote from a previous post was 'LBJ is better now than Jordan's best' but if you followed MJ like you have documented you would know Jordan's best came in the playoffs and usually followed a championship and finals mvp. This is what also made him the greatest, so again using him as a comparision is flawed from the start.

Your debate is better suited for someone like Barkley or Karl Malone (although I still think LBJ is superior at equal points of their respective careers) because you can't seperate Jordan and his accomplishments (being best & greatest) and say that someone is better than he was at a certain point, especially when that person played his best in the playoffs and almost always won.

That is part of what seperates who is the top and why when people discuss who is their GOAT, you never have statements excluding what these individuals did their entire career.

[jc23]

I consider there to be a significant difference between best and greatest. Much of what you said speaks to greatness. Jordan was the best to ever play the game before he won his first championship and Magic was winning league MVPs.

I think you mean talent and winning. Maybe you mean to say people felt MJ had more god given talent and Magic was seen as the more complete player and winner

He wasn't the greatest to ever play the game until his 4th championship when he was still behind Magic and others for career total.

So then lebron needs 7 titles to separate himself from MJ? I would agree.

Im younger than you but I remember some things differently about back then, I remember everyone saying a scoring champion will never lead a team to a title while Magic was still seen as the greater player.

But yes once he surpassed him in Rings he was given the GOAT title.

[inquisitive]

I never liked the idea of comparing two players playing two different positions, but i guess everyone likes to do that. Since we're doing that, i think Lebron still has a couple more years to go to compare his career to Kobe....much less MJ.

[TOMSPY77]

I'll have some of what Scottie is drinking/smoking...

[INKtastic]

Im younger than you but I remember some things differently about back then, I remember everyone saying a scoring champion will never lead a team to a title while Magic was still seen as the greater player.

They said Jordan would never win the championship while leading the league in scoring. They also had a big debate, is the MVP the best player or the best player on they best team. They said if it was simply the best player, Jordan would win every year. Then turned around and gave the MVPs to Bird and Magic. Jordan was already better than Bird when he had that 63 point game against Boston. Yet he had a long ways to go to become the greater player.

[MacGill]

Im younger than you but I remember some things differently about back then, I remember everyone saying a scoring champion will never lead a team to a title while Magic was still seen as the greater player.

They said Jordan would never win the championship while leading the league in scoring. They also had a big debate, is the MVP the best player or the best player on they best team. They said if it was simply the best player, Jordan would win every year. Then turned around and gave the MVPs to Bird and Magic. Jordan was already better than Bird when he had that 63 point game against Boston. Yet he had a long ways to go to become the greater player.

Where I am looking for more explanation though is around your comment of 'LBJ has already surpassed Jordan's best'?

How I am reading your above point is that at that point in time, early in Jordan's career, you are saying that he was already better than Bird based off pure statistics and regular/slight post season play, which I would have to disagree with. I think it easier looking back at both of their careers to now say this but it is hard for me to swallow ( and Jordan is my GOAT) that after 2 years in the league and with Bird having two rings (third that year) + back to back MVP's (another that year) that the general consensus was he was superior.

I think MJ was more in the same position that LBJ finds himself in now and the only way to truly show you are the complete package of every talent you possess (at the GOAT discussion table) is to win it all. Anything less, doesn't measure up. Look at all the flack players who do win get based on who their teammates were at that time, so LBJ could avg 100 points a game 40 rebounds & 40 assists and still wouldn't be in the true top GOAT discussions unless he proves us a winner.

This is why Wilt at the top of the pyramid all of Wilt's amazing records don't hold as much water as Russell, KAJ, Jordan etc.

However, if LBJ does win I will not deny his talent or use the fact that he left Cleveland against him. We live in a generation now society and regardless of what my personal thoughts are around his decision 'greatness is greatness' but there are definitely different levels of this attribute.