What is wrong in OKC

[24istheLAW]

Highlights of Presti's last five years of draft picks:
2015, 14th Cameron Payne
2014, 21st Mitch McGary
2013, 12th Steven Adams
2013, 26th Andre Roberson
2012, 28th Perry Jones III
2011, 24th Reggie Jackson
That's pretty damn good if you ask me. A starting-quality PG at 24, a starting-caliber center at 12 (I can definitely of teams Adams would start on besides OKC), and three viable roation players in Payne, Roberson, and McGary (who is wasted in OKC).
Now, maybe they've done a poor job supplementing that group with veteran talent. But relative to the low slots they were picking at, that is a high batting average on draft picks.

[Hindenburg]

Highlights of Presti's last five years of draft picks:
2015, 14th Cameron Payne
2014, 21st Mitch McGary
2013, 12th Steven Adams
2013, 26th Andre Roberson
2012, 28th Perry Jones III
2011, 24th Reggie Jackson
That's pretty damn good if you ask me. A starting-quality PG at 24, a starting-caliber center at 12 (I can definitely of teams Adams would start on besides OKC), and three viable roation players in Payne, Roberson, and McGary (who is wasted in OKC).
Now, maybe they've done a poor job supplementing that group with veteran talent. But relative to the low slots they were picking at, that is a high batting average on draft picks.

meh not really that good of a drafting to be honest. He passed on a ton of talent. Just look at what Presti missed out on:

2011 - passed on Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas
2012 - passed on Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Will Barton
2013 -passed on Giannis, Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014 - passed on Nicola Jokic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarckson
2015 - passed on Bobby Portis

could you imagine

Westbrook
Butler
Giannis
Durant
Gobert

Insane defense + size and tons of scoring options on that starting 5

and off the bench:

some back up PG
Hood
Green
Ibaka
Portis

better than some starting 5s in the league

obviously hindsight is 20/20, but you can clearly see Presti could have done hell of a lot better

[Kabookalu]

Highlights of Presti's last five years of draft picks:
2015, 14th Cameron Payne
2014, 21st Mitch McGary
2013, 12th Steven Adams
2013, 26th Andre Roberson
2012, 28th Perry Jones III
2011, 24th Reggie Jackson
That's pretty damn good if you ask me. A starting-quality PG at 24, a starting-caliber center at 12 (I can definitely of teams Adams would start on besides OKC), and three viable roation players in Payne, Roberson, and McGary (who is wasted in OKC).
Now, maybe they've done a poor job supplementing that group with veteran talent. But relative to the low slots they were picking at, that is a high batting average on draft picks.

meh not really that good of a drafting to be honest. He passed on a ton of talent. Just look at what Presti missed out on:

2011 - passed on Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas
2012 - passed on Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Will Barton
2013 -passed on Giannis, Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014 - passed on Nicola Jokic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarckson
2015 - passed on Bobby Portis

could you imagine

Westbrook
Butler
Giannis
Durant
Gobert

Insane defense + size and tons of scoring options on that starting 5

and off the bench:

some back up PG
Hood
Green
Ibaka
Portis

better than some starting 5s in the league

obviously hindsight is 20/20, but you can clearly see Presti could have done hell of a lot better

I don't really like that argument, because being a good drafter and a bad one isn't because you didn't select the best possible option that later turned out to be an all star. Yes there were players that turned out better than the ones they originally selected, but the ones they originally selected are better than the ones that everyone else around them got too. There's a lot of hindsight going on around here. It's harder to discern between the good and bad prospects later in the draft, and Presti did a good job of salvaging good to decent players with almost all of his picks.

[heatwillbeback]

Their defense has regressed to the point where they will simply be outscored by elite teams no matter what Durant and Westbook do.

[DarkAzcura]

Highlights of Presti's last five years of draft picks:
2015, 14th Cameron Payne
2014, 21st Mitch McGary
2013, 12th Steven Adams
2013, 26th Andre Roberson
2012, 28th Perry Jones III
2011, 24th Reggie Jackson
That's pretty damn good if you ask me. A starting-quality PG at 24, a starting-caliber center at 12 (I can definitely of teams Adams would start on besides OKC), and three viable roation players in Payne, Roberson, and McGary (who is wasted in OKC).
Now, maybe they've done a poor job supplementing that group with veteran talent. But relative to the low slots they were picking at, that is a high batting average on draft picks.

meh not really that good of a drafting to be honest. He passed on a ton of talent. Just look at what Presti missed out on:

2011 - passed on Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas
2012 - passed on Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Will Barton
2013 -passed on Giannis, Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014 - passed on Nicola Jokic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarckson
2015 - passed on Bobby Portis

could you imagine

Westbrook
Butler
Giannis
Durant
Gobert

Insane defense + size and tons of scoring options on that starting 5

and off the bench:

some back up PG
Hood
Green
Ibaka
Portis

better than some starting 5s in the league

obviously hindsight is 20/20, but you can clearly see Presti could have done hell of a lot better

With this line of thinking, every GM in the NBA is a terrible drafter.

[RichieW]

I think it stems from Westbook being given free reign too soon in his careers under Brooks. Westbrook has formed so many bad habits it's absurd, typified by his steal attempt on Aldridge against the Spurs which gave Danny Green a wide open 3. That's the kind of play that young players get benched for making so they stop doing it by the time they are in their 8th year. Now he's a star and one of the main driving forces of a team looking to win it's almost too late to do anything when he makes terrible decisions, just gotta let Russell be Russell.

[lambchop]

Highlights of Presti's last five years of draft picks:
2015, 14th Cameron Payne
2014, 21st Mitch McGary
2013, 12th Steven Adams
2013, 26th Andre Roberson
2012, 28th Perry Jones III
2011, 24th Reggie Jackson
That's pretty damn good if you ask me. A starting-quality PG at 24, a starting-caliber center at 12 (I can definitely of teams Adams would start on besides OKC), and three viable roation players in Payne, Roberson, and McGary (who is wasted in OKC).
Now, maybe they've done a poor job supplementing that group with veteran talent. But relative to the low slots they were picking at, that is a high batting average on draft picks.

meh not really that good of a drafting to be honest. He passed on a ton of talent. Just look at what Presti missed out on:

2011 - passed on Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas
2012 - passed on Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Will Barton
2013 -passed on Giannis, Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014 - passed on Nicola Jokic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarckson
2015 - passed on Bobby Portis

could you imagine

Westbrook
Butler
Giannis
Durant
Gobert

Insane defense + size and tons of scoring options on that starting 5

and off the bench:

some back up PG
Hood
Green
Ibaka
Portis

better than some starting 5s in the league

obviously hindsight is 20/20, but you can clearly see Presti could have done hell of a lot better

With this line of thinking, every GM in the NBA is a terrible drafter.

yea okc passed on 2nd round draft picks. In hindsight guys like thomas, green, butler or giannis were top 5 picks or even worthy of being the 1st pick. You can't hold that against okc. By that standard even the spurs are bad at drafting

[Blame Rasho]

If both GS and SA weren't playing at historically great level, the Thunder would be considered the creme of the crop.

There really only so much that can be dissected.

[senel]

OKC is overrated. Easy answer.

[bondom34]

If both GS and SA weren't playing at historically great level, the Thunder would be considered the creme of the crop.

There really only so much that can be dissected.

This is really a big part too.

2 plus 10 SRS teams make the league look silly.

OKC is overrated. Easy answer.

This is actually really funny.

[bondom34]

I think it stems from Westbook being given free reign too soon in his careers under Brooks. Westbrook has formed so many bad habits it's absurd, typified by his steal attempt on Aldridge against the Spurs which gave Danny Green a wide open 3. That's the kind of play that young players get benched for making so they stop doing it by the time they are in their 8th year. Now he's a star and one of the main driving forces of a team looking to win it's almost too late to do anything when he makes terrible decisions, just gotta let Russell be Russell.

I agree somewhat here too, but the same applies to Durant, both of them have shown the same tendencies.

[Jadoogar]

Presti has no real wing players since Harden left. That void has to be filled out, until then, they have a bench problem. I like Morrow, Payne, McGary, Collison (through all his limitations), and Kanter (through all his defensive limitations), but they have no other wing player that can take over a game if its mostly Westbrook and Durant going 1v1 down the stretch. That gets you nowhere in this modern NBA.

How dare you mock the great Dion Waiters?!?!

[Phish Tank]

The offense is a part of the problem, but for slightly different reasons. Their main issue is discipline. The thunder are like the pre-Phil Jackson Lakers, the Drexler Blazers, the 90s Knicks to an extent, and a whole bunch of various teams that would lose their composure during crunch time and lose games. Composure, however, can mean multiple things. For the thunder, it's not technical fouls, but rather two deeper issues:

1). Too many turnovers: They're in the bottom 5 in this category. No elite team even comes close to that amount... They're all in the lower echelon in turnovers. As long as Durant and Westbrook commit 8+ turnovers a game, they won't go far in the playoffs ever.

2) deviation from offense: they go isolation way too often in the fourth quarters. They need to focus on the game plan... It's something Phil was able to communicate to Kobe and Shaq. Not coincidentally, Derek Fisher tried to help them out here in OKC.

Now there are a few other important issues as well:

1). Over reliance on Durant and Westbrook to create and score at the same time. They're not able to get clutch performances from their role players. It's hard for them to do everything at once.

2) too many one dimensional players on the bench: Outside of Payne, they have some key holes on the bench. Waiters is a liability. Kanter can't defend a lick. Morrow can't defend either. It's a problem


Sent from the phish tank

[KL78192020]

I just feel like Sam Presti is incredibly overrated. Yes he had a good start in drafting Durant, Westbrook and Harden. But honestly, drafting Durant and Harden were no brainers because they were the best players available when OKC picked.

But that roster that Presti has put together is just terrible. Other than Durant, they have zero shooters on the roster. Their next best shooter is Serge freaking Ibaka for crying out loud.

OKC has arguably the worst spacing in NBA history. Every time I watch one of their games, I feel bad for KD because it's too easy to double/triple him because there's no one to make them pay by hitting the 3.

They also drafted Ibaka, Jackson, and Adams isn't bad either. Presti might not be the best, but the cheap ass owner is to blame more.

[OptionZero]

I put most of the blame on Sam Presti. The roster is built and coached and plays like its the '90s. All the depth is in the front court at the 4/5, where Collison, Adams, Kanter, McGary, Ibaka, and Durant should see varying amounts of minutes. No one deserves major minutes at the 2/3, which are skill positions the league demands now.

The late-game struggles are systematic and simply won't be fixed. It is both too late in-season for any change to stick, and too late "career" wise. I really think Westbrook/Durant have lots of bad habits that have festered (or at least, lingered without being addressed) for too long. It's not JUST Donovan, Brooks let **** slide too.

This is where dividing up blame is hard. Donovan/Brooks should have instilled a more diverse offense and managed the rotation to favor minutes for more skilled players on the wing, but Presti has provided a roster full of one-dimensional dudes that don't really deserve to play big minutes and can't facilitate more movement. It's neither a chicken nor an egg, it is two turds.

Westbrook has immense talent, but he plays with reckless abandon that saps his energy and also leads to stupid decision making, like what we saw against MIN (Rubio game winnder), SAS (Danny Green 3 that sparked the finishing run), and GSW.

When he catches the ball after moving, he stops. Surveys, dribbles, and then makes a move. He may even get an assist, but the ball still stops. Over the long run, that is bad for your offense, and we see that. He's a poor outside shooter, but his shot selection doesn't recognize that. He dribbles too much when he has it outside, he doesn't set screens with conviction, he doesn't cut off ball with conviction.

On defense, Westbrook is killing his teammates. They don't know what he's going to do - gamble for a steal, gamble for a block, who knows. Defense is communication, and he free lances. How can anyone get into good habits on D? Call out a screen, but Westrbrook is already running at another dude. He sure as hell isn't helping anyone else

Durant has alot of these problems too, but he can shoot the rock from 3, which covers up all of these things. Thats why I think you can stick him in a GSW system and see a new player. His total PPG would sink, but his efficiency would skyrocket immensely and more importantly, his team offense would be unstoppable. I bet my life that Kerr could get his ass to cut and pass and set screens. Forget a Curry/Durant pick and roll, imagine Draymond at the elbow with the bball, and Curry/Klay/Durant sprinting into split cuts. They'd be shooting wide open 3's or layups every possession.

So basically, OKC is screwed. Too late in the system to upgrade the roster, too late into the relationship to change the habits needed to win at a championship level.

GSW/SAS doesn't even really need play calling, because Kerr and Pop have hammered into all the players the scheme they want to do and the actions they want to run. All the reads and cuts and passes and shots are stuff they've done since the beginning, and basically the LESS they think they more they succeed. GSW especially stumbles when they get too fancy, when they just make simple passes their talent and system is ready enough to kill everyone. And when they need to, just throw out the death lineup

[Revived]

I just feel like Sam Presti is incredibly overrated. Yes he had a good start in drafting Durant, Westbrook and Harden. But honestly, drafting Durant and Harden were no brainers because they were the best players available when OKC picked.

But that roster that Presti has put together is just terrible. Other than Durant, they have zero shooters on the roster. Their next best shooter is Serge freaking Ibaka for crying out loud.

OKC has arguably the worst spacing in NBA history. Every time I watch one of their games, I feel bad for KD because it's too easy to double/triple him because there's no one to make them pay by hitting the 3.

They have like 4 shooters better than Serge. The problem is the coach doesn't play 2 of them. Morrow, Payne, and Waiters (yeah even him) have shot the 3 better this year. They're actually middle of the pack in 3 point shooting. The offense isn't the problem most of the game. The defense is more so.

Morrow's 3pt game has slipped and he's such a turnstile defensively. Waiters is pretty much garbage, I don't count him for anything. I like Payne but he doesn't get any time. I'm guessing he's terrible in practice.

OKC does a fine job shooting the ball against most teams but against the top teams in the league, I just feel like their awful. They need Roberson/Westbrook to shoot better. For a guy with such a great work ethic, its amazing to me that Westbrook doesn't work at all on improving his 3pt game. Defense is an issue too.

[bondom34]

I just feel like Sam Presti is incredibly overrated. Yes he had a good start in drafting Durant, Westbrook and Harden. But honestly, drafting Durant and Harden were no brainers because they were the best players available when OKC picked.

But that roster that Presti has put together is just terrible. Other than Durant, they have zero shooters on the roster. Their next best shooter is Serge freaking Ibaka for crying out loud.

OKC has arguably the worst spacing in NBA history. Every time I watch one of their games, I feel bad for KD because it's too easy to double/triple him because there's no one to make them pay by hitting the 3.

They have like 4 shooters better than Serge. The problem is the coach doesn't play 2 of them. Morrow, Payne, and Waiters (yeah even him) have shot the 3 better this year. They're actually middle of the pack in 3 point shooting. The offense isn't the problem most of the game. The defense is more so.

Morrow's 3pt game has slipped and he's such a turnstile defensively. Waiters is pretty much garbage, I don't count him for anything. I like Payne but he doesn't get any time. I'm guessing he's terrible in practice.

OKC does a fine job shooting the ball against most teams but against the top teams in the league, I just feel like their awful. They need Roberson/Westbrook to shoot better. For a guy with such a great work ethic, its amazing to me that Westbrook doesn't work at all on improving his 3pt game. Defense is an issue too.

I think he's worked on it, some guys just aren't shooters. They have the personnel, the coach doesn't play them. And defense is an issue too, which is another massive annoyance that Waiters and Kanter play over Roberson, Payne, and Adams late.

[vxmike]

Coaching, most problems stem from that.

Yup, Donovan has done NOTHING with that team. Brooks did a better job. Yet another example of why big name college coaches are almost always a failure in the NBA.

He insists on starting Roberson who makes them play 4 on 5 offensively. The team needs shooting to space the floor for KD and Westbrook drives plus PNR with Adams and Ibaka. Morrow is the obvious 5th starter -- why start Roberson when none of the other four starters are individual defensive liabilities?

[vxmike]

I also dont understand why they traded away dj augustin. The guy can play. A good coach would have found a way to play him at pg alongside westbrook at sg. Which would have meant less minutes for waiters and more production.

Waiters isn't even worthy of NBA minutes in my opinion. Should have dumped this guy instead of Augustine.

Waiters and Roberson are both zeros out there. Morrow can shoot lights out and this skill is universally recognized as critical in the NBA today...why does he not play?

[Revived]

They have like 4 shooters better than Serge. The problem is the coach doesn't play 2 of them. Morrow, Payne, and Waiters (yeah even him) have shot the 3 better this year. They're actually middle of the pack in 3 point shooting. The offense isn't the problem most of the game. The defense is more so.

Morrow's 3pt game has slipped and he's such a turnstile defensively. Waiters is pretty much garbage, I don't count him for anything. I like Payne but he doesn't get any time. I'm guessing he's terrible in practice.

OKC does a fine job shooting the ball against most teams but against the top teams in the league, I just feel like their awful. They need Roberson/Westbrook to shoot better. For a guy with such a great work ethic, its amazing to me that Westbrook doesn't work at all on improving his 3pt game. Defense is an issue too.

I think he's worked on it, some guys just aren't shooters. They have the personnel, the coach doesn't play them. And defense is an issue too, which is another massive annoyance that Waiters and Kanter play over Roberson, Payne, and Adams late.

I think they play Kanter because he makes so much money that they don't wanna say that they don't use their $110 million something player late in games. As for Waiters, I'm guessing their afraid it will piss him off if they don't play him a lot in a contract year for him. I don't agree with either one, but just my guess.