The OFFICIAL rookie impressions thread pt.III

[orangeparka]

I can see Drummond becoming a Sanders type player. Just coz he doesn't have great offensive potential doesn't mean he can't be a really good player.

[Hendrix]

Valanciunas > Drummond.

People were surprised by Drummond for beasting early, but that was actually to be expecting. He's a physical freak whose already maxed out size wise. People keep talking about his upside, but his ceiling is actually limited. He has no real post game, and he can't hit free throws. His offense will solely be dunks, alleys, and putbacks, and that is limiting. His D is also very hit and miss, though the big plays still make him a game changer.

Ultimately I see Drummond as a 12 and 12 type, with 2-3 blocks, a bunch of steals, but awful FT shooting and mental lapses all over the court. I see him as more DeAndre Jordan than prime D12, AD doesn't have Howards shoulder girth to gain seperation on those baby hooks.

Jonas I see as an 18 and 10 type, with great energy, good D, and all the intangibles. I'd gamble on Jonas. Give him an offseason to add strength and having a year of North American ball under his belt and I think he's going to explode on the NBA next year. Just watch.

Personally I think Valanciunas has been getting quite under rated in this thread. But, you don't need to attack/compare him to Drummond to try an make him look better imo. it's possible that they are both great prospects.

Drummond had a bad game. But, it was 1 game, and they are rookies. All rookies have bad games. It doesn't negate the fact the guy has a PER of 21 on the season, which is great. The guy is 19 years old and already basically a 12 and 12 2-3 block guy right now. I think it's possible he stays at a 12-12-3 level, but it's probable that a 19 year old improves.

[Shem]

The simple fact is, Lillard wants to win and he has bigger goals he wants to accomplish rather than just setting a three-point record. He feels he can be one of the very top players this league has to offer and he's on a mission to prove that.

“I think I can be a first team All-NBA, I think I can be an All-Star, I think I can be an MVP,” Lillard told CSNNW.com. “That's just my opinion. I don't know when, but how I plan to work and how much better I want to be, I feel like anything is possible.”

That's how much Lillard believes in himself. Finishing tonight's game with 17 points, five rebounds and five assists isn't anything to sneeze at for a rookie. Even in a loss.

The four-time/soon-to-be five-time Rookie of the Month has lofty expectations for himself and why not? No one thought he would be this good early on.

The whole article is here:
http://www.csnnw.com/blog/blazers-talk/ ... -being-mvp

[HornetJail]

I can see Drummond becoming a Sanders type player. Just coz he doesn't have great offensive potential doesn't mean he can't be a really good player.

He is already better than Sanders offensively. He can't shoot FTs for crap, but Sanders still is very raw offensively.

Our defense made Sanders look godly tonight though.

[Casey Jonas]

Who says you have to be a good free throw shooter to succeed in the NBA? So that's why Ben Wallace, Shaq, Rodman, Wilt are out of the league. Makes sense. And unlike all those other guys, he has good form and little to no hitch. He's going to improve in that area.

And that comparison is going to make you look like a homer man. Jonas's defensive presence, passing, rebounding aren't at Noah's level.

He's not going to improve to a passable level as a FT shooter, it just doesn't happen.

And never said he'll be out of the league at all. Just he won't be anything more than a Chandler or a Jordan offensively.

Regarding Jonas' compared to Noah, in terms of D 5 blocks tonight, including 2 on that Drummond guy, once absolutely stuffing him. His rebounding will be a touch lower, and his passing probably 2 notches, but his offence will be several notches higher.

[Casey Jonas]

Valanciunas > Drummond.

People were surprised by Drummond for beasting early, but that was actually to be expecting. He's a physical freak whose already maxed out size wise. People keep talking about his upside, but his ceiling is actually limited. He has no real post game, and he can't hit free throws. His offense will solely be dunks, alleys, and putbacks, and that is limiting. His D is also very hit and miss, though the big plays still make him a game changer.

Ultimately I see Drummond as a 12 and 12 type, with 2-3 blocks, a bunch of steals, but awful FT shooting and mental lapses all over the court. I see him as more DeAndre Jordan than prime D12, AD doesn't have Howards shoulder girth to gain seperation on those baby hooks.

Jonas I see as an 18 and 10 type, with great energy, good D, and all the intangibles. I'd gamble on Jonas. Give him an offseason to add strength and having a year of North American ball under his belt and I think he's going to explode on the NBA next year. Just watch.

Personally I think Valanciunas has been getting quite under rated in this thread. But, you don't need to attack/compare him to Drummond to try an make him look better imo. it's possible that they are both great prospects.

Drummond had a bad game. But, it was 1 game, and they are rookies. All rookies have bad games. It doesn't negate the fact the guy has a PER of 21 on the season, which is great. The guy is 19 years old and already basically a 12 and 12 2-3 block guy right now. I think it's possible he stays at a 12-12-3 level, but it's probable that a 19 year old improves.

Never attacked Drummond.

And what's wrong with comparing two great young centers in the East? In this thread?

Just think Val is going to be better...

[ComboGuardCity]

Really no point in arguing. Based on your username, I figure you're a huge Jonas fan and I'm a huge Drummond fan. My personal opinion is that while, Jonas has a more polished post game at the moment, Drummond is younger with far less experience and has the potential (Which I think he will reach) to be the best defensive center in the game + Top 3 offensive force as well. I think to say he's reached his ceiling because he had a bad game in his third game back from sitting out with a fractured tailbone is convenient. Personally, I don't care really how Jonas turns out, I just hope the Pistons turn it around next year so I can watch a good product instead of ads for nickel seats.

[King d]

Drummond is younger with far less experience and has the potential (Which I think he will reach) to be the best defensive center in the game

Maybe one day... When Roy Hibbert retires

[Hendrix]

Never attacked Drummond.

And what's wrong with comparing two great young centers in the East? In this thread?

Just think Val is going to be better...

fair enough. I think it could go either way, but at this point I think you gotta figure the 19 year old with the higher PER for a teenager in the history of the game is ahead.

That said, I think Val has the potential to be the best offensive C in the game, one of the best defensive C's in the game, and a pretty good rebounder too.

[Dame Lizard]

A lot of times people over project a "big man" for what he could do defensively based on pure height and athleticism. Meyers is pretty athletic for a 7' guy, but his 9'0 standing reach is nothing special at all, and it's not a surprise that he's not a huge shot blocker or rebounder.

Then again, this year's draft class seems to be ridiculously off in terms of standing reach for the big men. Point is, he's tall, but not ridiculously long (7'3 wingspan), so it's not a huge shock that he's not a big presence on that side.

Meyers may never be an elite shot blocker with his standing reach but that doesn't necessarily limit his rebounding potential.

I've had the opinion for a while that Leonard will turn out to be a good rebounder in this league, but I don't think the same about his shot blocking ability.

In reality though, having a 9'0.5" standing reach shouldn't be the reason behind Leonard being a bad shot blocker. That's an acceptable standing reach to be a good shot blocker. It all really comes down to defensive instincts, mainly positioning and timing.

[Shem]

Only three point guards in the league have max deals -- Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook. It's a lock that Chris Paul will join them this summer. And that's all. Even Wall acknowledges those four are better than he is.

"You've got Chris Paul, Russell," he said Sunday night. "Derrick right now. I'd say Kyrie [Irving]'s up there, doing pretty good. I like [Portland's] Damian Lillard. I'd say he's up there in that category. He's playing out of his mind, to play like he's a rookie. I feel like those years in college really helped him. I feel like they'd be the top."

He agrees, when Rajon Rondo's name is mentioned, that Rondo is better. He goes along with Denver's Ty Lawson, and volunteers Golden State's Stephen Curry. And that's the list. Eight better.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/d ... f:nbahpt3b

[Shem]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--U5kdYesEk[/youtube]

[Shem]

https://twitter.com/StephenCurry30/stat ... 9215389697

Stephen ‏@StephenCurry30

Congrats to @Dame_Lillard for setting a new rookie 3pt record. Just hoping he slows that pace down from here on out lol. Congrats!

[Dark Faze]

Can't say that Lillard is better than Wall but at least John is being humble.

[Casey Jonas]

Really no point in arguing. Based on your username, I figure you're a huge Jonas fan and I'm a huge Drummond fan. My personal opinion is that while, Jonas has a more polished post game at the moment, Drummond is younger with far less experience and has the potential (Which I think he will reach) to be the best defensive center in the game + Top 3 offensive force as well. I think to say he's reached his ceiling because he had a bad game in his third game back from sitting out with a fractured tailbone is convenient. Personally, I don't care really how Jonas turns out, I just hope the Pistons turn it around next year so I can watch a good product instead of ads for nickel seats.

I think that excuse is convenient. (and never said he's tapped out, just think there isn't much more to come, but there should certainly be some minor improvements)

The thing to keep in mind with Jonas is that he's a rookie coming from euro ball. Sure he's more experienced, but there's a bigger learning curve coming over from Europe to the NBA than there is coming out of UCONN. With an NA offseason under his belt, and the chance to add weight/strength, Jonas is primed to have a massive sophomore year.

I understand the hype for Drummond, but if I had to choose one of these two guys, I'd sell high on AD and roll with Jonas going forward. He's just a much more complete player, especially offensively.

Since returning from his hand injury, and getting consistent minutes after the Raps have fallen out of playoff race, he's been fantastic. Over his last 8 he's averaging over 15 points per game on Godly percentages, while playing good D, and rebounding well.

[JustinSane]

Valanciunas and Drummond both look like fantastic prospects. I think Jonas will be the closest thing to Duncan since Duncan (he won't be as good, but stylistically he's similar, and he's unusually polished and fundamentally sound for his age). He's got fantastic touch both around the rim and as a mid-range shooter, plays hard and seems like a deceptively athletic player.

Drummond has the potential to be a uniquely disruptive defender. He's a center who moves like a guard. I think he'll win multiple DPoY awards. His offensive game will probably be continually under-rated because he can't shoot, but he'll produce a very efficient 14-15 points/ game and constantly stress an opposing defense. He is already one of the best offensive rebounders, best finishers and best rollers in the game. His box score stats don't fully reflect how much he helps an offense.

I'm pretty sure all Raptors fans think Jonas will be better and all Pistons fans think Drummond will be. I am a Pistons fan, and I think Drummond is the better prospect overall. But both are great.

[Casey Jonas]

Valanciunas and Drummond both look like fantastic prospects. I think Jonas will be the closest thing to Duncan since Duncan (he won't be as good, but stylistically he's similar, and he's unusually polished and fundamentally sound for his age). He's got fantastic touch both around the rim and as a mid-range shooter, plays hard and seems like a deceptively athletic player.

Drummond has the potential to be a uniquely disruptive defender. He's a center who moves like a guard. I think he'll win multiple DPoY awards. His offensive game will probably be continually under-rated because he can't shoot, but he'll produce a very efficient 14-15 points/ game and constantly stress an opposing defense. He is already one of the best offensive rebounders, best finishers and best rollers in the game. His box score stats don't fully reflect how much he helps an offense.

I'm pretty sure all Raptors fans think Jonas will be better and all Pistons fans think Drummond will be. I am a Pistons fan, and I think Drummond is the better prospect overall. But both are great.

Yea, I'm not trying to crap on Drummond, the only reason I mention it is that Drummond seems to be consensually higher regarded, while Jonas is criminally underrated in the mainstream.

Make no mistake, these are the best two young true centers in the game, probably by significant notch.

[raptor jesus]

Some Raptor fans love to see Drummond struggle, hoping that his flaws are insurmountable so that he won't reach his potential, and thus won't haunt us more than he already does. Personally, I'm glad he's doing well because, well, he seems like a good kid, and it's serves as yet another illogical 'out of the box' black mark on Colangelo's resume.

At their respective peaks, the better player - between Val and Drummond - will be open to interpretation, depending on what you want from your center. I project Val to be an exceptional offensive player, with steady defense. And Drummond an exceptional defensive anchor with solid production on the offensive end. In other words, they would fit together swimmingly. I'm looking at you Bryan.

[Casey Jonas]

Some Raptor fans love to see Drummond struggle, hoping that his flaws are insurmountable so that he won't reach his potential, and thus won't haunt us more than he already does. Personally, I'm glad he's doing well because, well, he seems like a good kid, and it's serves as yet another illogical 'out of the box' black mark on Colangelo's resume.

At their respective peaks, the better player - between Val and Drummond - will be open to interpretation, depending on what you want from your center. I project Val to be an exceptional offensive player, with steady defense. And Drummond an exceptional defensive anchor with solid production on the offensive end. In other words, they would fit together swimmingly. I'm looking at you Bryan.

Drummond should have been the pick, but I don't think Drummond would be Drummond if he was on the Raps. We just found minutes for Val. And that's after we traded Davis and Bargnani hit the IR.

If the raps had drafted Drummond, he'd still be struggling for minutes. And Him and Val couldn't co-exist, not as true centers with the game going small.


And raps fans need to keep in mind that Drummond refused to work out for us.

[Hendrix]

Drummond should have been the pick, but I don't think Drummond would be Drummond if he was on the Raps. We just found minutes for Val. And that's after we traded Davis and Bargnani hit the IR.

If the raps had drafted Drummond, he'd still be struggling for minutes. And Him and Val couldn't co-exist, not as true centers with the game going small.


And raps fans need to keep in mind that Drummond refused to work out for us.

I\m not sure why Drummond wouldn't be Drummond on the Raps. It's not like he's needed all kinds of minutes in Detroit. He's only played ~1000 on the season there. And it's not like you need to get him touches, as he can get a lot of his game off without the ball.

I think the more important thing about drafting Drummond is that he would have been an asset. Maybe they couldn't have coexisted long term. Who knows. Even if they couldn't, the Raps probably could have used one of them in a package for Harden or something.