Nerlens Noel's Rapid Growth and Defensive Impact

E-Balla · Post #61 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:39 am

eagereyez wrote:Why doesn't Philly just play Noel at C and Embiid at PF? I'm really pessimistic about Noel's improvement on offense. It wouldn't be the first time a team has had their tallest player at PF.

They've already said their plan is to make Embiid the PF on offense and the C on defense and vice-versa for Noel. There's a reason Embiid is shooting threes during warmups.

wowski · Post #62 » by **wowski** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:45 am

Liked Nerlens' D since summer league. I hope he really pans out

Hedda Gambler · Post #63 » by **Hedda Gambler** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:12 am

Utah-fan here who has been impressed with Noel`s emerging presence this year. I hope he manages to fulfill his potential and that we get some great Noel/Gobert/Len/Cousins etc... rivalries in the years to come.

hookshot199 · Post #64 » by **hookshot199** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:31 am

76ciology wrote:The key with Noel's offense is to have a more consistent jumpshot and being stronger to be able to improve his ability to finish using his ambidexterity.

His defense has been stellar. With an Embiid playing alongside him, there's a smaller consequence whenever fronting his man would fail with Embiid ready to help on help defense.

Several people on the board have likened Noel to a young KG or Kenyon Martin. I still believe his upside is Marcus Camby.

Camby, who played three years in college (Noel only one), averaged 9.5 points, 9.8 rebounds, 2.4 blocks, 1.0 steals and shot at .466. Factor out his final three years in a 17-year career and his ppg and rig average are probably around 10.5 and 11.0.

He learned to shoot a very ugly - but effective - set shot.

Noel, in his rookie year so far, is averaging 9.1 points, 7.8 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, 1.8 steals and shooting at .452. Not so far off Camby's career average, keeping in mind that Camby played three years in college. His coach at U-Mass, BTW: John Calipari.

If Noel can evolve into a Camby who was DPOY once and first and second team defensive team several times - fighting off injuries every several years - he will be a great pick.

If the Sixers luck out and Karl-Anthony Towns is available in the draft, they should get a king's ransom for the pick.

Nazrmohamed · Post #65 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:56 am

Mik317 wrote:The worry is offensively. Defensively **** will be epic..offensively it will recuire Embiid to play outside which takes away from some his best stuff tho.

Another big dude frontcourt is ZBo/Gasol..but that works because BOTH guys can hit a jumper consistantly. Another one was the Gasol/Bynum/Odom combos of a few years back...and again all 3 could hit that midrange..Odom could even stretch out to the 3.

it is crucial that Noel adds a consistent jumper to his game for it to really really work. Despite what Brown said with Embiid playing more of a 4 type game...I think Embiid's post game is more useful than having him try to be African Dirk.

but defensively Noel is a menace...until he has to play one on one against strong dudes..so having a guy next to him to do the dirty work while he patrols for steals and blocks will be awesome.

Well they both play in the worst team in sports right now so there's one benefit. They'll have plenty of time to perfect it without the outside world looking in. I think they'll become the most dominant interior duo in the nba....Unless my team gets Jordan and Towns lol

logical_art · Post #66 » by **logical_art** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:10 pm

Strange chart.

nicnac215 · Post #67 » by **nicnac215** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:46 pm

If Noel has grown a lot this season then he must be a legit 7fter now, because he measured just under 7 ft in shoes at the draft combine last year.

lordjeff05 · Post #68 » by **lordjeff05** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:53 pm

I still don't think Noel and Davis would have fit well together. Even as he plays better, he still can't deal with the big centers like Cousins and Lopez, and due to his frame he will likely never aquire the bulk needed to bang with those guys. AD needs a center with size that can protect him from getting beat up in the post. Nerlens was never going to be able to do that. The trade looks even worse right now because of Jrue's injury, but the fit was better then, and still is now.

Snotbubbles · Post #69 » by **Snotbubbles** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:26 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:I still don't think Noel and Davis would have fit well together. Even as he plays better, he still can't deal with the big centers like Cousins and Lopez, and due to his frame he will likely never aquire the bulk needed to bang with those guys. AD needs a center with size that can protect him from getting beat up in the post. Nerlens was never going to be able to do that. The trade looks even worse right now because of Jrue's injury, but the fit was better then, and still is now.

You could have drafted Noel and then with the 2014 pick drafted Nurkic (or Payton if you wanted a PG). If you take Nurkic, you save your 2015 pick that you used on Asik. Then you got Noel as a trade chip to move up in this draft if you want a PG like Russell or Mudiay.

Just take BPA and worry about fit later. Instead NO rushed the rebuild.

Post #70 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:43 pm

JaVale wrote:Who is playing 26 minutes per game with 0.0?

Thats always been how I described Spencer Hawes, although in this case I don't think it is him.

GallagherArt · Post #71 » by **GallagherArt** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:29 pm

Posted his defensive rankings per NBA ref yesterday.

GallagherArt wrote:In the NBA he's 3rd in Defensive Box Plus/Minus, t-5th in Defensive Win Shares, t-10th in Defensive Rating, and 7th in Opponent fg% at the rim.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MaxRappaport/status/577479458359271424[/tweet]

I hope that he can get to 2.0 blocks and steals (currently at 1.8 and 1.9), there's only been 4 players ever to average that in a season, not rookies, players, period.

76ciology · Post #72 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:42 pm

Definitely long ways to go. But he has shown great impact (DBPM) and numbers (STLS+BLK) despite rawness while his improvement in the middle of the season is amazing (sudden improvement in FT% and others on offense).

Unbreakable99 · Post #73 » by **Unbreakable99** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:04 pm

He's already one of the top defenders in the league. I think he should at least be in the top 6 this year as DPOY.

Hachmabash · Post #74 » by **Hachmabash** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:37 pm

Can Noel and Embiid remotely resemble Ben and Rasheed Wallace in the future? Both really good defenders, one of them otherworldy defender (Noel and Ben) who are absolutely terrible at offence, which is picked up by really talented offensive players like Rasheed and Embiid?
That sort of combination may be really fun to watch once again:)...God I want to watch Ben and Rasheed again.

King Ken · Post #75 » by **King Ken** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:50 pm

Most talented defensive player in the NBA. Camby is a clear understatement. Noel moves like a guard but defends like he's 7'2 and he hell on the PnR with LRBM on defense. Might be the most gifted defensive player I've seen.

CDansby · Post #76 » by **CDansby** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:14 pm

Looks like he's been balling lately. I think he can play next to Embiid. I think the more interesting aspect is when the 76ers are on the clock and the best player on the board is Okafor or Towns...

cksdayoff · Post #77 » by **cksdayoff** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:25 pm

giberish wrote:
Mik317 wrote:The worry is offensively. Defensively **** will be epic..offensively it will recuire Embiid to play outside which takes away from some his best stuff tho.

Another big dude frontcourt is ZBo/Gasol..but that works because BOTH guys can hit a jumper consistantly. Another one was the Gasol/Bynum/Odom combos of a few years back...and again all 3 could hit that midrange..Odom could even stretch out to the 3.

it is crucial that Noel adds a consistent jumper to his game for it to really really work. Despite what Brown said with Embiid playing more of a 4 type game...I think Embiid's post game is more useful than having him try to be African Dirk.

but defensively Noel is a menace...until he has to play one on one against strong dudes..so having a guy next to him to do the dirty work while he patrols for steals and blocks will be awesome.

Agreed. Right now Noel's offense is worse than his defense is good. The 1' range, only score at the rim game only works as a center. It's a massive liability as a PF. Noel needs to improve his offense to at least 'below-average, but tolerable given his defense'.

Noel has been expanding his range out to 15-18 feet. Whether he can hit that shot with consistency, we'll have to see, but take a look at his FT% before All-Star break and after. Noel has always been a 50% free throw shooter, but Brett Brown has been working with him on his jump shot and free throw shooting, his FT% is currently at 65%, I believe. That is a remarkable improvement for a big man who couldn't shoot free throws. He is no longer a liability at the FT line late in games. He's also getting really comfortable shooting the 15 footer.

lordjeff05 · Post #78 » by **lordjeff05** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:51 pm

Snotbubbles wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:I still don't think Noel and Davis would have fit well together. Even as he plays better, he still can't deal with the big centers like Cousins and Lopez, and due to his frame he will likely never aquire the bulk needed to bang with those guys. AD needs a center with size that can protect him from getting beat up in the post. Nerlens was never going to be able to do that. The trade looks even worse right now because of Jrue's injury, but the fit was better then, and still is now.

You could have drafted Noel and then with the 2014 pick drafted Nurkic (or Payton if you wanted a PG). If you take Nurkic, you save your 2015 pick that you used on Asik. Then you got Noel as a trade chip to move up in this draft if you want a PG like Russell or Mudiay.

Just take BPA and worry about fit later. Instead NO rushed the rebuild.

A team with Noel and Payton would have been terrible this year. Nurkic was never a likely top 10 pick, and Denver has lucked out in how good he has been so far. That team would have had Anderson and Lopez on it, so I'm not sure Noel would have gotten the playing time to develop as he has this year. As for Nurkic, so yeah, assuming that the Pels overdraft someone that then ends up becoming better than expected, sure we'd be in great shape. Now assuming we pick the likely picks of Noel and Payton and we suck again, but not enough to get a top five pick, then we are left with three picks at 10. None of them are good enough to be second banana, although the D on that team would be pretty great. So we'd be getting young prospects but without any real game plan, and we'd be looking at Davis's fourth year still without likely making the playoffs. I don't see how that is better than what we've done.

Not worrying about fit is how Minnesota drafted 3 point guards. Yeah BPA works great when it works, but it can bite you in the butt just like worrying about fit.

GallagherArt · Post #79 » by **GallagherArt** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:52 pm

Agreed that the other thread was unnecessary, however this thread deserves a bump. For PER watchers Noel is now up to 14.31.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CGallagher_Art/status/579307965619916800[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MaxRappaport/status/579309538391810050[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GFOSoul/status/579318028350955520[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/GFOSoul/status/579317813690642432[/tweet]

MotownMadness · Post #80 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:54 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:Looking back in hindsight...how awesome would NOLA be with a frontcourt of AD-Noel on defense?? Too bad they traded for Holiday.

They definitely F'd that one up.