Official 2011-2012 MVP Discussion Thread - Part 3

[nyk_buc]

According to Stephen a smith, pat Riley is sitting wade purposely so they can push Lebron for MVP. Even Riley has no confidence in Lebron seeing as he needs to motivate him and keep his confidence up with a MVP award.

As of today

1 durant
2 Parker

So for 2 games Wade sat it helped LBJ with his MVP?

And the 9-1 record prior to that had nothing to do with it. Sometimes you're stupid if you actually believe everything the media says. But you were stupid to begin with with that ranking.

He won the MVP when he outdueled Durant 2 weeks ago.

[TRG]

ShowTimeERA is a certified LeBron hater guys, I'd just ignore him.

Anyways I'm still not completely sold on putting CP3 ahead of Durant for 2nd place as of now...

[Kerosene]

If The Heat lose tomorrow be prepared for Bladers, Showtime, Thatish, and all the other parasites to flood this thread with rhetoric. At this point I still think it's tied between LBJ and KD, but giving the Bulls and C's a good ol' attitude adjustment would certainly seal it for Lebron.

[JordansBulls]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... ?track=rss

Miami Heat coach Erik Spoelstra has extended his "maintenance" program to forward Chris Bosh.

Bosh will join guard Dwyane Wade and center Ronny Turiaf (hamstring) as those who will not play Wednesday against the Toronto Raptors at AmericanAirlines Arena.

Spoelstra said Shane Battier (neck) and center Joel Anthony (ankle) will play.

The rest for Bosh, Wade and Turiaf comes at an ideal time with the Heat facing the Eastern Conference-leading Chicago Bulls on Thursday. Miami remains in the hunt for the top seed, trailing by 2 1/2 games. Chicago leads the season series 2-1.

[ShowTimeERA]

ShowTimeERA is a certified LeBron hater guys, I'd just ignore him.

Anyways I'm still not completely sold on putting CP3 ahead of Durant for 2nd place as of now...

Anyone Who is critical about Lebron is a hater? Lebron is a great talent and currently the best player in the nba in this watered down league. I just can't give Lebron an MVP nod if he plays with dwade and Chris bosh. Sure wade has been out but when he returned he was the best player/closer on the heat. I'm just going by what Stephen a said on sportscenter this morning that wade is perfectly healthy right now but pat is holding him out because of two reasons, his durability issues and lebrons MVP campaign.

I remember someone making the comparison that Lebron playing with wade and bosh is like durant playing with Howard and lets say another top 12 player in deron Williams or even Westbrook.

[arsenic]

at the trolls in this thread. First it's Lebron can't do anything without Wade/Bosh, now it's oh they are sitting out to make him look better. Fact of the matter is Lebron has been leading the team to victories all season long, with or without certain players.

[-[Clippers]-]

Dude, you can't even compliment LeBron without being backhanded about it. Certified hater.

[nyk_buc]

If The Heat lose tomorrow be prepared for Bladers, Showtime, Thatish, and all the other parasites to flood this thread with rhetoric. At this point I still think it's tied between LBJ and KD, but giving the Bulls and C's a good ol' attitude adjustment would certainly seal it for Lebron.

The MVP race is over. 95% of the media has LBJ winning it now.

LBJ can rest the rest of the season.

[nyk_buc]

ShowTimeERA is a certified LeBron hater guys, I'd just ignore him.

Anyways I'm still not completely sold on putting CP3 ahead of Durant for 2nd place as of now...

Anyone Who is critical about Lebron is a hater? Lebron is a great talent and currently the best player in the nba in this watered down league. I just can't give Lebron an MVP nod if he plays with dwade and Chris bosh. Sure wade has been out but when he returned he was the best player/closer on the heat. I'm just going by what Stephen a said on sportscenter this morning that wade is perfectly healthy right now but pat is holding him out because of two reasons, his durability issues and lebrons MVP campaign.

I remember someone making the comparison that Lebron playing with wade and bosh is like durant playing with Howard and lets say another top 12 player in deron Williams or even Westbrook.

1) SAS said it was for THREE reasons. 1) durability. 2) Role players would step up. 3) the MVP push. (notice how SAS just whispers that last one in).

And lemme ask you this: will James Harden get a max contract offer this summer? If he is, he would be on the same level as Bosh. So Durant plays with 2 other stars also, one is a superstar in WB and one is an all-star in Harden, just like James.

And Durant has a much better supporting cast outside of the main guys.

[ShowTimeERA]

ShowTimeERA is a certified LeBron hater guys, I'd just ignore him.

Anyways I'm still not completely sold on putting CP3 ahead of Durant for 2nd place as of now...

Anyone Who is critical about Lebron is a hater? Lebron is a great talent and currently the best player in the nba in this watered down league. I just can't give Lebron an MVP nod if he plays with dwade and Chris bosh. Sure wade has been out but when he returned he was the best player/closer on the heat. I'm just going by what Stephen a said on sportscenter this morning that wade is perfectly healthy right now but pat is holding him out because of two reasons, his durability issues and lebrons MVP campaign.

I remember someone making the comparison that Lebron playing with wade and bosh is like durant playing with Howard and lets say another top 12 player in deron Williams or even Westbrook.

1) SAS said it was for THREE reasons. 1) durability. 2) Role players would step up. 3) the MVP push. (notice how SAS just whispers that last one in).

And lemme ask you this: will James Harden get a max contract offer this summer? If he is, he would be on the same level as Bosh. So Durant plays with 2 other stars also, one is a superstar in WB and one is an all-star in Harden, just like James.

And Durant has a much better supporting cast outside of the main guys.

I am glad you posted what Stephen said because those that support Lebron to the end believe I made that up. Back to your question, no contracts do not determine how good a player is. Dwight will get a max does that mean he's equal to bosh? How about Bynum? Eric Gordon will command a max, is durant equal to harden because of their contract situation?

Wade is a top 5 player in this league, Howard would be Durants wade. And another top 12 player who plays to Durants strength and within the offense would be his bosh. From top to bottom Miami has a better roster, problem is they have an incompetent coach.

[penquin11]

Yeah except Wade doesn't rebound 15 balls a game, doesn't average over 2 blocks a game, and isn't the best defensive player in basketball- to be realistic Howard is FAR superior to wade in terms of value. Not only is Howard more of an impact defensively but he also is efficient on offense. Chris Bosh is not a top 12 talent by any means- he can't defend worth sh*t- essentially I think of him as an athletic Luis Scola- because that is what he brings- all offense- no defense. Meanwhile it can be argued that Durant plays alongside some of the best players at each given position:
Westbrook is a elite talent at PG
Harden could be a #1 scoring option on any other team in the NBA- and he is SUPER efficient.
Ibaka is the best shot blocker in the NBA and a nice midrange catch and shoot option who also can contribute through putbacks.
Perkins is one of the best low post defenders in the NBA.
Reggie Jackson and Eric Maynor fill out what is the best PG reserve squad in the NBA
Their backup SG is an ELITE defender.........

The Heat meanwhile struggle from the following short commings:
PG play is inconsistent and substandard
They lack depth at every position outside of SG
They lack a low post defender of any kind or a effective post man on offense
Chris Bosh defends with the same intensity of Bargs
They have a center named Joel Anthony who can't catch a cold- he wouldn't have even made the Thunder team.
They have only 1 quality bench player- Mike Miller- who is frequently injured and overpaid.

Lebron James does a hell of allot more for the Heat than Durant for the Thunder. The Thunder would be a playoff team regardless of whether they had Durant or not, and they very well could be a top 3 seed without Durant at that. The Heat on the other hand would be the 8th seed at BEST without Lebron- likely missing out on the Playoffs to teams with more depth. If Wade was injured and Lebron wasn't on the team you might as well chalk up an Loss for that game given the lack of depth that the Heat have.

[Dat Pass]

The Thunder would be a playoff team regardless of whether they had Durant or not, and they very well could be a top 3 seed without Durant at that. The Heat on the other hand would be the 8th seed at BEST without Lebron

[penquin11]

The Thunder would be a playoff team regardless of whether they had Durant or not, and they very well could be a top 3 seed without Durant at that. The Heat on the other hand would be the 8th seed at BEST without Lebron

Harden easily is a 20ppg+ scorer if he is utilized as a #1 option and Russell can throw in an additional 24ppg- that alone makes the Thunder owning to one of the highest scoring duo's in the NBA, I'm not saying that Durant isn't valuable- Im saying that he isn't the difference between the Thunder making the playoffs or not- perhaps the Thunder being a top 3 team without him is too far- but they certainly would still be a playoff team.

[Dat Pass]

The Thunder without Durant would be a decent team, but certainly not the #3 seed.

I was more laughing at the part about the Heat not making the playoffs without LeBron. They would still easily win their division and very likely still be the #2 seed. (Wade went 47-35 with trash) (Bosh went 40-42 with trash)

[penquin11]

The Thunder without Durant would be a decent team, but certainly not the #3 seed.

I was more laughing at the part about the Heat not making the playoffs without LeBron. They would still easily win their division and very likely still be the #2 seed. (Wade went 47-35 with trash) (Bosh went 40-42 with trash)

Both of those teams had at least a scent of depth to them- the Heat had Beasley, Jermaine O'Neal, Quinton Richardson, and a younger Udonis Haslem.
The Raptors had Bargs, Marcos Belinelli, Hedo Turkolu, Jarret Jack, Calderon, Sonny Weems, and Demar Derozan.

Currently the Heat have only 3 players who score above 10 ppg- LBJ, DWade, and Bosh. Mario Chalmers is close with 9.7 but still falls shy- and the next highest player ppg wise is below 7ppg, this goes without mentioning that they would have no low-post D and would be eaten alive by divisional opponents such as the Hawks and Magic who have solid Centers- they also would be killed by larger teams such as the Celtics, be smashed by most West Conference teams in general- hell just about anyone they faced- even the Bobcats- would hold claim to a better starting Center then they would, not to mention Bosh's inability to guard worth a damn.
The 2009 Heat squad had a solid low post defender in O'Neal, a versatile scoring 4 in Beasley, a solid defensive role player in Haslem (who sored 9.9ppg), and Quinton Richardson who scored 8.9ppg.....

[ThatIshCray]

LeBron stans gotta be the most delusional people on the planet, no bull.

Heat would be an 8 seed without LeBron

[ShowTimeERA]

Lebrons high usage along with wade is the reason why his teammates lack confidence and ability to create. Mike miller, ud, Shane, chalmers, turiaf, etc is a good supporting cast. But I wonder why most of them are having a terrible season if we go by the stats. Bosh and co alone would be a playoff team in the east.

[TRG]

The Heat on the other hand would be the 8th seed at BEST without Lebron- likely missing out on the Playoffs to teams with more depth. If Wade was injured and Lebron wasn't on the team you might as well chalk up an Loss for that game given the lack of depth that the Heat have.

I understand that you're trying to highlight how important LBJ is to the team but I don't agree with this.

Records aside, when you look at all that LeBron is asked to do on both sides of the court, it's insane:

1. He takes most of the scoring load (leads team in ppg, duh)
2. He's one of our better rebounders
3. He can play 4 different positions on offense
4. He facilitates the offense (assist leader)
5. He efficiently defends a RIDICULOUS number of players (from speedy PGs like Rose to softer bigs like Pau Gasol)

The only thing that LeBron doesn't do for the Heat is consistently close games, which is where Wade takes over most of the time. Anyone people who want to undermine how important all of the things LeBron brings to the Heat just because he plays with 2 other high caliber players are kidding themselves.

[Dat Pass]

Anyone people who want to undermine how important all of the things LeBron brings to the Heat just because he plays with 2 other high caliber players are kidding themselves.

No one is undermining LeBrons importance to the team. But a lineup of Chalmers/Wade/Battier/Bosh and Anthony is still the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East. Easily. Not "at best the 8th seed."

[HurricaneKid]

Wade is a top 5 player in this league, Howard would be Durants wade. And another top 12 player who plays to Durants strength and within the offense would be his bosh. From top to bottom Miami has a better roster, problem is they have an incompetent coach.

Its amazing that you are not only consistently wrong, but increasingly so. Howard is NOTHING like Wade, who duplicates a lot of LeBron's skill set. Bosh is a top 12 player now?

You have clearly not watched a Heat game since the AS break. The supporting crew has been dreadful. The whole lot of 'em.

Meanwhile, Ibaka has had 3 games of 10 blocks, a triple double, has shot very well from mid range, Collison has come back and leads the league in charges drawn, etc, etc.