Kobe calls Dwight 'soft'

[richboy]

This is the difference between winners/competitors/dogs (whatever you wanna call it) like Kobe... and Dwight Howard and James Harden and all those other prima donnas

IN JULY 2013, after one tumultuous season in LA, Dwight Howard had reached free agency with a flood of carefully arranged meetings with the Rockets, Hawks, Mavericks, Warriors and Lakers. For the Lakers, it was a dry run for the 2014 recruiting game. Could they persuade a major star to stay with Bryant?
The Lakers meeting took place in Beverly Hills on July 2 in the modernist, windowless conference room at Relativity Media -- the offices of Howard's agent. Kupchak, Howard's closest ally on the team, prepped the Lakers' pitch. One big point: Listen carefully. Another: Dress appropriately. "Our approach," a Lakers source explained at the time, "is that we are interviewing for the job. We want to show that this is a place his dreams can come true."
As the Lakers' contingent settled into the conference room's ergonomic chairs, it was clear that two-time MVP point guard Steve Nash, in a nice crisp shirt, listening attentively, was running Kupchak's game plan. But Bryant showed up, according to a person in the room, in "hoops shorts, a T-shirt and a gold chain." He had also packed an attitude.
When Howard asked why his teammates let the injured center take all the flak when the Lakers' season went south, Nash said he didn't know that Howard had felt that way and that had he known, he would have acted differently. Bryant, on the other hand, offered a crash course in developing thick skin and a mini lecture on learning how to win. He didn’t understand the mentality of the Lakers having to try to convince Dwight to stay with the Lakers. Bryant’s stance on the situation was basically “Why are we the ones you (Dwight) to stay? We’re the ones with 5 Championship rings, we’re the ones who have got it done. You haven’t learned how to win yet, you haven’t won anything yet. You should be the one convincing US to keep you.”
Sources told ESPN Insider Chris Broussard that Bryant's lecture was "a complete turnoff" for Howard.
"It wasn't an easy meeting to be involved in," Kupchak later said on Cowherd's radio show. "And I decline to go into great detail." Howard shortly thereafter chose to leave for the Rockets, even though it cost him roughly $30 million in guaranteed salary.

No this is the reason why Kobe will be losing a lot of games to finish his career. That is going to be your pitch to free agents. In essence we are the Lakers so bow down to us?

This is the biggest reality that Kobe and the Lakers don't get. Dr. Buss is not there. Shaq is not there. Phil Jackson is not there. Jerry West is not there. Kobe is the only thing that ties them to any kind of winning. Guess what. People think that those others had a lot more to do with the winning than Kobe. In Kobe's world he is Michael Jordan. He is Lebron James. In his world he thinks he can elevate teams to win titles. This is the straight reality. Dwight would have played with Lebron, MJ in a second. He tried to play with Chris Paul in Orlando and when he was a free agent. This might go over the head of many Laker fans but in the mind Dwight if Phil Jackson is not coaching the Lakers Kobe is not good enough. He especially now is a inefficient high volume no defense jump shooter.

[trustykilo]

Would Kobe be saying these kinds of things if the Lakers were contenders and had any chance of winning? Would he be saying this if it wasn't his farewell last contract? Lakers are terrible even the biggest Laker/Kobe homers (steven a smith etc) will admit this. They suck, Kobe is irrelevant right now. So he lets it all out to create some drama for him to be in the news. Pathetic.

Hopefully Dwight just ignores this baiting. Everyone has moved on but Jeannie Buss and Kobe. Let's talk about the real contenders in the league. This is worst than bathroom gossiping with teenage girls.

[Elden Payton]

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

[DoubleLintendre]

This has got to be one of the silliest "trash talk" encounters of all time. Kobe calls Howard a "teddy bear" and we talk about it for 10 pages

"TEDDY BEAR"?!

C'mon at least throw something homophobic in there Kobe!

What did Howard respond with, "Well Kobe has cooties"?

[olive_triangurl]

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

You read my mind, exactly

[TONY_YAYO]

who cares???????????the Lakers lost by 25 pts when this altercation happened the game was already decided

[jaypo]

How about Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Wade? There's one more that I can't think of, but his comments were specifically that he didn't want to play there because of Kobe. All of them had the chance to sign wherever they wanted, and how many of them chose to pair up with the "best player of our generation???" Nevermind all of the comments that came out last week from Lakers personnel. There's a reason for that. When you are trying to recruit the best center in the league, and you tell him "there's a pecking order, and you're 3rd in line"- that tends to rub a few people the wrong way.

Lol at you choosing to ignore my post. Oh we'll I'll respond to this one and probably not get a response. Oh well.

Now then, Melo, Bosh, Lebron Wade and we all know you were speaking of Howard, even though he's never come out PUBLICLY and said he didn't want to play with Kobe. But we'll address all these players.

Lebron: Suited multiple teams, was essentially down to Miami and Cleveland with him favoring Cleveland whom he chose. One team has been to Finals four years in a row. The other was in position to acquire a 25 and 12 player along with a 20 and 6 player with another 15 ppg player and room to sign decent role players along with a new coach, a franchise ready to concede its life to you along with a city that is yours less than an hour from your place of birth. On the other hand there's a thirty-six year old Kobe, Jeremy Lin and a rookie. Hmmm, not a bad choice.

Wade: Wasn't really courted by anyone other than Miami, but I suppose you could say Chicago was in the mix if only because it's his hometown. That aside (If he did entertain it it would've been the best team in East), a team where he's won three championships with, the team that drafted him that still one of the best teams in the East or go to the Lakers with a thirty-six year old Kobe who plays the same position, Jeremy Lin, a rookie and scrubs. Again, not a tough choice.

Melo: At thirty years old, he could stay in New York to the tune of 124 Million which a new president of basketball operations who looks to be making moves to contend around him or play with a thirty-six year old Kobe, Jeremy Lin, and a rookie and a bunch of scrubs. Hmmm, not a tough choice.

Bosh: Was being courted by Houston and Miami. Personally I thought he should have gone to Houston, but again, let's take a look. The plan for Houston was to have Dwight Howard, Bosh, Parson, Harden and Beverly, allowing him to play the four like he likes and an alright bench. Instead he stuck with Miami with Wade, a team that's been to four consecutive Finals, now sans Lebron and a few new pieces. Still one of the best teams in the East. But you think he should have left for a thirty-six year old Kobe, Jeremy Lin, a rookie and a bunch of scrubs.

Howard: Made his decision a year prior. I forget who all courted him and their situations, but you expected him to stay with a half aging and injured, half scrub roster with a bad coach over a team with young talent and a flexible cap situation. Again, it really wasn't much of a contest.

Now then, in regards to these comments from "Lakers Personnel", who are they? Can you please tell me who they are? Heck, can you please tell me what player came out publicly and said "I did not sign with the Lakers because of Kobe"? Can you?

Also, who said anything of the sort about being the third in line of a pecking order? Can you provide sources for any of this or do you just like making stuff up to suit your bias?

I don't know who in the Lakers circles said it because they refused to release the names in the article. Do you think anyone in the organization would willingly put their names out there? The article just said someone in the Lakers' organization. MY source would be the writer of the article!

It was Howard that was told directly by Kobe that he'd be 3rd in the pecking order. And that was when he met with him directly. And it came out of Kobe's own mouth. So no, it wasn't my bias that was coming into the picture. It was Kobe's own words.

With all those above, they may not have said directly that they "won't play with Kobe', but Melo was seriously rumored to sign with them, but chose not to. Could be money. Could be Kobe. But the fact of the matter is this- Kobe fanboyz love to point out that Kobe is the "best eva" and that he's this ultimate winner. It makes sense that if you're an NBA player and you have a chance to team with the "best eva", you would do it, right? Well, if it's about money, then Kobe's the reason. There wasn't enough flexibility in the payroll because of his ridiculous extension. If it's not about money, then it's about the chance to win. If Kobe's the best eva, then Kobe plus another supastar should be the tits, right? Well, they didn't see it that way. So directly or indirectly, the common denominator is Kobe.

Oh, did I fail to mention the fact that he is the most selfish player of this generation, held his team hostage thru free agency, demanded to be traded about a million times, feuded with pretty much every member of his team and coaches, publicly blasted his teammates, fans, coaches, and front office, and STILL gets criticized by his teammates as being selfish? Is that not enough fuel? Do you need more?

How about this little gem to paint a picture of his character. From Phil Jackson, someone that knows more about Kobe than ANYONE on this forum- after the 04 season, Phil asked Shaq to swallow his pride and put the feud behind him. Even though Shaq knew Kobe, to save his own butt, had told the cops that Shaq paid women "hush money" which cause marital problems for Shaq, he agreed to do it because, and I quote, "I think we can still win titles together." After that, Phil met with Kobe and asked the same of Kobe. Kobe's response- "No. I'm tired of being a sidekick". Now, if you don't want to take my "biased" opinion of Kobe at face value, why don't you listen to your hero's own words! He refused to put the team ahead of his ego. Shaq, who had way more reason to hate Kobe than Kobe had to hate him agreed to bury the hatchet for the sake of the team. Kobe flat our refused due to his selfishness! How much more plainly could it be put?

So when people try to defend Kobe and place more blame at the feet of others, I always look back to that scenario. And the subsequent interviews where he flat out reiterated those same sentiments (last year) tell me all I need to hear. He didn't like the fact that Shaq said Kobe couldn't win without him, and he orchestrated Shaq's exile, Phil's exile, and by demanding a trade if he didn't get more help, he orchestrated getting Gasol for basically nothing (in a rather shady deal involving Mr. Laker, Jerry West). And you want to defend that kind of behavior?

[jaypo]

This is the difference between winners/competitors/dogs (whatever you wanna call it) like Kobe... and Dwight Howard and James Harden and all those other prima donnas

IN JULY 2013, after one tumultuous season in LA, Dwight Howard had reached free agency with a flood of carefully arranged meetings with the Rockets, Hawks, Mavericks, Warriors and Lakers. For the Lakers, it was a dry run for the 2014 recruiting game. Could they persuade a major star to stay with Bryant?
The Lakers meeting took place in Beverly Hills on July 2 in the modernist, windowless conference room at Relativity Media -- the offices of Howard's agent. Kupchak, Howard's closest ally on the team, prepped the Lakers' pitch. One big point: Listen carefully. Another: Dress appropriately. "Our approach," a Lakers source explained at the time, "is that we are interviewing for the job. We want to show that this is a place his dreams can come true."
As the Lakers' contingent settled into the conference room's ergonomic chairs, it was clear that two-time MVP point guard Steve Nash, in a nice crisp shirt, listening attentively, was running Kupchak's game plan. But Bryant showed up, according to a person in the room, in "hoops shorts, a T-shirt and a gold chain." He had also packed an attitude.
When Howard asked why his teammates let the injured center take all the flak when the Lakers' season went south, Nash said he didn't know that Howard had felt that way and that had he known, he would have acted differently. Bryant, on the other hand, offered a crash course in developing thick skin and a mini lecture on learning how to win. He didn’t understand the mentality of the Lakers having to try to convince Dwight to stay with the Lakers. Bryant’s stance on the situation was basically “Why are we the ones you (Dwight) to stay? We’re the ones with 5 Championship rings, we’re the ones who have got it done. You haven’t learned how to win yet, you haven’t won anything yet. You should be the one convincing US to keep you.”
Sources told ESPN Insider Chris Broussard that Bryant's lecture was "a complete turnoff" for Howard.
"It wasn't an easy meeting to be involved in," Kupchak later said on Cowherd's radio show. "And I decline to go into great detail." Howard shortly thereafter chose to leave for the Rockets, even though it cost him roughly $30 million in guaranteed salary.

No this is the reason why Kobe will be losing a lot of games to finish his career. That is going to be your pitch to free agents. In essence we are the Lakers so bow down to us?

This is the biggest reality that Kobe and the Lakers don't get. Dr. Buss is not there. Shaq is not there. Phil Jackson is not there. Jerry West is not there. Kobe is the only thing that ties them to any kind of winning. Guess what. People think that those others had a lot more to do with the winning than Kobe. In Kobe's world he is Michael Jordan. He is Lebron James. In his world he thinks he can elevate teams to win titles. This is the straight reality. Dwight would have played with Lebron, MJ in a second. He tried to play with Chris Paul in Orlando and when he was a free agent. This might go over the head of many Laker fans but in the mind Dwight if Phil Jackson is not coaching the Lakers Kobe is not good enough. He especially now is a inefficient high volume no defense jump shooter.

Well put, Richboy! It's nice to agree with you for once!!

[bigben998]

Even in defeat Kobe comes off as a boss, and makes Dwight Coward look like a chump.

Not sure what game you were watching......Kobe looked anything but like a boss in this one. Anyone can call anyone anything in this league....does not mean they are right. I respect the hell out of Kobe but it almost seems like since he can't let his play do the talking anymore, now he has to use that mouth a little bit more. I feel for him though, since his team is so terrible. I was surprised to see how many points he got last night until I saw how many shots he took. Anyway....Dwight took the high road in this one.

[WOX_69]

Oh I'm going to have fun with this again.

I don't know who in the Lakers circles said it because they refused to release the names in the article. Do you think anyone in the organization would willingly put their names out there? The article just said someone in the Lakers' organization. MY source would be the writer of the article!

So you're going to just trust what Henry Abbott, a journalist from Portland, who lives in New Jersey has to say about Laker affairs? You mean to tell me you're going to take this as proof positive from an individual who once was in a video of Kobe dunks talking about how he could have passed the ball instead? The same guy who wrote a whole long article about how Kobe supposedly isn't clutch? You're trusting this guy? I mean, do you know anything about Henry Abbott?

It was Howard that was told directly by Kobe that he'd be 3rd in the pecking order. And that was when he met with him directly. And it came out of Kobe's own mouth. So no, it wasn't my bias that was coming into the picture. It was Kobe's own words.

Again, I'm going to need a source about this happening. You saying it means nothing in that regard. Heck, give me an article from someone credible even referencing it.

With all those above, they may not have said directly that they "won't play with Kobe', but Melo was seriously rumored to sign with them, but chose not to. Could be money. Could be Kobe.

When was Melo ever seriously considering Los Angeles? People SPECULATED that and the Lakers certainly made a heavy offer but it was really down to Chicago and New York. Your "Money or Kobe" either or situation fails to mention a plethora of other reasons why he decided to stay in New York. You saying that would be like me saying he didn't sign with Chicago because of either money or Derrick Rose. Either or. See how that just doesn't really give credence to the situation at hand?

But the fact of the matter is this- Kobe fanboyz love to point out that Kobe is the "best eva" and that he's this ultimate winner.

Don't "fanboyz" of any player do that? Is this something mutually exclusive of Kobe or am I missing something?

It makes sense that if you're an NBA player and you have a chance to team with the "best eva", you would do it, right?

So you're now equating what "fanboyz" say to what an NBA player thinks? That's....a bit odd, but I'll play along. Did you see "fanboyz" of Jordan flock to the Wizards when he came back? Try to force their way to Chicago when he was there? What you're saying doesn't make sense in the scope of the NBA. Players sign where they want for a variety of reasons.

Well, if it's about money, then Kobe's the reason. There wasn't enough flexibility in the payroll because of his ridiculous extension.

There was enough for one max contract and one "high" contract pending certain moves. Two if they found a way to offload Nash or had amnestied him. That said given the NBA climate, there wasn't anyone available to put together a team that would be contending for a long time. Kobe's thirty-six. The biggest free agents of the summer were thirty plus.

If it's not about money, then it's about the chance to win. If Kobe's the best eva, then Kobe plus another supastar should be the tits, right? Well, they didn't see it that way. So directly or indirectly, the common denominator is Kobe.

Again, you're taking this "fanboyz" idea and attributing it to players for some odd reason. As recently as 2011 the NBA should be on notice to understand that star power alone does not win. So just because you put big names together does not guarantee a championship. Heck even the Lakers know that going back to 2004 (Inb4yousayKobeisthereasontheydidn'twinin2004).

Oh, did I fail to mention the fact that he is the most selfish player of this generation,

Uuuuh, how?

held his team hostage thru free agency,

If he's a free agent then he has no team to hold hostage. This point is mute.

demanded to be traded about a million times,

Uuuuh, once in the summer of 2007. So what's your point? Magic did it at one point, Paul Pierce did it the same summer (Went under the radar due to Kobe's request), Howard's done it, Melo's done it, Love's done it, the list goes on and on and on.

feuded with pretty much every member of his team and coaches,

He's feuded with Shaq, Howard and Smush parker. That's three players over a nineteen year career and I won't even begin to imagine how many different teammates. I'll give you another one for Karl Malone due to Malone hitting on his wife. So four.

So far as coaches he's never really feuded with coaches. Phil had his comments about him in his first book and came back to coach him. He didn't think too much of Mike Brown or Mike D'Antoni from what I imagine but that's about it. Nothing with Del Harris, Bertka, Rambis, Hamblen, Tomjanovich, or Bickerstaff. And nothing with Scott so far. So really, I don't know where you're coming up with all of this

publicly blasted his teammates, fans, coaches, and front office, and STILL gets criticized by his teammates as being selfish? Is that not enough fuel? Do you need more?

And everything you've mentioned has been done by players throughout the league for as long as the league has existed, it's nothing unique to Kobe. What is your point here?

How about this little gem to paint a picture of his character. From Phil Jackson, someone that knows more about Kobe than ANYONE on this forum- after the 04 season, Phil asked Shaq to swallow his pride and put the feud behind him. Even though Shaq knew Kobe, to save his own butt, had told the cops that Shaq paid women "hush money" which cause marital problems for Shaq, he agreed to do it because, and I quote, "I think we can still win titles together." After that, Phil met with Kobe and asked the same of Kobe. Kobe's response- "No. I'm tired of being a sidekick".

Well, let's break this down. Was Kobe wrong for mentioning Shaq's situation to the police? Yes. Do I believe he did it more out of fear than to discredit Shaq? Yes. Kobe didn't know the comments he told investigators would be told to Shaq and to the public at large. Also, Shaq's responsible for his own marital problems. If he didn't cheat, Kobe wouldn't have had anything to say, right? But before you harp in on that I will say once again Kobe was wrong for mentioning Shaq in this regard.

Now to the important part of this, you're incorrectly quoting the book. The correct quote is "There's no doubt about that," he said. "I've done that for eight years with him, but I'm tired of being a sidekick." when asked if Shaq being back would have affected his decision to come back or not. Before the quote I posted he said "Yes. It does.". You choose to read that how you want. I read that as he didn't have a problem playing WITH Shaq, but that he didn't want to be treated as second fiddle to him any longer. To either be equals or to be the number one option. Now you take that for what you will.

Now, if you don't want to take my "biased" opinion of Kobe at face value, why don't you listen to your hero's own words!

Who's my hero?

He refused to put the team ahead of his ego. Shaq, who had way more reason to hate Kobe than Kobe had to hate him agreed to bury the hatchet for the sake of the team. Kobe flat our refused due to his selfishness! How much more plainly could it be put?

When this meeting took place Kobe was looking at becoming a free agent, he could do as he pleases. Also, like I said, the quote never said anything about NOT playing with Shaq. Quite literally it just said he's done playing sidekick. One can play with someone without being a sidekick.

So when people try to defend Kobe and place more blame at the feet of others, I always look back to that scenario.

The problem is you incorrectly remember things, you read into things more than you ought to and you refuse to admit all people had a share in the break down of relations. Shaq, Kobe, Phil, Mitch, Buss, they all could have handled the situation better. Also you refuse to read anything about the situation from Phil's second book. He goes back and addresses a lot of the things from 2004.

And the subsequent interviews where he flat out reiterated those same sentiments (last year) tell me all I need to hear.

From these interactions it seems you just choose to hear what you're willing to hear.

He didn't like the fact that Shaq said Kobe couldn't win without him,

Uh, was he supposed to be happy Shaq said that? That others said that? What's your point?

Phil's exile,

False. Shaq demanded a trade after he said he found out Phil had be "fired"(Retired/quit, whatever you want to call it). Jerry Buss had told Kobe that he wasn't re-signing Shaq regardless of Kobe's decision to the amount of money Shaq wanted.

and by demanding a trade if he didn't get more help,

And like I said, Pierce had done the same thing that summer though it went under the radar due to Kobe's demand. Players do this all the time. What's your point in mentioning when Kobe did it?

he orchestrated getting Gasol for basically nothing (in a rather shady deal involving Mr. Laker, Jerry West). And you want to defend that kind of behavior?

Lol, Kobe had nothing to do with the process to get Gasol. Neither did Jerry West, seeing has how he was not apart of the Memphis Grizzlies organization at the time nor was he apart of the Lakers.

Shady deal? How so, lol, it was completely within legal parameters of the NBA. You'd have a better case (Though equally as fruitless) for the KG Celtics trade signing as McHale was GM of the Timberwolves and Ainge was/still is the GM of the Celtics.

Also, I'm doing this to address your inaccuracies and biases comments.

[WOX_69]

No this is the reason why Kobe will be losing a lot of games to finish his career. That is going to be your pitch to free agents. In essence we are the Lakers so bow down to us?

This is the biggest reality that Kobe and the Lakers don't get. Dr. Buss is not there. Shaq is not there. Phil Jackson is not there. Jerry West is not there. Kobe is the only thing that ties them to any kind of winning. Guess what. People think that those others had a lot more to do with the winning than Kobe. In Kobe's world he is Michael Jordan. He is Lebron James. In his world he thinks he can elevate teams to win titles. This is the straight reality. Dwight would have played with Lebron, MJ in a second. He tried to play with Chris Paul in Orlando and when he was a free agent. This might go over the head of many Laker fans but in the mind Dwight if Phil Jackson is not coaching the Lakers Kobe is not good enough. He especially now is a inefficient high volume no defense jump shooter.

Lol, WHAT? You think Dwight would play with Michael Jordan but can't play with Kobe? The same player who punched Will Purdue and goaded Bill Cartwright relentlessly is less uh....."mean" I guess I'll say than Lebron? The same GM who called Kwame Brown a less than desirable name would somehow have gotten him to stay with his attitude? Are you sure you don't want to think this?

In reference to Lebron, I don't know what Lebron would be like a thirty-five after an Achilles injury but you're right in him probably being able to keep Dwight. Lebron's been used to the pampering the Dwight needs. No knock on either of them but that's apparently what they need and that's that.

I could see Dwight playing with CP3 because while he doesn't seem to need the pampering that Lebron and Dwight need, he's enjoyed just about the same level of success of Dwight (Dwight has made it to the Finals while CP3 hasn't made it to the Conference Finals) they both can relate on trying to get the the ultimate prize.

As far as being inefficient, Kobe will more than likely shoot over forty-five percent (Which he's done two third of his career), which is good for a guard. Not sure where the inefficient part comes in.

In what ways did Kobe NOT elevate his teams to win? He has five championships? Why would he want to Lebron in this case? He has three more championships. Just what are you REALLY trying to say here?

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

Wait, so you're blasting people for acting as they know Kobe and yet....you're acting as if you know Kobe? Alright.

Would Kobe be saying these kinds of things if the Lakers were contenders and had any chance of winning? Would he be saying this if it wasn't his farewell last contract? Lakers are terrible even the biggest Laker/Kobe homers (steven a smith etc) will admit this. They suck, Kobe is irrelevant right now. So he lets it all out to create some drama for him to be in the news. Pathetic.

Hopefully Dwight just ignores this baiting. Everyone has moved on but Jeannie Buss and Kobe. Let's talk about the real contenders in the league. This is worst than bathroom gossiping with teenage girls.

Following Kobe for his entire career......yes he would have. And yes the Lakers suck but I wouldn't say Kobe is irrelevant.

[Star-Lord]

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

So presuming to know what a stranger is thinking is creepy and pathetic, but presuming to know how tough a stranger may or may not be based solely on the surroundings he grew up in isn't?

Yeah, that's balanced.

[jaypo]

WOX- I think it is you that hears what you want to hear. In the conversation with Phil, Kobe said that Shaq's existence as a Laker would definitely affect him re-signing with the team. And the "tired of being a sidekick" line was the icing on the cake. So basically, he's saying that if Shaq's there in 05, I'm not, and it's because I'm tired of being 2nd fiddle. I don't know what you think all of that meant. But it's pretty clear to me. So you're the one choosing to read it differently. He flat out says, and it's quoting Kobe himself, that Shaq being back would affect his decision because he was tired of being a sidekick. Not sure what you think it meant, but I'm pretty confident with my assessment.

The majority of your arguments seem to be "well, he did it, so that doesn't make it wrong". Need I use the "if Paul Pierce jumped off of a bridge" defense??

He's never feuded with coaches? Need I mention Phil saying he wouldn't return if Kobe was there because he's uncoachable? Need I mention that Phil was pretty much demanding Kobe be shipped to Phoenix for JKidd and Shawn Marion? This is coming from a coach that tamed Dennis Rodman!!! Sure, he came back. But I'd coach Bin Laden for the money they paid PJax!!

So he only feuded with 3 players. I guess punching a guy in the face on a bus (Samaki Walker) isn't considered a feud, huh?

If you don't think that Kobe threatening to sign with the Clippers had EVERYTHING to do with Shaq (and Phil to a lesser extent) being gone, then you're delusional. Was it a coincidence that he signed back with the Lakers only AFTER Shaq was traded? I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that Kobe went to Mitch and demanded that Shaq be traded or he wouldn't sign, but I can tell you that Mitch and Jerry Buss were very smart men, and the fact that Kobe was "on the verge" of signing with the Bulls and/or Clippers absolutely influenced their decision to take the Kobe train over the Shaq train. I can't make you believe this, but I'm fairly educated, and I have a great deal of common sense. I can put pieces together, and I don't need iron clad proof to show me the truth- I can bridge the gaps!

As far as not believing anything unless you have a source, well, I've given you quotes from his coaches, Richboy provided a nice article, and I even gave you statements from Kobe himself! Yet, you don't even accept that. And you accuse ME of choosing to hear what I want? How can one be taken seriously if the person won't even accept statements from the mouth of the subject being discussed??

Shaq absolutely ASKED for a trade. Yet, it was ultimately the Lakers' decision on whether or not to do it. They weren't bound to trade him, and he was under contract, so he couldn't walk away. They chose to trade him, and if you think that they didn't know Kobe was coming back at that point, then you believe that one of the most successful franchises willingly traded the most dominant center away with the chance that the best 2 guard in the league would leave the same year, a year after being in the finals. So if they didn't know Kobe was going to sign upon Shaq's departure, then the team stood to lose Shaq AND Kobe at the same time, and I'm pretty sure no GM in history would chance that. Believe what you like, but I saw the writing on the wall the same way Phil did.

For every writer you say is biased against Kobe, I'd say that there are 10 that are biased for him. So who's right and who's wrong? You admonish my citing a writer because you say he hates Kobe, and you dismiss what he says. However, I quote Kobe himself, and you dismiss it by saying it meant something different. I believe you have a problem seeing fault in Kobe.

Sure, each person involved could have handled it better. But the bottom line is that Kobe threw a tantrum which ultimately broke up a team that went to 4 finals in 5 years and won 3. Choose to believe what you like. Even if it's because "everybody else did it, so it must be okay!"

[Elden Payton]

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

So presuming to know what a stranger is thinking is creepy and pathetic, but presuming to know how tough a stranger may or may not be based solely on the surroundings he grew up in isn't?

Yeah, that's balanced.

Dwight Howard is a freaking monster, Kobe has been embarrassed in every physical altercation he has had in his NBA career against such behemoth's such as Chris Childs, Doug Christie and Reggie Miller.

Kobe can act as tough as he wants but he only starts mouthing whilst standing behind his team mates!

Dwight elbowed Kobe in the mouth and beat down the Lakers by 25...

Kobe sure showed him!

[Joker]

Kobe was there recruiting Dwight in Dwight's free agency period, no? I know Kobe was at least one meeting along with Nash. That kind of kills Kobe's trashtalk.

[Star-Lord]

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

So presuming to know what a stranger is thinking is creepy and pathetic, but presuming to know how tough a stranger may or may not be based solely on the surroundings he grew up in isn't?

Yeah, that's balanced.

Dwight Howard is a freaking monster, Kobe has been embarrassed in every physical altercation he has had in his NBA career against such behemoth's such as Chris Childs, Doug Christie and Reggie Miller.

Kobe can act as tough as he wants but he only starts mouthing whilst standing behind his team mates!

Dwight elbowed Kobe in the mouth and beat down the Lakers by 25...

Kobe sure showed him!

UFC seems to be more your speed.

[TheKingofSting]

It is real brave to say it from across the court and I am not sure how smart it is anyway to do it when your team is getting their brains beat in.

[Elden Payton]

So presuming to know what a stranger is thinking is creepy and pathetic, but presuming to know how tough a stranger may or may not be based solely on the surroundings he grew up in isn't?

Yeah, that's balanced.

Dwight Howard is a freaking monster, Kobe has been embarrassed in every physical altercation he has had in his NBA career against such behemoth's such as Chris Childs, Doug Christie and Reggie Miller.

Kobe can act as tough as he wants but he only starts mouthing whilst standing behind his team mates!

Dwight elbowed Kobe in the mouth and beat down the Lakers by 25...

Kobe sure showed him!

UFC seems to be more your speed.

What a comeback!

No matter how much Kobe/Laker fans try to act and say that Kobe has a warrior mentality, he's hard etc are just ignoring the fact that Kobe has proven himself to be pretty soft in physical altercations.

But by all means he can mean mug the 7 foot, 280+ pound, freak athlete and claim he's soft and a teddy bear etc as if he could do anything.

Boozer's face is full of surprise that Kobe was mouthing Dwight while hiding behind him.

What an absolute warrior.

[richboy]

No this is the reason why Kobe will be losing a lot of games to finish his career. That is going to be your pitch to free agents. In essence we are the Lakers so bow down to us?

This is the biggest reality that Kobe and the Lakers don't get. Dr. Buss is not there. Shaq is not there. Phil Jackson is not there. Jerry West is not there. Kobe is the only thing that ties them to any kind of winning. Guess what. People think that those others had a lot more to do with the winning than Kobe. In Kobe's world he is Michael Jordan. He is Lebron James. In his world he thinks he can elevate teams to win titles. This is the straight reality. Dwight would have played with Lebron, MJ in a second. He tried to play with Chris Paul in Orlando and when he was a free agent. This might go over the head of many Laker fans but in the mind Dwight if Phil Jackson is not coaching the Lakers Kobe is not good enough. He especially now is a inefficient high volume no defense jump shooter.

Lol, WHAT? You think Dwight would play with Michael Jordan but can't play with Kobe? The same player who punched Will Purdue and goaded Bill Cartwright relentlessly is less uh....."mean" I guess I'll say than Lebron? The same GM who called Kwame Brown a less than desirable name would somehow have gotten him to stay with his attitude? Are you sure you don't want to think this?

In reference to Lebron, I don't know what Lebron would be like a thirty-five after an Achilles injury but you're right in him probably being able to keep Dwight. Lebron's been used to the pampering the Dwight needs. No knock on either of them but that's apparently what they need and that's that.

I could see Dwight playing with CP3 because while he doesn't seem to need the pampering that Lebron and Dwight need, he's enjoyed just about the same level of success of Dwight (Dwight has made it to the Finals while CP3 hasn't made it to the Conference Finals) they both can relate on trying to get the the ultimate prize.

As far as being inefficient, Kobe will more than likely shoot over forty-five percent (Which he's done two third of his career), which is good for a guard. Not sure where the inefficient part comes in.

In what ways did Kobe NOT elevate his teams to win? He has five championships? Why would he want to Lebron in this case? He has three more championships. Just what are you REALLY trying to say here?

These threads are hilarious.

Kobe has been embarrassed in every single altercation he has ever had in the NBA.

The guy grew up in the suburbs in the affluent suburb of Lower Merion in PA. and in Italy where his father was a pampered professional athlete and he acts like he's so tough out on the court while hiding behind his team mates.

Dwight Howard would snap Kobe into little pieces.

Also all the Laker fans talking about Kobe thinks this and Kobe thinks that etc, as if they know him...

It's getting slightly creepy and pathetic.

Wait, so you're blasting people for acting as they know Kobe and yet....you're acting as if you know Kobe? Alright.

Would Kobe be saying these kinds of things if the Lakers were contenders and had any chance of winning? Would he be saying this if it wasn't his farewell last contract? Lakers are terrible even the biggest Laker/Kobe homers (steven a smith etc) will admit this. They suck, Kobe is irrelevant right now. So he lets it all out to create some drama for him to be in the news. Pathetic.

Hopefully Dwight just ignores this baiting. Everyone has moved on but Jeannie Buss and Kobe. Let's talk about the real contenders in the league. This is worst than bathroom gossiping with teenage girls.

Following Kobe for his entire career......yes he would have. And yes the Lakers suck but I wouldn't say Kobe is irrelevant.

This is not about player personality. Let me remind the whole world use to talk about how Scottie Pippen was soft. Didn't like Physical play. He MJ played with him just fine. Dwight Howard is a beast and outside of smiling I not really sure what the big complaint regarding him. He plays hard. He plays hurt. He plays physical.

Still this isn't about putting personalities together. He would have played with Michael Jordan and Lebron James because they elevate the game of the players around them. If Kobe Bryant does not have a great big man his teams will suck. If he does have a big man but doesn't have Phil Jackson he will ignore the big man and the team will underachieve.

Kobe is the greatest tough shot maker in league history. I've said this before I have never seen a player practice ridiculous shots as much as Kobe. Then pull them out during games. The problem is making tough shots does not make your teammates better. This is an average Kobe possession. Dribble dribble dribble on the perimeter. Setting up the defender for a shot. Take a shot that is a bad shot for 90% of the league. He makes it and fans go crazy. Problem is his teammates can't do nothing with that. You can't play off that.

That why having Shaq and Gasol became a big deal. I've say this all the time. It isn't about what you score. It is how you score. Defenses are built to stop scoring in the paint. In the low block. Dribble penetration. Kobe can provide some dribble penetration but he isn't Derrick Rose or Lebron or Westbrook. You need someone that will attack the heart of the defense. Kobe is not Michael Jordan or Lebron James because he not a dominate physical talent. He beats you will skill but with shots that your willing to give up.



When you have a great team around him he can be a big part getting over the hump.I've been saying for years that the Lakers would struggle after Phil because they don't understand why they win games. They so quickly forgot what life was like before Pau Gasol. In Laker nation Kobe was the reason Pau was good. He was the reason Odom was good. So they gave away Odom. Acted like Pau was just there for the ride. Kobe doesn't make anyone better. He tries to incorporate a one on one game into a team concept.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F7LmP5IHa0][/youtube]

Those type of shots will not make your teammates better. Dwight would have played with Kobe if Phil Jackson was there. This is exactly the difference between the Lakers with Phil and without Phil. With Phil it is we going to execute the offense and Kobe you figure out where your game fits in. Without Phil you guys figure out on your on where offensive execution fits to what I'm doing.

My point is that Kobe without Phil is not good enough to do much. He will not play the type of team basketball that will let his teammates flourish. He played with Howard, Gasol, and Nash but couldn't find a way to play with them. Dwight Howard knew the Lakers don't have anyone in the organization to check Kobe. I'm not going to blame the first 2 losses on Kobe. However his teammates are the regular whipping boys for the fans and media. Right now Kobe would be taking 27 shots per 36 minutes on 40% shooting and a 40 usage. Nobody is going to do anything on the Lakers if that continues. Maybe they wouldn't anyway but if Kobe wants to have any kind of season it can't do what he he done these first 2 games.

[WOX_69]

Look, I'm about to have some more fun.

WOX- I think it is you that hears what you want to hear. In the conversation with Phil, Kobe said that Shaq's existence as a Laker would definitely affect him re-signing with the team.

Ok, so maybe the word "affect" means something different to you, but I take the word to mean something of the sort "To change or have an impact upon". So when Phil asked Kobe if Shaq being there had an affect on his decision and he said "Yes" I think it's fair to say that Kobe's decision would be affected on him either re-signing or signing somewhere else. That's literally what it is. It can go either way but Shaq being there would impress upon that decision.

And the "tired of being a sidekick" line was the icing on the cake. So basically, he's saying that if Shaq's there in 05, I'm not, and it's because I'm tired of being 2nd fiddle.

You're, again, under the impression that someone can't play with someone without being second fiddle. Maybe it's impossible to YOU that there could be a world were that's possible but in reality it's totally possible for someone to share an equal load with someone or overtake them for the first option on a team. So yes, it was POSSIBLE for Kobe to be on the team with Shaq with him being equal in measure or as the primary option.

I don't know what you think all of that meant. But it's pretty clear to me. So you're the one choosing to read it differently. He flat out says, and it's quoting Kobe himself, that Shaq being back would affect his decision because he was tired of being a sidekick. Not sure what you think it meant, but I'm pretty confident with my assessment.

If that were the case, Kobe, being the straight shooter he's been would have said "I'm not coming back if Shaq's here.", which is direct, to the point and would speak to what you're saying. Instead, he said he was tired of being a sidekick. It's totally possible for him to be on a team with Shaq without being a sidekick.

The majority of your arguments seem to be "well, he did it, so that doesn't make it wrong". Need I use the "if Paul Pierce jumped off of a bridge" defense??

I never said if it was wrong or right. I'm asking you what your point is in bringing up as if Kobe's the only person to do these things. He quite clearly isn't but you make it seem as if Kobe's just totally the only person to do these things.

He's never feuded with coaches? Need I mention Phil saying he wouldn't return if Kobe was there because he's uncoachable? Need I mention that Phil was pretty much demanding Kobe be shipped to Phoenix for JKidd and Shawn Marion? This is coming from a coach that tamed Dennis Rodman!!! Sure, he came back. But I'd coach Bin Laden for the money they paid PJax!!

I never said he didn't feud with Phil. You said he's feuded with COACHES, I went to name all the coaches he had, which he in turn never feuded with. And you keep on harping upon Phil calling him uncoachable in 2004 but just ignore that things have moved on since 2004. He's gone on record to say “I love Kobe Bryant. I consider him like my son,” in 2013, "He's become a giver rather than just a guy that's a demanding leader, and that's been great for him and great to watch." in 2009, "The Kobe incident triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him. … It distorted my view of Kobe throughout the 2003-04 season. No matter what I did to extinguish it, the anger kept smoldering in the background.” in 2011 in regards to his relationship with Kobe in 2004, "No question, losing Kobe would be a blow to the organization and to me personally." in regards to Kobe's trade remand in 2007, "This was our moment of triumph, a moment of total reconciliation that had been seven years long in coming,” Jackson said. “The look of pride and joy in Kobe’s eyes made all the pain we’d endured in our journey together worth it.” in 2009 when the won the championship, I mean I could go on and on and on. You keep harping on one sentence made in 2004 when I can come up with dozens of others in the decade since. You need to let it go.

So he only feuded with 3 players. I guess punching a guy in the face on a bus (Samaki Walker) isn't considered a feud, huh?

Lol, if you want to consider that a feud, go ahead. Nothing came from it.

If you don't think that Kobe threatening to sign with the Clippers had EVERYTHING to do with Shaq (and Phil to a lesser extent) being gone, then you're delusional.

Considering that Lakers didn't know until that day disproves your point. If even just having a verbal commitment in place was set they would've traded Shaq long before the first day of free agency and had that squared away.

Was it a coincidence that he signed back with the Lakers only AFTER Shaq was traded?

It was the first day where free agents could sign, lol.

I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that Kobe went to Mitch and demanded that Shaq be traded or he wouldn't sign, but I can tell you that Mitch and Jerry Buss were very smart men, and the fact that Kobe was "on the verge" of signing with the Bulls and/or Clippers absolutely influenced their decision to take the Kobe train over the Shaq train.

Dr. Buss wasn't going to re-sign Shaq to the extension he wanted considering how the last year went may have been gone after that thus leaving them with the situation they were with then. Kobe with no Shaq. And of course you can't say with certainty it happened because you have not one iota of evidence from Kobe, Shaq, Mitch or Dr. Buss to show for that, lol. Like I said, Shaq demanded a trade and got what he wanted.

I can't make you believe this, but I'm fairly educated, and I have a great deal of common sense. I can put pieces together, and I don't need iron clad proof to show me the truth- I can bridge the gaps!

Lol, uh.....I guess I'll just take your word about you being "fairly educated" but for all your common sense, you seem to love to live in the past, see things where things aren't present, misquote, and pick and choose important aspects of prior events.

As far as not believing anything unless you have a source, well, I've given you quotes from his coaches, Richboy provided a nice article, and I even gave you statements from Kobe himself! Yet, you don't even accept that. And you accuse ME of choosing to hear what I want? How can one be taken seriously if the person won't even accept statements from the mouth of the subject being discussed??

I addressed richboy's post. The thing is, your "quotes" are often made up, misquoted, blown completely out of context or jumbled together. Everything I've mentioned can be sourced to an interview, an book or an article. The stuff you're "sourcing" often times cannot.

Shaq absolutely ASKED for a trade. Yet, it was ultimately the Lakers' decision on whether or not to do it. They weren't bound to trade him, and he was under contract, so he couldn't walk away.

Wait, so you make a distinction oh "asking" for Shaq but for Kobe's it demanding? Lol. Look at articles of the time, (Here, I'll link one for you http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-06-19/sports/0406190129_1_process-of-trading-o-neal-o-neal-and-bryant-lakers), heck since then Shaq's even mentioned in his book that he demanded a trade. He's gone on record saying it. Why are you trying to make a distinction for Shaq as opposed to Kobe? Lol.

Also, Kobe was under contract as well in 2007, they weren't bound to trade him, so what's your issue with him demanding a trade again?

They chose to trade him, and if you think that they didn't know Kobe was coming back at that point, then you believe that one of the most successful franchises willingly traded the most dominant center away with the chance that the best 2 guard in the league would leave the same year, a year after being in the finals.

Well you can look at it from multiple angles. Assistant coach Tex Winter was quoted as saying "[O’Neal] left because he couldn’t get what he wanted—a huge pay raise. There was no way ownership could give him what he wanted. Shaq’s demands held the franchise hostage, and the way he went about it didn’t please the owner too much.". Kobe's gone on record saying Buss told him he wasn't re-signing Shaq to the contract he wanted outside of whatever Kobe did.

Kobe in an SI article was quoted as saying "This is great!" upon hearing the news Shaq was traded. He didn't have to worry about playing sidekick if he was back. He also wasn't going to have Shaq around for him to be the sidekick or an equal.

So if they didn't know Kobe was going to sign upon Shaq's departure, then the team stood to lose Shaq AND Kobe at the same time, and I'm pretty sure no GM in history would chance that. Believe what you like, but I saw the writing on the wall the same way Phil did.

Lol, you must not know about Dr. Buss, the gambler. The Laker organization takes chances all the time. Usually successful, not lately however. That aside, it was actually Phil who started things off by saying at the All-Star break if Kobe returned he wouldn't be back (From the book "The Show: The Inside Story of the Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers in the Words of Those Who Lived It" in 2005"

For every writer you say is biased against Kobe, I'd say that there are 10 that are biased for him.

This is probably an exaggeration and I'm certain you probably couldn't name ten who are.

So who's right and who's wrong? You admonish my citing a writer because you say he hates Kobe, and you dismiss what he says. However, I quote Kobe himself, and you dismiss it by saying it meant something different. I believe you have a problem seeing fault in Kobe.

What have you quoted from Kobe directly? And again, a lot of what you quote is either misquoted, you look far too into or are flat out aren't real.

Sure, each person involved could have handled it better. But the bottom line is that Kobe threw a tantrum which ultimately broke up a team that went to 4 finals in 5 years and won 3. Choose to believe what you like. Even if it's because "everybody else did it, so it must be okay!"

So Shaq didn't "throw a tantrum" as well? The bottom line is everyone involved was petty and immature. Everyone should have come to together for the betterment of the team. Unfortunately they didn't and things ended the way they did.