Reportedly Rondo Has Requested A Trade

[il_knicks7]

The reason why Harden doesn't defer to Lin isn't because he's a ball hog. Harden will defer to the right player. It just so happens that player isn't Jeremy Lin. If Rondo's a lot better than Lin, and I'm assuming most NBA fans believe he is, then Harden will defer to him the way he deferred to Durant and Westbrook.

Harden came off the bench in OKC and was a clear #3. Ever since he got traded to Houston and had a few good games, his head has reached gigantic proportions. You can't re-shrink him and make him defer to anybody anymore or make him play defense. Harden put it plain and simple - he thinks he's the best player in the league and he plays with that attitude. The cancer cannot be rolled back, it has spread too far.

[miltk]

all the contending teams are set

[il_knicks7]

wait why wouldn't he resign with the kings is he an idiot? great young core and kentucky alum...

He doesn't want to be in Sacramento? That's the way the league works right now.

[DarkAzcura]

This is gold coming from you

Why?

And how does my asking the question make the question any less valid?

This is lazy. The Bulls beat your team in the playoffs without Rose. The Celtics lost against the Knicks in the playoffs without Rondo, while actually winning a series without KG. Players step up when other players go down. Simply stating records without context is worthless unless you have a clear agenda

Arguing context when there are 4 years of data that directly contradicts this notion of Rondo being a star PG is just grasping at straws.

And if he made people around him better...why are these players stepping up and playing better without him?

I also find it funny how you constantly bring up my team, as if they have any relevance to this discussion. This is about Rondo and his supposed "impact". The Bulls beat the Nets, because the Nets weren't very good. It's not complicated.

You don't evaluate basketball by looking at 1 number, nobody does. Has he been great in every playoff series? Nobody says he has, but to pretend he hasn't been a beast at times is laughable

Funny how you mention that he has played next to KG, Paul, Ray in the playoffs while ignoring that more often than not he was simply playing next to the name and not the player

Actually, Rondo's playoff dominance is constantly brought up, as if he transforms into a completely different player...when in reality, he doesn't. He just plays more minutes, and he shoots a little more. He gives a little more effort on the offensive glass as well. That's all fine and dandy, but he's still basically the same player, and the numbers prove that.

He's been a beast, in a few playoff games. These seem to be the games that everyone remembers though, while conveniently ignoring all the playoff games he played like trash in. He was probably the biggest reason why Boston lost the 2010 Finals, with Kobe giving him 10 feet of space and Rondo not being able to do anything about it. But nobody talks about that either.

As for KG, Pierce, and Allen...I seem to remember KG constantly anchoring an elite defense year after year after year. And as I pointed out, the Celtics offense sucked from 2011-2013 (wasn't good in 2010 either). And yet, the Celtics were still winning a lot of games...because their defense was outstanding. If you honestly believe that was because of Rondo and not frikin KG still being a beast, then IDK what to tell you. And in the playoffs, it was the Celtics defense that stepped up and slowed down LeBron, Wade, and Kobe. The Celtics offense was actually pretty mediocre in their playoff runs, just like it was in the RS. And outside of 12 and 13, Pierce always stepped up in the playoffs. As did Ray Allen, outside of 2012.

This is embarrassing. He was coming back from a major injury, one that players don't really recover from until about 18 months post surgery.

He should have still made the team somewhat better. Especially since they weren't a good team to begin with. Even after looking at his season from February onwards (February Rondo was being highly touted by Celtics fans, because he was putting some big games together), the Celtics were 10-24 overall. With Rondo, they were 6-18...without him, they were 4-6.

It's a consistent theme that's been happening for 4 years now. To continue to ignore it and come up with a bunch of excuses is just strange.

You also said that DWill is just as good on defense as Rondo.

Again, you constantly bringing up irrelevant points to try and deflect the actual argument is getting kind of old. D-Will being a bum DOES NOTHING TO DISPROVE MY POINTS ABOUT RONDO. I don't know what your obsession with Deron Williams is, but you bring him up a lot whenever Rondo gets mentioned. It's weird. This discussion has nothing to do with Deron Williams. It has to do with Rondo, and there are legitimate concerns about Rondo's true impact.

BTW, I don't believe I've ever actually said that. I think I said that there wasn't a big difference defensively between the two...which was true. There wasn't. Certainly not when you compared them offensively.

But I've openly conceded since then that Deron Williams has regressed badly, that a healthy Rondo is better than him, and that Deron Williams is a bum. Unlike you, I can actually change my stance and start calling out players I used to defend when they're not worthy of being defended anymore. Rondo has proven NOTHING as the star of a team.

4 years of data? What the hell are you talking about? The only season anyone can argue the Celtics playing better without Rondo was 2012-2013, and it was still clear in the playoffs that the Celtics were missing Rondo in a bad way. Your agenda is ridiculous, and it's quite sad you can't even acknowledge how well Rondo has played in a bunch of playoff series'. You clearly do not watch the games. Even with stats, there is plenty of evidence that the Celtics played much better with Rondo than without except in 12-13. This past season is meaningless data just like Rose's "comeback" shouldn't and doesn't count for him.

It's interesting that all of the blame for the Celtics declining year by year is being pinned on Rondo instead of the fact that Ray, Pierce, and Garnett were you know...aging.

[il_knicks7]

all the contending teams are set

That's really the point. I wish there was some hard data or where he wants to go. Somebody here said Knicks, but I'm not sure Phill Jackson is going to trade multiple picks for him. Houston can't match salaries so what's left?

[Mich3006]

Rockets, Knicks, Pistons and maybe the Suns (s&t with Eric Bledsoe) could be possible destinations.

The Kings still would be the best team for him though...

[miltk]

someone brought up holiday/no

i think maybe bledsoe/phx too.

[therealbig3]

This is gold coming from you

Why?

And how does my asking the question make the question any less valid?

This is lazy. The Bulls beat your team in the playoffs without Rose. The Celtics lost against the Knicks in the playoffs without Rondo, while actually winning a series without KG. Players step up when other players go down. Simply stating records without context is worthless unless you have a clear agenda

Arguing context when there are 4 years of data that directly contradicts this notion of Rondo being a star PG is just grasping at straws.

And if he made people around him better...why are these players stepping up and playing better without him?

I also find it funny how you constantly bring up my team, as if they have any relevance to this discussion. This is about Rondo and his supposed "impact". The Bulls beat the Nets, because the Nets weren't very good. It's not complicated.

You don't evaluate basketball by looking at 1 number, nobody does. Has he been great in every playoff series? Nobody says he has, but to pretend he hasn't been a beast at times is laughable

Funny how you mention that he has played next to KG, Paul, Ray in the playoffs while ignoring that more often than not he was simply playing next to the name and not the player

Actually, Rondo's playoff dominance is constantly brought up, as if he transforms into a completely different player...when in reality, he doesn't. He just plays more minutes, and he shoots a little more. He gives a little more effort on the offensive glass as well. That's all fine and dandy, but he's still basically the same player, and the numbers prove that.

He's been a beast, in a few playoff games. These seem to be the games that everyone remembers though, while conveniently ignoring all the playoff games he played like trash in. He was probably the biggest reason why Boston lost the 2010 Finals, with Kobe giving him 10 feet of space and Rondo not being able to do anything about it. But nobody talks about that either.

As for KG, Pierce, and Allen...I seem to remember KG constantly anchoring an elite defense year after year after year. And as I pointed out, the Celtics offense sucked from 2011-2013 (wasn't good in 2010 either). And yet, the Celtics were still winning a lot of games...because their defense was outstanding. If you honestly believe that was because of Rondo and not frikin KG still being a beast, then IDK what to tell you. And in the playoffs, it was the Celtics defense that stepped up and slowed down LeBron, Wade, and Kobe. The Celtics offense was actually pretty mediocre in their playoff runs, just like it was in the RS. And outside of 12 and 13, Pierce always stepped up in the playoffs. As did Ray Allen, outside of 2012.

This is embarrassing. He was coming back from a major injury, one that players don't really recover from until about 18 months post surgery.

He should have still made the team somewhat better. Especially since they weren't a good team to begin with. Even after looking at his season from February onwards (February Rondo was being highly touted by Celtics fans, because he was putting some big games together), the Celtics were 10-24 overall. With Rondo, they were 6-18...without him, they were 4-6.

It's a consistent theme that's been happening for 4 years now. To continue to ignore it and come up with a bunch of excuses is just strange.

You also said that DWill is just as good on defense as Rondo.

Again, you constantly bringing up irrelevant points to try and deflect the actual argument is getting kind of old. D-Will being a bum DOES NOTHING TO DISPROVE MY POINTS ABOUT RONDO. I don't know what your obsession with Deron Williams is, but you bring him up a lot whenever Rondo gets mentioned. It's weird. This discussion has nothing to do with Deron Williams. It has to do with Rondo, and there are legitimate concerns about Rondo's true impact.

BTW, I don't believe I've ever actually said that. I think I said that there wasn't a big difference defensively between the two...which was true. There wasn't. Certainly not when you compared them offensively.

But I've openly conceded since then that Deron Williams has regressed badly, that a healthy Rondo is better than him, and that Deron Williams is a bum. Unlike you, I can actually change my stance and start calling out players I used to defend when they're not worthy of being defended anymore. Rondo has proven NOTHING as the star of a team.

4 years of data? What the hell are you talking about? The only season anyone can argue the Celtics playing better without Rondo was 2012-2013, and it was still clear in the playoffs that the Celtics were missing Rondo in a bad way. Your agenda is ridiculous, and it's quite sad you can't even acknowledge how well Rondo has played in a bunch of playoff series'. You clearly do not watch the games. Even with stats, there is plenty of evidence that the Celtics played much better with Rondo than without except in 12-13. This past season is meaningless data just like Rose's "comeback" shouldn't and doesn't count for him.

It's interesting that all of the blame for the Celtics declining year by year is being pinned on Rondo instead of the fact that Ray, Pierce, and Garnett were you know...aging.

Well, they also played a little better without him (according to winning percentage) in 2011-2012 as well. And yeah, they played better with him in 2010-2011, but they still went 9-5 without him that year (.643). I also don't think it's fair to completely ignore his 2014 season either.

We could also do a much more detailed analysis of this. Here's a look at the SRS change Rondo has provided to the Celtics from 2011-2013 (source: ElGee)

2011 (12 games): +0.6
2012 (6 games...controlling for KG/Pierce/Allen): +1.3
2013 (43 games): -3.2

The positive impact is pretty negligible, and then we have the aforementioned 2013 season, where the Celtics played a lot better without him over 43 games.

If we do some math, Rondo's overall SRS value to the Celtics from 2011-2013 based on his games missed was -2.0, over 61 games. Not a small sample size...that's about 3/4 of a season. Also, ElGee didn't control for KG's missed games in 2013 either (he missed a lot of games down the stretch, which coincided with the Celtics losing a lot...they were actually playing at a really high level after Rondo's injury and before KG's injury). Pretty sure the SRS value would have been even lower if KG is controlled for in the 2013 sample.

Even when Rondo helps his team (2011 and 2012), it's by a tiny amount. And the one time we have a huge sample size to look at with and without him, the team plays a lot better without him (2013).

It's really not an agenda: the evidence is telling us that he's clearly not a star-level player, but he's being treated as such.

[KF10]

He does looks good in a Kings jersey though:

[og15]

Rondo is just so hard to build a good team around. Because of his limitations, you need to basically give him a stacked team.

Since he's such a crappy shooter, you need to basically surround him with at least 3 great shooters so as not to kill floor spacing. Since he's such an assist-padder, you need to give him finishers in addition to the shooters. Since he's such an incompetent scorer (can't shoot, can't finish, can't hit FTs), and since he's so dependent on set plays as a result, you need to also give him guys that are competent ISO scorers that can create for themselves.

Wait a minute...isn't that EXACTLY what he's had in Boston? Shooters (Pierce, Allen, Garnett, Bass, Davis), finishers (Garnett, Davis, Green), and ISO scorers (Pierce, Allen to an extent)? And he was still only able to lead the 18th, 27th, and 24th ranked offenses from 2011-2013?

For some reason, all of the damning evidence against Rondo gets completely ignored, because he happens to pad assists and get a lot of rebounds, so his stat lines tend to look nice.

Rondo always ELEVATED his game when KG/PP/Ray were out. Using last year after coming back from knee surgery isn't exactly a great example to use.

Boston's teams were built around defense. What exactly have KG/PP/Davis done since leaving to warrant that they were helping Rondo's career but not the other way around? Ray is the only guy who's looked great without Rondo, but he played next to Lebron/Wade/Bosh. Pretty easy for one of the greatest shooters of all time to sit back and hit open 3's next to those guys.

And a massive LOL at Big Baby Davis being a "shooter" & "finisher". Rondo would get this guy so many open looks that he'd fumble and then get blocked on. I'm sure he was the most blocked player in the league for several years with Boston. The guy was just awful but Rondo made him look half decent. Even CP3 can't make this guy look any better than Rondo did

To be accurate though, Davis shot a career high 48.1% FG with the Clippers and a career second best .527 TS% in his 23 games, he also shot a career playoff high 61.0% FG and since all his points came from the field, also a career playoff high .610 TS% in his 13 playoff games with LAC. Finishing wise he actually didn't look bad on the Clippers this past season.

Small regular season sample size, but it is what it is.

[MoneyTalks41890]

If only Phoenix kept Frye. That would be an amazing combo. Agree Bledsoe SnT makes a ton of sense but I don't see it happening. Love Bledsoe on that young Celtics team.

[RSCD3_]

I heard someone mention a holiday-rondo swap but I think tyreje evans is more productive being the main ballhandler and having holiday be more of an offball shooter which he is great at.

Id also try to trade gordon for a SF or Picks

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[baki]

Who the hell wants Rondo?

It seems nobody likes playing with him.

[Froob]

lol@ people thinking Ainge is going to pay Bledsoe the max. Fuhgeddaboudit.

Who the hell wants Rondo?

It seems nobody likes playing with him.

Uh...how about almost everyone he's played with? (Aside from Ray Allen who has had trouble with multiple teammates) Avery Bradley went on and on about how Rondo came to see him play for the Red Claws and mentored him. KG and Pierce love him to death as did Keyon Dooling and Marquis Daniels. And Perkins was Rondo's best friend on the team. I've also heard Scal go on about how great of a teammate Rondo was as well. So not sure where you're trying to go with that almost(#20 being only exception I can remember seeing) everybody he's ever played with has loved him.

[Froob]

He doesn't want to be exposed in Boston, like last year.
Career low is shooting %
Drops 9 assists for loses.

he had 9.8 assists per game with one of the worse teams in the league and coming off an ACL injury. The Rondo hate on the main board has gotten beyond idiotic. No other point guard in the league is going to put up close to 10 assists a game with Jeff Green and Avery Bradley as their main options.

[snoopdogg88]

rondo seems like such a miserable salty jerk lol

i don't know what it is but he intimidates the heck out of me. must be that he never smiles

i'd be scared to play with him

[Devilzsidewalk]

He does looks good in a Kings jersey though:

looks pretty boss in a knicks jersey too though imo

[Bro Johnson]

He doesn't want to be exposed in Boston, like last year.
Career low is shooting %
Drops 9 assists for loses.

he had 9.8 assists per game with one of the worse teams in the league and coming off an ACL injury. The Rondo hate on the main board has gotten beyond idiotic. No other point guard in the league is going to put up close to 10 assists a game with Jeff Green and Avery Bradley as their main options.

Eh a number of point guards could if they deliberately passed up open shots / refused to take shots and / or put their team on their backs, in favor of stat-padding their assists by chucking the ball to notorious chuckers...

[DarkAzcura]

Why?

And how does my asking the question make the question any less valid?



Arguing context when there are 4 years of data that directly contradicts this notion of Rondo being a star PG is just grasping at straws.

And if he made people around him better...why are these players stepping up and playing better without him?

I also find it funny how you constantly bring up my team, as if they have any relevance to this discussion. This is about Rondo and his supposed "impact". The Bulls beat the Nets, because the Nets weren't very good. It's not complicated.



Actually, Rondo's playoff dominance is constantly brought up, as if he transforms into a completely different player...when in reality, he doesn't. He just plays more minutes, and he shoots a little more. He gives a little more effort on the offensive glass as well. That's all fine and dandy, but he's still basically the same player, and the numbers prove that.

He's been a beast, in a few playoff games. These seem to be the games that everyone remembers though, while conveniently ignoring all the playoff games he played like trash in. He was probably the biggest reason why Boston lost the 2010 Finals, with Kobe giving him 10 feet of space and Rondo not being able to do anything about it. But nobody talks about that either.

As for KG, Pierce, and Allen...I seem to remember KG constantly anchoring an elite defense year after year after year. And as I pointed out, the Celtics offense sucked from 2011-2013 (wasn't good in 2010 either). And yet, the Celtics were still winning a lot of games...because their defense was outstanding. If you honestly believe that was because of Rondo and not frikin KG still being a beast, then IDK what to tell you. And in the playoffs, it was the Celtics defense that stepped up and slowed down LeBron, Wade, and Kobe. The Celtics offense was actually pretty mediocre in their playoff runs, just like it was in the RS. And outside of 12 and 13, Pierce always stepped up in the playoffs. As did Ray Allen, outside of 2012.



He should have still made the team somewhat better. Especially since they weren't a good team to begin with. Even after looking at his season from February onwards (February Rondo was being highly touted by Celtics fans, because he was putting some big games together), the Celtics were 10-24 overall. With Rondo, they were 6-18...without him, they were 4-6.

It's a consistent theme that's been happening for 4 years now. To continue to ignore it and come up with a bunch of excuses is just strange.



Again, you constantly bringing up irrelevant points to try and deflect the actual argument is getting kind of old. D-Will being a bum DOES NOTHING TO DISPROVE MY POINTS ABOUT RONDO. I don't know what your obsession with Deron Williams is, but you bring him up a lot whenever Rondo gets mentioned. It's weird. This discussion has nothing to do with Deron Williams. It has to do with Rondo, and there are legitimate concerns about Rondo's true impact.

BTW, I don't believe I've ever actually said that. I think I said that there wasn't a big difference defensively between the two...which was true. There wasn't. Certainly not when you compared them offensively.

But I've openly conceded since then that Deron Williams has regressed badly, that a healthy Rondo is better than him, and that Deron Williams is a bum. Unlike you, I can actually change my stance and start calling out players I used to defend when they're not worthy of being defended anymore. Rondo has proven NOTHING as the star of a team.

4 years of data? What the hell are you talking about? The only season anyone can argue the Celtics playing better without Rondo was 2012-2013, and it was still clear in the playoffs that the Celtics were missing Rondo in a bad way. Your agenda is ridiculous, and it's quite sad you can't even acknowledge how well Rondo has played in a bunch of playoff series'. You clearly do not watch the games. Even with stats, there is plenty of evidence that the Celtics played much better with Rondo than without except in 12-13. This past season is meaningless data just like Rose's "comeback" shouldn't and doesn't count for him.

It's interesting that all of the blame for the Celtics declining year by year is being pinned on Rondo instead of the fact that Ray, Pierce, and Garnett were you know...aging.

Well, they also played a little better without him (according to winning percentage) in 2011-2012 as well. And yeah, they played better with him in 2010-2011, but they still went 9-5 without him that year (.643). I also don't think it's fair to completely ignore his 2014 season either.

We could also do a much more detailed analysis of this. Here's a look at the SRS change Rondo has provided to the Celtics from 2011-2013 (source: ElGee)

2011 (12 games): +0.6
2012 (6 games...controlling for KG/Pierce/Allen): +1.3
2013 (43 games): -3.2

The positive impact is pretty negligible, and then we have the aforementioned 2013 season, where the Celtics played a lot better without him over 43 games.

If we do some math, Rondo's overall SRS value to the Celtics from 2011-2013 based on his games missed was -2.0, over 61 games. Not a small sample size...that's about 3/4 of a season. Also, ElGee didn't control for KG's missed games in 2013 either (he missed a lot of games down the stretch, which coincided with the Celtics losing a lot...they were actually playing at a really high level after Rondo's injury and before KG's injury). Pretty sure the SRS value would have been even lower if KG is controlled for in the 2013 sample.

Even when Rondo helps his team (2011 and 2012), it's by a tiny amount. And the one time we have a huge sample size to look at with and without him, the team plays a lot better without him (2013).

It's really not an agenda: the evidence is telling us that he's clearly not a star-level player, but he's being treated as such.

I am a big fan of advanced statistics but like always context is incredibly important. If you think the Celtics would have been within 10 minutes of the NBA Finals in 2012 without Rondo, I'll say I have a bridge to sell you. This is where the eye test is important, and it was incredibly apparent that without Rondo doing his thing on offense and KG doing his on defense, we would have been a first round out. Rondo took over the pace and control in several pivotal games in those playoffs, and if it weren't for some terrible end of the game calls by the refs, Rondo's game 2 vs the Heat would have went down in history as the game that broke the Heat Big 3 apart most likely because the Celtics would have likely won the series if they grabbed that game. Watching the Celtics completely fall apart bringing the ball up vs the Knicks the very next year really made it clear how important Rondo was to the Celtics in the playoffs. That's why I take such a huge issue with you calling Rondo barely better in the playoffs. The 2012 and 2013 playoffs pretty much cemented why Rondo was such a big deal for the Celtics for various reasons.

You cite the 2010 Finals as an example of a series lost because of Rondo, but I contend the Celtics would not have even been there without Rondo's absolutely dominating series vs the Cavs. There's also no way in hell the Celtics would have been knocking on the door of the ECF in 2009 without Rondo and Ray Allen tearing up the Bulls. There was a clear difference in 2011 on the Celtics offensive flow in the playoffs once he dislocated his elbow also.

[Infinite Llamas]

Now the rumour is being denied by Rondo and his agent...

I tend to believe that it was a lot of hogwash to begin with. Rondo might not be an angel, but I just can't see him doing this to the Celtics after all the contenders have spent their money and have cemented their rosters. Boston has been a good home to Rondo, and I don't think he would force the C's into a penny-on-the-dollar deal.

Personally, I thought this rumour was garbage when Jackie had us acquiring Isaiah Thomas from the Kings...