Just how mediocre are the Heat without LBJ?

[deneem4]

Bosh regressed because lebron does so much...giv bosh a full season without lebron and he'll put up aldrige #s
a starting 5 of

cole
allen
beasley
bosh
haslem

would still be a top 5 seed in the east..
Wade and chalmers start when wade is healthy, you're still lookin at a team that can shoot 3ps...midrange post and drive
oh and the heat defense has been better without lebron off the floor

[DanTown8587]

Bosh regressed because lebron does so much...giv bosh a full season without lebron and he'll put up aldrige #s
a starting 5 of

cole
allen
beasley
bosh
haslem

would still be a top 5 seed in the east..
Wade and chalmers start when wade is healthy, you're still lookin at a team that can shoot 3ps...midrange post and drive
oh and the heat defense has been better without lebron off the floor

Holy homer opinion alert Batman! That 1-3 you just described is horrific defensively and I love that you just said that switching James+Wade for Allen+Beasley is about 20 wins.

If you removed James from the team and gave the team that salary the Heat would make the East a guessing game between Indy, Miami, Toronto, Chicago, and Brooklyn as to who got the hottest late.

Some Heat fans are SEVERELY underrating how much the team relies on James to get them the shots they get either via the pass or the fact teams defend James differently. Take a guy like James off the floor and the Heat stop getting open shots because you defend straight up and don't double. Now, if Wade/Bosh are healthy and playing well that starts to open back up but Wade isn't the creator that James is.

This doesn't even begin to cover the defense that James plays.

[NBAfan3024]

They are more of a one man team than people think. Miami aren't as stacked as people say

[ShowTimeERA]

The problem is Wade has missed so much time this season whether it was precautionary or not. Aside from that, Wade has been stellar when he's out on the court.

Now the issue with Bosh is LeBron. Most players who have had success in the past and went on to later play with LeBron have all noticeably diminished in terms of effectiveness.

Let's face it, LeBron dominates the ball way too much for his teammates to have any type of confidence or rhythm . This is why team personnel has to be catered around LeBron's strength's while Durant can fit in almost any type of system.

[RSCD3_]

The problem is Wade has missed so much time this season whether it was precautionary or not. Aside from that, Wade has been stellar when he's out on the court.

Now the issue with Bosh is LeBron. Most players who have had success in the past and went on to later play with LeBron have all noticeably diminished in terms of effectiveness.

Let's face it, LeBron dominates the ball way too much for his teammates to have any type of confidence or rhythm . This is why team personnel has to be catered around LeBron's strength's while Durant can fit in almost any type of system.

Well its hard to play off ball when his point guards cant make a simple pass into the post


LeBron has stepped up his off ball game a lot more since he has came into miami

When wade is healthy he is one of the better offball players in the league. Other than wade there arent any other facilitator other than lebron on that team
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[MoneyMo]

The problem is Wade has missed so much time this season whether it was precautionary or not. Aside from that, Wade has been stellar when he's out on the court.

Now the issue with Bosh is LeBron. Most players who have had success in the past and went on to later play with LeBron have all noticeably diminished in terms of effectiveness.

Let's face it, LeBron dominates the ball way too much for his teammates to have any type of confidence or rhythm . This is why team personnel has to be catered around LeBron's strength's while Durant can fit in almost any type of system.

I don't know, how does that explain his drastic decline in rebounding? He use to grab 10-11 in TO. He just looks slow and unathletic now

[PaulieWal]

Now the issue with Bosh is LeBron. Most players who have had success in the past and went on to later play with LeBron have all noticeably diminished in terms of effectiveness.

Let's face it, LeBron dominates the ball way too much for his teammates to have any type of confidence or rhythm . This is why team personnel has to be catered around LeBron's strength's while Durant can fit in almost any type of system.

That's simply not true. Which players are you specifically referring to? I have watched nearly all of Miami's games this year. LeBron firstly has tried to play more off the ball this year but he HAS to dominate the ball when he is the only capable ball-handler on the floor with Wade out. Have you seen Chalmers and Cole play this year? They have been turnover machines, can't make plays and whenever LeBron plays as the screener in a P&R they can almost never get him the ball.

As for Bosh, the issue is with coaching. Spo has publicly refused to incorporate Bosh more in the offensive system. If you followed the Heat or read more about their play this year you would know that. LeBron can't do anything when the coach parks Bosh on the perimeter and uses him as the 5th option in the offense.

[GameTime_3]

I think the numbers and this years record is misleading. Anyone that followed the HEAT this year could clearly see that the team didn't care about the regular season. Ray Allen was quoted after last night game as "This season has dragged" and Wade's maintenance program has been about the playoffs and not regular season. You look at HEAT team and its a good supporting cast(Lets not forget the Back to Back titles) with role players that know what they are supposed to do. Battier, Ray Allen, Birdman, UD are all known commodities that know how to play the game the right way. They are older this year and the regular season was a giant bore session. Come playoffs Battier will be fighting, Ray will be give it his all and Bird will be flying. It not opinion its a fact by looking at the last 3 years. Did Spo get the most out of the team? No! Anyone who watched saw Beasley get the dog house treatment which could of helped this year with some youth. Did losing MM hurt? Yes! But looking last year he didn't do much either. So to answer the question. This team is built around LBJ to yes it would look mediocre but when healthy is team is a title contender and build to win w/ the BIG 3 leading the way.

[RSCD3_]

The heat goes as does LBJ's trick elbow. If that starts flaring up he's got his bags packed wife n kids in the car waiting at the exit of the arena, bye Miami.

There was clear evidence that he was injured in the playoffs, every game with a lot of rest he played very well but when there was only a day break he was feeling it alot

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Why did you even bother to respond to crap?

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Haha I know he what he is up to but I will always fight for the truth to be revealed

I'm the poster realGM doesnt deserve but I am what it needs right now hahaha

[COY0607]

To be clear, obviously Wade has injury issues, but I think if it were still his team and they didn't have the best player in basketball to take pressure of off him, Wade would be playing through a lot of games he's been sitting and reassume the first option role.

and if that were the case i dont think he would last 50 games.. he has a serious problem, the only reason he is playing at a high level right now is because its so much easier for him- nights off, low minutes.. I dont even think he can physically play like a first option anymore, 37+min every night

[DanTown8587]

The problem I see with many Heat fans is they are using the two titles as proof that there is nothing really wrong with their current team. Well, if Ray Allen misses a corner three last year and it's one title in the last three years (and two loses to teams with less top end talent) we're having COMPLETELY different conversations about Miami and their ability to win this year.

Now, you can say that they won their title and I'm not trying to take the win away, just that winning alone doesn't make you some invincible team and that the way you're built doesn't mean you can't be beat. To me, the 2014 Heat and 2011 Lakers have a LOT in common. And you have to remember that this current Heat team has played a do-die game 5 times (GM 6/7 2012 ECF, GM 7 2013 ECF, GM 6,7 2013 FINALS) the past two years which is a fairly high number for a team to repeat on.

LA 09,10 = 2
LA 99,00,01 = 3
HOU 94,95 = 4
CHI 91,92,93, 96,97,98 = 2

I don't know, winning is great for the year you're playing but it doesn't mean that you're just going forward with no problems the next year.

[MaliBrah]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/456167201213403136[/tweet]

[deneem4]

Miami fans don't realize how little guys like Mike miller and Joel anthony had big effects in the playoffs...

Lebron is a great player but he doesn't so much u can't utilize other teammates strengths..
like how we all found out how good kd is at creating shots when westbrook was out...or how you can literally run an offense through noah....or better yet how dominant al jefferson is in the paint on offense and surprisingly defense..

bosh is top pf...him and wade can lead the heat to be contenders....ray allen may not be jesus shuttleworth anymore but he's still a dead eye shooter....Norris cole may not be the best passer but he can drive as good as an pg in the league..beasley is still an offensive powerhouse...next to bosh and haslem in a zone...i think his defense flaws can be hidden....

heat fans have to understand lebron wants to dominate every aspect of the game when he's in the court...from assits to rebounds, scoring(with exception of the 3pt...) and defense he wants to control and lead all of that....it's good and bad at the same time

[PaulieWal]

Miami fans don't realize how little guys like Mike miller and Joel anthony had big effects in the playoffs...

Lebron is a great player but he doesn't so much u can't utilize other teammates strengths..
like how we all found out how good kd is at creating shots when westbrook was out...or how you can literally run an offense through noah....or better yet how dominant al jefferson is in the paint on offense and surprisingly defense..

bosh is top pf...him and wade can lead the heat to be contenders....ray allen may not be jesus shuttleworth anymore but he's still a dead eye shooter....Norris cole may not be the best passer but he can drive as good as an pg in the league..beasley is still an offensive powerhouse...next to bosh and haslem in a zone...i think his defense flaws can be hidden....

heat fans have to understand lebron wants to dominate every aspect of the game when he's in the court...from assits to rebounds, scoring(with exception of the 3pt...) and defense he wants to control and lead all of that....it's good and bad at the same time

deneem, I already know your stance on LeBron so I am not looking for any objectivity but I am going to ask you two simple questions. How many Heat games do you watch and how many Heat fans have you talked to on the board or have you ever visited the Heat board?

You have made some laughable claims in your post:

Joel Anthony had big moments in the playoffs
Cole can drive as good as any PG in the league
LeBron doesn't utilize teammates like KD, Russ, and Noah do
Beasley an offensive powerhouse (forget the fact I want him to be used more but "offensive powerhouse")


If you had watched maybe even 20 Heat games you would know none of this is true and for a fact you have not read the Heat board. Most people there want LeBron to do less not "Heat fans want LeBron to dominate every aspect of the game". Nobody wants him to be the leading scorer, rebounder, playmaker, and defender because he is 29 and we want him to be fresh for the playoffs.

You have a very biased perception of LeBron and that's okay but when having basketball conversation it's better to base your arguments in reality.

[DanTown8587]

2012 the Heat won on a Wade/James duo then getting a rotating third/fourth guy to step up

Last year the Heat needed even more from their non-big 3

Game 1 ECF
16 from Andersen, 10 from Chalmers = 1 point win

Game 5 ECF
12 from Chalmers, 16 from Haslem (10 in the third quarter, 6-0 personal run to make 6 point game 12) = 11 point win

Game 2 NBA Finals
19 Chalmers, 13 from Allen = 19 point win

Game 6 NBA Finals
Chalmers scored 20, Battier had 9 points in 12 minutes = 3 point OT win

Game 7 NBA Finals
Battier 18 points, Chalmers 14 points = 7 point win


Now, in some of these games they didn't get production from Bosh and/or Wade (i.e Bosh had 0 in game 7) but they were able to survive with enough around them. Now, the Heat needed that production and it doesn't look like Battier has anything left to give, Miller is in Memphis, Wade/Bosh are even worse, Andersen isn't scoring the same, etc. There really is no support system for LeBron like there was in 2010 when Wade/Bosh were constantly scoring 20+

2011 playoffs with games over 20 (21 games)
James - 15
Wade - 15
Bosh - 9
Chamlers, J. Jones - 1 each

2012 playoffs with games over 20 (23 games)
James - 22
Wade - 17
Chalmers - 3
Bosh - 2
Miller -1

2013 playoffs with games over 20 (23 games)
James - 18
Wade - 4
Allen - 4
Bosh - 2
Chalmers - 2

[defhalotones]

I hate the Heat. However, they are fine.
And to those people who say they will see a decline because of their ages, health, etc.. I disagree. It's similar to those who keep writing off the Spurs year after year. Pat Riley will work his magic. It won't be too hard to convince free agents to come to Miami and play with LeBron.

Btw, it was painful even writing that..

[Illmatic12]

They are more of a one man team than people think. Miami aren't as stacked as people say

Miami is still arguably the most stacked team in the league.. they're less stacked than they were last year, but that team is still a juggernaut.

Look around the league, who else had three All Stars this year?

[FreeChef]

To be clear, obviously Wade has injury issues, but I think if it were still his team and they didn't have the best player in basketball to take pressure of off him, Wade would be playing through a lot of games he's been sitting and reassume the first option role.

and if that were the case i dont think he would last 50 games.. he has a serious problem, the only reason he is playing at a high level right now is because its so much easier for him- nights off, low minutes.. I dont even think he can physically play like a first option anymore, 37+min every night

Who cares. The point is not to play 37+ over the course of an 82-game regular season.

He's just gotta play high minutes in the 20-odd games in the postseason where there'll be no b2b, and there'll probably be extended breaks between series. Don't be so shortsighted.

[Young_Star11]

0-1 titles with just Wade and Bosh. Don't win in 2011 and 2013 and 2012 is debatable.

[NBAfan3024]

They are more of a one man team than people think. Miami aren't as stacked as people say

Miami is still arguably the most stacked team in the league.. they're less stacked than they were last year, but that team is still a juggernaut.

Look around the league, who else had three All Stars this year?

Yeah this is true when they are healthy and on form

Heading into the playoffs they aren't.

Maybe that changes..