Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron

[RajonRondo]

so jus cuz he has a lower fg% lebron is the better scorer? thats like saying tyson chandler is a better scorer than dwight howard just cause of his fg percentage.

[RatherUnique]

so jus cuz he has a lower fg% lebron is the better scorer? thats like saying tyson chandler is a better scorer than dwight howard just cause of his fg percentage.

I'm comparing two scorers of similar volume.

Tyson Chandler is a low volume scorer (for centers). Dwight is a high volume scorer (for centers). They are not similar volume. Tyson has no place in any discussion about high volume scoring big men.

[kingkirk]

Melo has been a tougher guard for any wing in the NBA one on one in recent years,

Bron has the edge in efficiency, and the edge in raw PPG.

Bron scores more points and misses less shots while scoring more points.

If you ignore that, then sure. melo has been a tougher guard for any wing in the NBA one on one in recent years

You do realise that this is Kobe stating his opinion and not someone on realgm stating that Carmelo is the best and everyone else is worse, right?

If in Kobe's opinion, he is the toughest to guard because he plays on him in the NBA, which we don't, im not sure why this thread has gone on for so long.

[RatherUnique]

You do realise that this is Kobe stating his opinion and not someone on realgm stating that Carmelo is the best and everyone else is worse, right?

I had no idea at all, even though I saw his name in the title.

In my post that you quoted, I thought I was just responding to another user's comment.

[KnicksScholar24]

so jus cuz he has a lower fg% lebron is the better scorer? thats like saying tyson chandler is a better scorer than dwight howard just cause of his fg percentage.

I'm comparing two scorers of similar volume.

Tyson Chandler is a low volume scorer (for centers). Dwight is a high volume scorer (for centers). They are not similar volume. Tyson has no place in any discussion about high volume scoring big men.

Volume of scoring doesn't void the point that was made by the other poster. Higher percentage doesn't correlate to best scorer. Landry Fields shot 49% from the field his rookie year. Does that make him a better scorer than every player who shot a lesser field goal percentage on a similar volume of shots?

James has high percentages because all he does it back up a bit and run past slower footed defenders. He's like a cheeser in a video game. Some times he'll get streaky hot with his jumper and from three-point range, but he certainly isn't as diverse a scorer as Durant, Anthony, or Bryant. Anthony is more skilled and versatile as an offensive player. Anthony tends to force shots and launch contest 30-foot three-pointers as heat check type shots. It's not a smart thing to do, but it still makes Anthony's degree of difficulty on his shots are much higher than James. That would explain the lower FG% percentage.

James has the edge in passing (vision), rebounding, speed, athleticism, and lately defense (due to his speed & athleticism). Anthony has the edge in pretty most other categories.

This year Anthony is getting harder for teams to stop him because he more willing to pass out of the post, and while he may not end up with the assists, he'll likely make the first key pass, after the defense collapses, that allows the perimeter guys to swing the ball to the open shooter. That's something that doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but has helped the Knicks get the #1 record in the Eastern Conference.

[RatherUnique]

Volume of scoring doesn't void the point that was made by the other poster. Higher percentage doesn't correlate to best scorer. Landry Fields shot 49% from the field his rookie year. Does that make him a better scorer than every player who shot a lesser field goal percentage on a similar volume of shots?

For perimeter players, absolutely. At 7 shots per game, find me better perimeter scorers in that season whose TS% were lower than Landry's 60%.

James has high percentages because all he does it back up a bit and run past slower footed defenders. He's like a cheeser in a video game. Some times he'll get streaky hot with his jumper and from three-point range, but he certainly isn't as diverse a scorer as Anthony

And you're confusing diversity with effectiveness. The goal is to score the ball. Who scores the ball the most while missing the least amount of shots? That is Lebron. He is a more effective scorer.

[orangeparka]

James has high percentages because all he does it back up a bit and run past slower footed defenders. He's like a cheeser in a video game. Some times he'll get streaky hot with his jumper and from three-point range, but he certainly isn't as diverse a scorer as Durant, Anthony, or Bryant. Anthony is more skilled and versatile as an offensive player. Anthony tends to force shots and launch contest 30-foot three-pointers as heat check type shots. It's not a smart thing to do, but it still makes Anthony's degree of difficulty on his shots are much higher than James. That would explain the lower FG% percentage.

So Melo is a much better and more diverse scorer, and could also put up LeBron-like efficiency, but just chooses not to by taking bad shots?

Even if that were true, what does that say about Melo?

This year Anthony is getting harder for teams to stop him because he more willing to pass out of the post, and while he may not end up with the assists, he'll likely make the first key pass, after the defense collapses, that allows the perimeter guys to swing the ball to the open shooter. That's something that doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but has helped the Knicks get the #1 record in the Eastern Conference.

Sorry, I love what Melo's been doing this year but he's getting a tad overrated concerning his impact on the team. Yeah, he's a big part of the team, and obviously the best player on it, but just look at how the Knicks have fared without him too. I think the coaching staff and role players get a ton of the credit as well, if not more.

Also, you say this like it's something Melo would have over LeBron, but it's actually something LeBron's been doing forever, and averaging way more assists at that...

I love Melo and he's one of my favorite players in the league, and I guess I could give him the "more difficult to defend" label, but better scorer? No.

[orangeparka]

And really, what exactly does Melo do better than LeBron scoring-wise?

I used to think that Melo had a more diverse/versatile/complete offensive skill set too, but thinking about it further, I can't really back up my own line of thought.

They are both really good post players and scorers inside/off cuts, where they use their physicality. I'm not sure I'd really give the advantage to either one. Melo might have more moves and may be smoother, but really it's about how effective you are, and I believe LeBron gets the edge in efficiency at the rim and around the basket.

In isolation, both are really quick for their size. I might've given this to Melo about two seasons ago, who to this day probably has a better contested jumper, but LeBron's been terrific beating his man off-the-dribble this season (as many in this thread have pointed out), and has really been opening up other parts of his game.

Jump shots and three pointers? They're both pretty streaky, and both a little better off-the-dribble than spotting up. I probably give Melo the advantage here because he's been more consistent over his career (but now and recently, not too much).

In transition? LeBron's probably the best transition scorer in the game, but Melo's no slouch and gets a ton of points from there as well. Maybe I give it to LeBron but I don't think it's an enormous gap.

So really, this whole "Melo has a more complete offensive package" doesn't make too much sense. LeBron is similarly skilled at many facets of the game, and we all agree that he's a more effective and efficient scorer, so really what does that leave Melo with? A smoother/prettier offensive game? Maybe, but really, I take the effectiveness/efficiency and additional points over that.

I would say Melo's easily a more diverse and versatile scorer than Cleveland LeBron (who was mainly a slasher and far less effective shooter/post-player), but now? I dunno.

[MaliBrah]

melo's easier on the eye's scoring game takes the cake if this was a beauty pageant , but this is basketball lebron's overall more effective as a scorer

[King John]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

Yeah agreed.

What?

I'd take Lebron's offensive game over Melo's any day of the week, there's no comparison. Durant, that's at least debatable but given that Melo isn't more efficient and is a way less effective playmaker, I'm not seeing that one at all.

Unless you mean just from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

I meant strictly scoring, if I need one basket I'd take Melo or Durant over Lebron everytime. There's just so many more ways for them to score as apposed to Lebron.

[tsherkin]

I meant strictly scoring, if I need one basket I'd take Melo or Durant over Lebron everytime. There's just so many more ways for them to score as apposed to Lebron.

With Durant, there's an argument.

With Melo, that's falling prey to the "versatility = quality" argument. Lebron has consistently scored more at notably higher efficiency in his career. He's a better scorer, it's not really a debatable issue. Melo is more "well-rounded," but it doesn't translate in a meaningful capacity, so it is irrelevant.

[StephNYKurry]

I meant strictly scoring, if I need one basket I'd take Melo or Durant over Lebron everytime. There's just so many more ways for them to score as apposed to Lebron.

With Durant, there's an argument.

With Melo, that's falling prey to the "versatility = quality" argument. Lebron has consistently scored more at notably higher efficiency in his career. He's a better scorer, it's not really a debatable issue. Melo is more "well-rounded," but it doesn't translate in a meaningful capacity, so it is irrelevant.

You are of the belief then, that Lebron is the 2nd best scorer of all time correct?

[Black Feet]

I meant strictly scoring, if I need one basket I'd take Melo or Durant over Lebron everytime. There's just so many more ways for them to score as apposed to Lebron.

With Durant, there's an argument.

With Melo, that's falling prey to the "versatility = quality" argument. Lebron has consistently scored more at notably higher efficiency in his career. He's a better scorer, it's not really a debatable issue. Melo is more "well-rounded," but it doesn't translate in a meaningful capacity, so it is irrelevant.

Lebron is more efficient but if I needed one shot I would take Melo and Durant over Lebron also, better 3pt and ft shooters so you wouldn't have to worry about them being fouled.

[tsherkin]

Lebron is more efficient but if I needed one shot I would take Melo and Durant over Lebron also, better 3pt and ft shooters so you wouldn't have to worry about them being fouled.

It's factually incorrect that Melo > Lebron as a 3pt shooter, FWIW.

And again, with Durant I can at least a scoring-only argument. I wouldn't agree with it, but it at least has a legitimate basis.

There isn't an appreciable difference in terms of shooting ability past 15 feet between Lebron and Melo, that's an old issue that hasn't been true in several seasons.

[ShowTimeERA]

I meant strictly scoring, if I need one basket I'd take Melo or Durant over Lebron everytime. There's just so many more ways for them to score as apposed to Lebron.

With Durant, there's an argument.

With Melo, that's falling prey to the "versatility = quality" argument. Lebron has consistently scored more at notably higher efficiency in his career. He's a better scorer, it's not really a debatable issue. Melo is more "well-rounded," but it doesn't translate in a meaningful capacity, so it is irrelevant.

The stats say Lebron is a better scorer. But let me ask you something for the sake of argument, if Lebron, Melo, Durant, and peak Kobe were told that by averaging the highest possible FG% (among wings) throughout the course of the season, that would guarantee their team an automatic finals birth - who do you think would average more points with the best efficiency? (Remember we are talking about all the players I mentioned playing in today's NBA). I know this is a bogus scenario but what I am trying to say is that IMO Lebron is much more aware and self-conscious about his stats which is more credit to him for being the smarter player. I think other players can really give a rats behind what their FG% is and continue to shoot good or bad shots, which is a fault whereas Lebron is smart about it and purposely takes the best shot possible.

That's why I don't buy into whoever scores more efficiently is a better scorer..

[tsherkin]

But let me ask you something for the sake of argument, if Lebron, Melo, Durant, and peak Kobe were told that by averaging the highest possible FG% (among wings) throughout the course of the season, that would guarantee their team an automatic finals birth - who do you think would average more points with the best efficiency?

Lebron, probably. Maybe Durant. Definitely not Melo or Kobe.

Kobe, especially right now but in general, has always been more reliant upon jumpers, which isn't going to change. He's always been a score-first player who overuses the 3 and the long 2, Melo as well. I'd trust Lebron more than either to have a higher FG% in your scenario.

[Black Feet]

Lebron is more efficient but if I needed one shot I would take Melo and Durant over Lebron also, better 3pt and ft shooters so you wouldn't have to worry about them being fouled.

It's factually incorrect that Melo > Lebron as a 3pt shooter, FWIW.

And again, with Durant I can at least a scoring-only argument. I wouldn't agree with it, but it at least has a legitimate basis.

There isn't an appreciable difference in terms of shooting ability past 15 feet between Lebron and Melo, that's an old issue that hasn't been true in several seasons.

Factually incorrect? How so? Melo has had higher 3pt % seasons than Lebron. It's pretty obvious Melos the better shooter, he's also guarded tighter at the 3 pt line because of it.

[Indy07]

I'll use an analogy that hopefully people will understand.

In baseball, hitters say its hardest to hit against guys like Greg Maddux (Melo) than guys like Randy Johnson (LBJ). The reasoning? You don't know what is coming with Greg Maddux because he has such an array of pitches and pinpoint control. Similar to Melo who has a broad repertoire of moves he can use at different points in the half court with high degrees of skilled footwork to go w/.

LBJ is like Randy Johnson. In the beginning, Randy Johnson only had the fastball like LBJ only had the drive/blow past defender. Granted, Johnson added the slider like LBJ added the post game. Players still couldn't hit Randy like people couldn't stop LeBron but they at least knew what was coming. With Melo and Maddux, they don't. Its far more taxing mentally and physically playing against someone who can attack you in 30 different ways.

Maddux worked counts, frustrated batters, and just pounded the zone - it was incredibly grueling to hitters. Melo does the same thing all game, battling for post position even if he doesn't get the ball etc. Does that mean that Melo is a better offensive player? No, not at all. It just means it is much harder to guard him than it is LeBron.

[Tien]

You know a thread needs to die when someone is comparing LeBron and Melo and gives melo the edge in being "a thinking man."


If melo is a thinking man, LeBron is Einstein

LeBron is not a thinking man like Melo on offense. While Melo is figuring out 5 different ways to score against a double team (thinking man), LeBron just passes the ball to the open guy in the corner!

That's not thinking man basketball!!!!!

[Tien]

So now the narrative is that LeBron is a player that just smashes the A A A A A A A button on the remote control and that sums up his offensive repertoire.

Not his offensive repertoire, but he's the only player in the league that can dictate the manner in which he scores. He doesn't play like a thinking man when scoring the basketball because he doesn't have to most of the time, but he's also not necessarily capable of executing the moves that Kobe and Melo do.

In every other facet of his game, however, his basketball IQ is beyond reproach.

Game 6 Boston ECF 2012.

Yes he's capable of everything Melo does and more.