Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter

[Fresh360Waves]

I always had the feeling he knew what he was doing. It just wasn't "conventional."

tanking is like masturbation

we know everyone does it from time to time, you're just meant to be ashamed of it

That's a great analogy.

[E-Balla]

If the sixers get the lakers pick at #4, Would you trade Okafor and the #4 pick to boston for #1 Fultz?

Hell no I don't even think Fultz deserves to go top 3. Even if you do have him in the top spot there's no way you think he's so much better than Smith, Ball, and Jackson that you'd trade someone to move up.

[Martensitic]

This thread is hilarious. Philly has been rebuilding for 4 years and they're still far from being good in any way, shape, or form. Maybe their assets turn into something but its far from a foregone conclusion and taking advantage of Sacramento ain't hard.

I can definitely say Hinkie wasn't the guy to build a team. Its not hard to lose games, have a spotty draft record (the 2nd best pick he's made so far looks like Willy and he sent him to NY), and win obvious trades. Its hard to build a team that can compete.

Why all this bashing for being bad for five years, when for example your team has been bad for just one less year?

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

[shawn_hemp]

If the sixers get the lakers pick at #4, Would you trade Okafor and the #4 pick to boston for #1 Fultz?

Hell no I don't even think Fultz deserves to go top 3. Even if you do have him in the top spot there's no way you think he's so much better than Smith, Ball, and Jackson that you'd trade someone to move up.

we wouldn't be trading "someone"

We'd be trading a guy who does not fit in our team. Whether you like his game or not. There's only so many minutes to be had

You don't pay a guy almost 5M a year to do absolutely nothing for the rest of his tenure on your team

[E-Balla]

If the sixers get the lakers pick at #4, Would you trade Okafor and the #4 pick to boston for #1 Fultz?

Hell no I don't even think Fultz deserves to go top 3. Even if you do have him in the top spot there's no way you think he's so much better than Smith, Ball, and Jackson that you'd trade someone to move up.

we wouldn't be trading "someone"

We'd be trading a guy who does not fit in our team. Whether you like his game or not. There's only so many minutes to be had

You don't pay a guy almost 5M a year to do absolutely nothing for the rest of his tenure on your team

You would trade him for a slight upgrade (if its even that) in prospects? Fultz fits best with Simmons but I think that's short sighted. If Jahlil isn't traded by draft time you might as well stick with him instead of essentially wasting it.

[E-Balla]

Why all this bashing for being bad for five years, when for example your team has been bad for just one less year?

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

Opportunity cost. What could your assets be if Hinkie wasn't there or if someone else with an eye for talent ran the tank? Hinkie is supposed to be from the school of Morey and Presti but Morey and Presti are good because they know talent when they see it. Hinkie did nothing that made me think he evaluated talent any more than all these other GMs so really the one thing he did well was trade (which isn't that hard if you value picks).

[fa2011]

After seeing this pic, I felt like I should Google him. He looks quite a bit older than the 39 Wiki is suggesting lol. I hope that was a pic of him near the end of his time in Philly.

Fitting, considering the subject, but to take a stroll down memory lane, Hinkie's resignation letter if you haven't read. Quite the long read; I believe 13 pages: https://genius.com/Sam-hinkie-philadelphia-76ers-resignation-letter-annotated

[sixerswillrule]

I always had the feeling he knew what he was doing. It just wasn't "conventional."

tanking is like masturbation

we know everyone does it from time to time, you're just meant to be ashamed of it

In that case Hinkie is the NBA's Hannibal Buress:

Watch on YouTube

[sixerswillrule]

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

A Lakers fan started this thread.

[seren]

You seem to be killing the one bad decision Hinkie made in hindsight and conveniently ignoring all the good decisions he made that were toss-ups at the time he made them.

You're Captain Hindsight, except only for one specific thing

Okafor wasn't the best pick

Is there any other point you have to make besides that?

You say he hasn't built anything

I've said multiple times it's because you can't look literally a season ahead. You are looking at the team right this second.

You're wrong. I'm not even a Hinkie fan boy, but you're just wrong bud.

Nope. I am criticising the lack of process. Okafor pick was important to show that Embiid pick was pure luck. As I said before, it showed that Hinkie does not believe in what he is doing. This interview right after the pick shows how disconnected Hinkie is from basketball.

Sixers' Hinkie not shy to advance rebuild in light of Joel Embiid's health http://es.pn/1HlN00d
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

You don't see players like Ja in today's era," Hinkie said. "They don't come along in a way where you're looking to feed them over and over and over. Where they've been commanding double-teams since they were 12 or 13 years old and been learning to deal with those."

Seriously? This is how you will build a team? By ignoring how basketball evolved over the last decade or so. Why not go ahead and hire

You seem to be killing the one bad decision Hinkie made in hindsight and conveniently ignoring all the good decisions he made that were toss-ups at the time he made them.

You're Captain Hindsight, except only for one specific thing

Okafor wasn't the best pick

Is there any other point you have to make besides that?

You say he hasn't built anything

I've said multiple times it's because you can't look literally a season ahead. You are looking at the team right this second.

You're wrong. I'm not even a Hinkie fan boy, but you're just wrong bud.

Nope. I am criticising the lack of process. Okafor pick was important to show that Embiid pick was pure luck. As I said before, it showed that Hinkie does not believe in what he is doing. This interview right after the Okafor pick shows how disconnected Hinkie is from basketball.

Sixers' Hinkie not shy to advance rebuild in light of Joel Embiid's health http://es.pn/1HlN00d
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

You don't see players like Ja in today's era," Hinkie said. "They don't come along in a way where you're looking to feed them over and over and over. Where they've been commanding double-teams since they were 12 or 13 years old and been learning to deal with those."

Seriously? This is how you will build a team? By ignoring how basketball evolved over the last 20 years? Why not go ahead and hire Byron Scott while you are at it?

Sent from my XT1575 using RealGM mobile app

[E-Balla]

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

A Lakers fan started this thread.

But you guys are the ones responding to me not Laker fans. If Phil hits on the draft and someone makes a thread about his ability to scout players I'll be the first one in there bashing him. Everything isn't a positive just because someone on your team did it.

[nitetrain8603]

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

Opportunity cost. What could your assets be if Hinkie wasn't there or if someone else with an eye for talent ran the tank? Hinkie is supposed to be from the school of Morey and Presti but Morey and Presti are good because they know talent when they see it. Hinkie did nothing that made me think he evaluated talent any more than all these other GMs so really the one thing he did well was trade (which isn't that hard if you value picks).

He did want Porzingis but was blocked IIRC.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using RealGM mobile app

[E-Balla]

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

Opportunity cost. What could your assets be if Hinkie wasn't there or if someone else with an eye for talent ran the tank? Hinkie is supposed to be from the school of Morey and Presti but Morey and Presti are good because they know talent when they see it. Hinkie did nothing that made me think he evaluated talent any more than all these other GMs so really the one thing he did well was trade (which isn't that hard if you value picks).

He did want Porzingis but was blocked IIRC.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using RealGM mobile app

I believe that as much as I believe Danny Ainge wanted Giannis. Reports like that never come out unless the player is great.

[Yoshun]

I think anyone makes the picks Hinkie did in the positions he was in. Face it, he did a decent job. It sucks to admit it because as fans we don't want to watch "tanking," but he did. He took over a franchise with no talent or assets and turned them into a team with talent and assets.

[Incipio]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.


Tanking for picks does NOT make a GM "good". Every single GM out there would tank for picks if their owner allowed it. But most owners forbid that, for business reasons. The only thing that made Sam Hinkie's situation unique is that his owner allowed it.

People who want to credit the 76ers for their tank job should thank that team's owner, not Hinkie. It doesn't take a genius to unload players and get a high lottery pick. It really doesn't.

Tanking, in itself, does not make a GM any good. Billy King would've tanked too, if Prokhorov allowed it. Donnie Nelson would've tanked, if Mark Cuban allowed it. Phil Jackson would've tanked many years, if Dolan allowed it. The only way to judge a GM is his ability to turn draft picks into good players. And Sam Hinkie hasn't proven he was capable of doing that consistently. He tanked so many years, and yet the 76ers are still languishing at the bottom of the standings. That's not a good thing.

Seriously, I don't see how blatantly tanking for years makes a GM good. Every GM knows tanking is the easiest way to rebuild but it defeats the competitive spirit especially when you're blatantly doing it year after year. It's equivalent to Durant going to the warriors to try to win a championship. They're taking the easy way out.

[Unbreakable99]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.


Tanking for picks does NOT make a GM "good". Every single GM out there would tank for picks if their owner allowed it. But most owners forbid that, for business reasons. The only thing that made Sam Hinkie's situation unique is that his owner allowed it.

People who want to credit the 76ers for their tank job should thank that team's owner, not Hinkie. It doesn't take a genius to unload players and get a high lottery pick. It really doesn't.

Tanking, in itself, does not make a GM any good. Billy King would've tanked too, if Prokhorov allowed it. Donnie Nelson would've tanked, if Mark Cuban allowed it. Phil Jackson would've tanked many years, if Dolan allowed it. The only way to judge a GM is his ability to turn draft picks into good players. And Sam Hinkie hasn't proven he was capable of doing that consistently. He tanked so many years, and yet the 76ers are still languishing at the bottom of the standings. That's not a good thing.

Seriously, I don't see how blatantly tanking for years makes a GM good. Every GM knows tanking is the easiest way to rebuild but it defeats the competitive spirit especially when you're blatantly doing it year after year. It's equivalent to Durant going to the warriors to try to win a championship. They're taking the easy way out.

Yeah because all Hinkie did was tank. He made no other moves as a GM

[Simmons25]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.


Tanking for picks does NOT make a GM "good". Every single GM out there would tank for picks if their owner allowed it. But most owners forbid that, for business reasons. The only thing that made Sam Hinkie's situation unique is that his owner allowed it.

People who want to credit the 76ers for their tank job should thank that team's owner, not Hinkie. It doesn't take a genius to unload players and get a high lottery pick. It really doesn't.

Tanking, in itself, does not make a GM any good. Billy King would've tanked too, if Prokhorov allowed it. Donnie Nelson would've tanked, if Mark Cuban allowed it. Phil Jackson would've tanked many years, if Dolan allowed it. The only way to judge a GM is his ability to turn draft picks into good players. And Sam Hinkie hasn't proven he was capable of doing that consistently. He tanked so many years, and yet the 76ers are still languishing at the bottom of the standings. That's not a good thing.

Seriously, I don't see how blatantly tanking for years makes a GM good. Every GM knows tanking is the easiest way to rebuild but it defeats the competitive spirit especially when you're blatantly doing it year after year. It's equivalent to Durant going to the warriors to try to win a championship. They're taking the easy way out.

For all the "tanking" the 76ers have done... they've still gotten just as much from trading:

2019 - (Top 3 pick?) - Traded from Sacramento for cap space
2018 - Unprotected 1st round pick from Lakers if 2017 top 3 draft pick is not realised.
2017 - (Potential top 4-6 pick if Lakers lottery ball drops outside the top 3)
2017 - (Potential top 5 pick if Sacramento bottom out and finish below Sixers)
2016 - #1 Simmons (Injured hasn't played a game yet)
2015 - #3 Okafor (Hasn't panned out... gets more DNP's than plays)
2015 - Nik Stauskas traded from Sacramento for cap space
2014 - #3 Embiid (Injured first 2 years)
2014 - #10 (Received from Pelicans for Jrue Holiday) - Traded down to pick 12 which became Dario Saric
2013 - Nerlens Noel (Received from Pelicans for Jrue Holiday)

So "tanking" might have gotten them decent draft picks in Embiid and Simmons but bad luck with injuries had just as much to do with... and both Milwaukee and Cleveland had a chance to get Embiid and chose not to. Okafor? meh can't win them all but he still may net us a late 1st rounder.

The genius though wasn't just in the tanking... but in the trades and in the draft picks. It's gotten us Noel and Stauskas so far... and an additional 2 x top 5 draft picks in the next 3 drafts if everything goes according to script.

What Hinkie did brilliantly is he took players regardless whether they were injured or not and not ready to play straight away or in Saric's case had a European contract to honour for a few years. The intention all along was to have the team come together in 2016/2017 and then some additional draft picks after that to use to get who you need to build a championship team. Absolutely brilliant.

[YogurtProducer]

Because I'm not starting threads on how great Phil Jackson is. Its not like y'all are on the Sixers board saying this...

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

Opportunity cost. What could your assets be if Hinkie wasn't there or if someone else with an eye for talent ran the tank? Hinkie is supposed to be from the school of Morey and Presti but Morey and Presti are good because they know talent when they see it. Hinkie did nothing that made me think he evaluated talent any more than all these other GMs so really the one thing he did well was trade (which isn't that hard if you value picks).

Sorry what? He took what was available at the time. Not his fault all the the top prospects all were 5's 3 years in a row. He also got a great player in Covington off the waiver wire, along with guys like Holmes that are good bench guys.

His lack of point guards is a strategic move IMO. If you don't have capable play from the 1 spot you lose a ton of games. You can tank a lot of games just by not having a PG. In 4 years of tanking he got Embiid and Simmons. That's a really solid haul considering both of them have star potential and Embiid might be more than just that. Plus, whatever they get this offseason.

In conclusion, when this Phill team is tearing up the league Hinkie deserves 100% credit and a **** championship ring. Let's not forget in 2019 he's gonna still have his fingerprints on the team when yet another top 5/10 pick rolls in

EDIT: holy **** I forgot Saric. And I also forgot the mastery of trading away MCW before people knew he sucked. That's a move I wish more GMs would make. Get rid of your young guys if you know they ain't gonna be ****.

Oh! And the Stauskas trade, great trade!! What did he even give up for that..?

Oh and let's not forget all the guys he has that are stashed in Europe currently and all the future 2nds that are gonna be stashed likely as well. They might be getting quality Euros for the next decade

[Izzite]

[E-Balla]

But what were our assets when Hinkie took in charge? It's not like we had even one player that could stick with the future of the team.

Opportunity cost. What could your assets be if Hinkie wasn't there or if someone else with an eye for talent ran the tank? Hinkie is supposed to be from the school of Morey and Presti but Morey and Presti are good because they know talent when they see it. Hinkie did nothing that made me think he evaluated talent any more than all these other GMs so really the one thing he did well was trade (which isn't that hard if you value picks).

Sorry what? He took what was available at the time. Not his fault all the the top prospects all were 5's 3 years in a row. He also got a great player in Covington off the waiver wire, along with guys like Holmes that are good bench guys.

His lack of point guards is a strategic move IMO. If you don't have capable play from the 1 spot you lose a ton of games. You can tank a lot of games just by not having a PG. In 4 years of tanking he got Embiid and Simmons. That's a really solid haul considering both of them have star potential and Embiid might be more than just that. Plus, whatever they get this offseason.

In conclusion, when this Phill team is tearing up the league Hinkie deserves 100% credit and a **** championship ring. Let's not forget in 2019 he's gonna still have his fingerprints on the team when yet another top 5/10 pick rolls in

EDIT: holy **** I forgot Saric. And I also forgot the mastery of trading away MCW before people knew he sucked. That's a move I wish more GMs would make. Get rid of your young guys if you know they ain't gonna be ****.

Oh! And the Stauskas trade, great trade!! What did he even give up for that..?

Oh and let's not forget all the guys he has that are stashed in Europe currently and all the future 2nds that are gonna be stashed likely as well. They might be getting quality Euros for the next decade

And like I've already said that's a lot of nothing. Simmons hasn't played, we don't know what those picks are, Embiid is still dangerously frail, and they did worse every year under Hinkie because he placed a 25% chance at the first pick over everything else no matter how **** the draft was. You're more in love with the idea of shamelessly tanking them with what Hinkie actually did and the results and its obvious because you keep talking about moves that haven't panned out and players that aren't even close to being on the roster. Plus if Colangelo does well and builds a team I'm sure all the pro Hinkie people will act like he could've built the team when we have no experience of doing so and no matter what anyone says Colangelo has built a contender before and he hasn't really made any bad moves. If we're gonna call Hinkie a genius let it be for something other than trading for future picks of bad franchises, having a subpar draft record, and being able to suck. Its not hard to suck.