Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situation

[sixeleven]

Drafting CP3 = No Horford.

Oh come on... please.. your telling me that Horford is that valuable. Thats the best one I've read all day.

wooooooooooosh

if the Hawks had CP3 they wouldve had 15-20 more wins and wouldnt have been in the position to draft Horford (who went 3rd overall)

CP/Joe/Smith is better than Horford/Joe/Smith , but CP and Joe are still a second round playoff exit team, so Chris Paul on the Hawks is just pointless.

[therealbig3]

Even if the Hawks had drafted CP3, it still wouldn't make them a favorite in the East this year. Teague isn't that bad either.

3rd seed.

The Clips got blown out this year even with BG and CP, of course the Hawks have a better roster and coach in that situation.

But they would still lack a franchise player. JJ nor CP is a top 5 player and both are very mediocre in the playoffs.

CP3 was a top 5 player in 08, 09, possibly 11, and this year.

And he hasn't played enough games to determine whether he's mediocre or not in the playoffs.

[chandlerbang23]

hawks are stuck in mediocre because of his contract like lakers will be with kobes 30mll per season starting next year

[bledredwine]

Even if the Hawks had drafted CP3, it still wouldn't make them a favorite in the East this year. Teague isn't that bad either.

3rd seed.

The Clips got blown out this year even with BG and CP, of course the Hawks have a better roster and coach in that situation.

But they would still lack a franchise player. JJ nor CP is a top 5 player and both are very mediocre in the playoffs.

CP3 was a top 5 player in 08, 09, possibly 11, and this year.

And he hasn't played enough games to determine whether he's mediocre or not in the playoffs.

lol what?

Chris Paul was a top 5 player in 08 and probably 09, no chance since. Since, better point guards have entered the league. If Chris Paul was a top 5 player, the Clippers would have been contenders instead of the Knicks of the West. Chris Paul's not a high impact player like James, Howard, Wade, Durant, Rose, etc. He just isn't. He cannot take over a game. One series last year, that's it. He is what he is, a very good point guard. Not a franchise player.

[ITK9]

I agree with the OP.It's easy to say "what bad contract.what a stupid organization" .Do you think that Atlanta didin't knew they were overpaying him? But if you don't overpay for a FA, he is leaving.So you are loosing your best player and this is NOT the receipt for having a good team.

[monsterblock]

hawks are stuck in mediocre because of his contract like lakers will be with kobes 30mll per season starting next year

Hawks and 90% of other teams are stuck in mediocre because they never got a #1 overall pick

Cavs - Lebron
Bulls - Rose
Thunder - Durant (Lucked out with Oden)
Spurs - Duncan
Clippers - Griffin

i don't know what is this myth that CAP SPACE will get you a good player. 95% of teams with cap space end up getting bad players.

Knicks - Carmelo/Amare
Bulls - Boozer
Clippers - Jordan/Caron
Nets - players are turning down, and just staying away from that bad situation

the only exception is the Heat, and that is only because Lebron cares more about being a #2 than money. and if Lebron is the rule and not the exception, then that means that Durant is up for relocating out of Oklahoma to another team.

[Buckeyevstworld]

I agree with the OP.It's easy to say "what bad contract.what a stupid organization" .Do you think that Atlanta didin't knew they were overpaying him? But if you don't overpay for a FA, he is leaving.So you are loosing your best player and this is NOT the receipt for having a good team.

They should have let him leave. That or traded him during the 2009-10. I'm sure if they could go back they would.

[monsterblock]

I agree with the OP.It's easy to say "what bad contract.what a stupid organization" .Do you think that Atlanta didin't knew they were overpaying him? But if you don't overpay for a FA, he is leaving.So you are loosing your best player and this is NOT the receipt for having a good team.

They should have let him leave. That or traded him during the 2009-10. I'm sure if they could go back they would.

Hawks fans wanted Joe to walk and just give a long contract to Jamal Crawford.

but if Joe left, he would have just signed with the Bulls to team up with Rose and Deng.

[Buckeyevstworld]

I agree with the OP.It's easy to say "what bad contract.what a stupid organization" .Do you think that Atlanta didin't knew they were overpaying him? But if you don't overpay for a FA, he is leaving.So you are loosing your best player and this is NOT the receipt for having a good team.

They should have let him leave. That or traded him during the 2009-10. I'm sure if they could go back they would.

Hawks fans wanted Joe to walk and just give a long contract to Jamal Crawford.

but if Joe left, he would have just signed with the Bulls to team up with Rose and Deng.

And go to his rightful place as the 2nd or 3rd option? Yay! Stupid Hawks robbed us. :/

Do they still sign Boozer if they get JJ?

[chyau.00]

What alternative does an Indiana, Atlanta, Philly, etc have if they don't have a superstar?

Blow your team up like the Bobcats and rebuild through the draft, hoping to draft a superstar or two. Atlanta and Philly are definitely treadmill teams. Indiana might have enough bottled lightning in Hibbert and George to build around.

the hawks WERE built through the draft. Atl and philly may be treadmill teams, but chances are bobcat will be too once they get their 'stars' and tanking for the foreseeable future.

[monsterblock]

They should have let him leave. That or traded him during the 2009-10. I'm sure if they could go back they would.

Hawks fans wanted Joe to walk and just give a long contract to Jamal Crawford.

but if Joe left, he would have just signed with the Bulls to team up with Rose and Deng.

And go to his rightful place as the 2nd or 3rd option? Yay! Stupid Hawks robbed us. :/

Do they still sign Boozer if they get JJ?

I don't know if they had the cap, but Gibson is better, and better valued than Boozer.

[therealbig3]

lol what?

Chris Paul was a top 5 player in 08 and probably 09, no chance since. Since, better point guards have entered the league. If Chris Paul was a top 5 player, the Clippers would have been contenders instead of the Knicks of the West. Chris Paul's not a high impact player like James, Howard, Wade, Durant, Rose, etc. He just isn't. He cannot take over a game. One series last year, that's it. He is what he is, a very good point guard. Not a franchise player.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about when it comes to CP3.

LOL at mentioning Rose...CP3 this year was better than Rose has ever been, and this wasn't even CP3 at his best.

Chris Paul being a top 5 PG is the reason why the Clippers were the 5 seed and made it to the 2nd round instead of missing the playoffs.

He cannot take over a game? One series last year, that's it? Not a franchise player? You need to do some research on CP3, no joke. What you wrote is hugely inaccurate.

[AnaheimRoyale]

The salary cap is good and bad, without it small market teams would be more screwed, but with it teams must pay the same money to Joe Johnson as they would for Tim Duncan. Not because JJ is "overpaid", multiple teams would have paid him the max both times he got it, just like it has been paid to guys like AK-47, Michael Redd, etc. The problem is guys like Lebron, prime Tim Duncan, Wade, etc, are underpaid, because in a true free market they would get far, far above what JJ gets.

The current system is favourable towards a well managed team, but it creates the illusion of overpayment because fans don't understand what market value means.

[Alex_De_Large]

Sonics/Thunder didn't overpay Rashard Lewis and look what happened

[monsterblock]

The salary cap is good and bad, without it small market teams would be more screwed, but with it teams must pay the same money to Joe Johnson as they would for Tim Duncan. Not because JJ is "overpaid", multiple teams would have paid him the max both times he got it, just like it has been paid to guys like AK-47, Michael Redd, etc. The problem is guys like Lebron, prime Tim Duncan, Wade, etc, are underpaid, because in a true free market they would get far, far above what JJ gets.

The current system is favourable towards a well managed team, but it creates the illusion of overpayment because fans don't understand what market value means.

+1000

Finally somebody who understands economics, and not just doing "Skip Bayless", "realgm" hindsight

[realfung]

I agree. People think anyone can be a star and carry a team. There are really only maybe 3-5 true stars in the league at any one time......

Bron, Wade, Durant, Rose...

[Ein44sol]

Still does not justify the contract joe johnson got, if I were a Hawk fan I would of understood the decision to let him leave. And of course the 2005 and 2006 drafts really did them in.
Then you have these owners complaining about the salaries of the players which in part caused the lockout.

[AnaheimRoyale]

If you don't think it justifies the contract, you don't really understand what I just said. How will the Hawks ever become talented if they refuse to pay players their market value. You're looking at how much Lebron makes and saying "that the same as JJ, boy is JJ overpaid" and not understanding that Lebron is underpaid, not JJ is overpaid. Your mind is conditioned to believe "$X amount" is "too much", but that proposition doesn't make sense, because it misunderstands the reasons these guys are paid millions of dollars at all. JJ's salary only seems awful relative to other players, who are underpaid. That does not negate the contract being sensible.

[-Kees-]

I agree that they HAD to keep him, but the problem I have is that they offered him a 6 year max contract before anyone else even talked to him. Even if they offered a 5 year, 95M contract, that's a TON better, and I'm sure he would've signed that.

[AnaheimRoyale]

Except he'd have made more in endorsements in NY, and NY was one of the teams keen to sign him... when the choice is NY v.s Atlanta, you make sure he's locked up and you sometimes pay a premium.