Would OKC win more games with a different point guard?

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Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#1 » by Prince187 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:43 pm

Say you replaced Westbrook with someone like Chris Paul, Wall, Curry, harden, or anyone else you can think of. Would the Thunder win more games?
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#2 » by MoMan24 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:54 pm

See your asking the wrong question here I feel. More wins maybe. But would the team be in a better position to be successful. I would say yes. Someone like Wall plays elite defense, empowers his teammates and most importantly knows his own limitations. Chris Paul, and even Harden this year get the most out his teammates. To me Westbrook gets the most out of Westbrook. Would they have better stats? No. But Oladipo, Adams, Dougy, Robertson would have more confidence, they would be more empowered. When Russ is on the court your job is to defend, try to get him a rebound and shot only when he passes you the ball. trying to manufacture a triple double is not a winning formula.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#3 » by The_Hater » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:00 pm

Prince187 wrote:Say you replaced Westbrook with someone like Chris Paul, Wall, Curry, harden, or anyone else you can think of. Would the Thunder win more games?


Nope. OKC needs what Westbrook brings badly because they have such terrible offensive players surrounding him. Without Westbrook on the floor they had equivalent to the worst point differential in the league. So he basically turned a 17-20 win team into a 47 win team by himself.

On the flip side, I don't think the Warriors or Rockets would be better with RWB as their PG either. Different systems which currently have PG's who fit perfectly.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#4 » by RCM88x » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:08 pm

No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#5 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:09 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Prince187 wrote:Say you replaced Westbrook with someone like Chris Paul, Wall, Curry, harden, or anyone else you can think of. Would the Thunder win more games?


Nope. OKC needs what Westbrook brings badly because they have such terrible offensive players surrounding him. Without Westbrook on the floor they had equivalent to the worst point differential in the league. So he basically turned a 17-20 win team into a 47 win team by himself.

On the flip side, I don't think the Warriors or Rockets would be better with RWB as their PG either. Different systems which currently have PG's who fit perfectly.


Great post.

Westbrook is perfect if you need a guard to fill in a ton of gaps, which is what he did and how he got his triple doubles.

Meanwhile, a team with a good supporting cast would benefit from more efficient point guards.

It's a weird situation, really. Westbrook shines when he's by himself, but if you give him other players it'll take away his opportunities to get all those rebounds and points because he wouldn't need to do it all anymore. He's still be versatile as hell, like LeBron, but this season was the perfect storm for him to average a triple double.

However, with a better supporting cast I actually see Westbrook's assists sustaining and even getting higher, which is amazing because 10apg is very difficult to do. His scoring efficiency and rebounds would decline, though.


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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#6 » by Boston34Bg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:09 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Prince187 wrote:Say you replaced Westbrook with someone like Chris Paul, Wall, Curry, harden, or anyone else you can think of. Would the Thunder win more games?


Nope. OKC needs what Westbrook brings badly because they have such terrible offensive players surrounding him. Without Westbrook on the floor they had equivalent to the worst point differential in the league. So he basically turned a 17-20 win team into a 47 win team by himself.

On the flip side, I don't think the Warriors or Rockets would be better with RWB as their PG either. Different systems which currently have PG's who fit perfectly.


How is a big time star going to help Westbrook if he holds the ball in his hands for 10-17 seconds on 60% of the pocessions in a game??? Especially now that Durant is gone I dunno which star can help him. Not a hater, I just think WB needs to adjust his game a bit and play off the ball in order to improve his team's offense and let other players feel better about themselves.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#7 » by BadWolf » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:10 pm

MoMan24 wrote:See your asking the wrong question here I feel. More wins maybe. But would the team be in a better position to be successful. I would say yes. Someone like Wall plays elite defense, empowers his teammates and most importantly knows his own limitations. Chris Paul, and even Harden this year get the most out his teammates. To me Westbrook gets the most out of Westbrook. Would they have better stats? No. But Oladipo, Adams, Dougy, Robertson would have more confidence, they would be more empowered. When Russ is on the court your job is to defend, try to get him a rebound and shot only when he passes you the ball. trying to manufacture a triple double is not a winning formula.


We reached the end of the line. One bad 4th quarter does that to you.

Curry, a two time MVP, has a chance, maybe. I'm not sure how he'd react to lack of super teammates. Or even solid teammates.
Cp3 was good this year, but missed a lot of time (and Thunder would really to struggle to win anything in that time), so the question is pointless.
Wall no, see last season, he's not on that level, not yet.
Harden probably not, lack of shooting wood hurt him more.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#8 » by The_Hater » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:19 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Prince187 wrote:Say you replaced Westbrook with someone like Chris Paul, Wall, Curry, harden, or anyone else you can think of. Would the Thunder win more games?


Nope. OKC needs what Westbrook brings badly because they have such terrible offensive players surrounding him. Without Westbrook on the floor they had equivalent to the worst point differential in the league. So he basically turned a 17-20 win team into a 47 win team by himself.

On the flip side, I don't think the Warriors or Rockets would be better with RWB as their PG either. Different systems which currently have PG's who fit perfectly.


How is a big time star going to help Westbrook if he holds the ball in his hands for 10-17 seconds on 60% of the pocessions in a game??? Especially now that Durant is gone I dunno which star can help him. Not a hater, I just think WB needs to adjust his game a bit and play off the ball in order to improve his team's offense and let other players feel better about themselves.


Well Durant did led the league in scoring 4 times playing beside him. OKC went to the finals one season and came within a hair of knocking off a 73 win team in the WCF last season. In between they had serious injures 3 straight seasons which killed their playoff hopes. I'm not convinced it wasn't working and they could have won a title with a little better luck.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#9 » by diebieber » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:22 pm

According to Colin Cowherd, yeah.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#10 » by Triples333 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:27 pm

RCM88x wrote:No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.

Well they played one game without him and won on the road. Six guys scoring between 10-20 points. Probably secretly the most fun game of the season for half their team as they actually got to touch the ball.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#11 » by Coxy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:30 pm

RCM88x wrote:No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.


Disagree massively.

In the history of the game? Geese dude, I can think of several, starting with Magic, Penny, Steph, CP3, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, Stockton. Not to mention more current players like Wall and Harden.

The OKC roster is pretty decn t, just playing in bizarro land with a guy that wants to dominate the ball like never before, and the coaches are letting him do it. It's all very entertaining, and great stuff on getting to the 6th seed, but I fear for anyone playing in a Westbrook team moving forward. They aren't going to enjoy playing the game much soon, just like Durant found out.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#12 » by RCM88x » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Triples333 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.

Well they played one game without him and won on the road. Six guys scoring between 10-20 points. Probably secretly the most fun game of the season for half their team as they actually got to touch the ball.


Yea, you're right... they'd probably go 82-0. #fakemvp

They did play Minnesota in that game, who were clearly tanking the last few weeks of the season and were bad regardless. They finished the season what... 3-13 or something like that. With two of those wins coming by 1 point and the 3rd against the Lakers.

They probably should have finished 0-16, would have moved ahead of Orlando in the Lottery.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#13 » by RCM88x » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:38 pm

Coxy wrote:
RCM88x wrote:No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.


Disagree massively.

In the history of the game? Geese dude, I can think of several, starting with Magic, Penny, Steph, CP3, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, Stockton. Not to mention more current players like Wall and Harden.

The OKC roster is pretty decn t, just playing in bizarro land with a guy that wants to dominate the ball like never before, and the coaches are letting him do it. It's all very entertaining, and great stuff on getting to the 6th seed, but I fear for anyone playing in a Westbrook team moving forward. They aren't going to enjoy playing the game much soon, just like Durant found out.


Do you know what floor raising means? I cannot comprehend how someone would think that this team would be better with Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Kidd, or Stockton. None of those guys have played on rosters with zero two way talent like Westbrook currently is, nore have any of them lead a roster as bad as this to the playoffs. Especially Isaiah... like what?

Also, what world is this roster "pretty decent"? Outside of Westbrook they have like 2 average players and Kanter.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#14 » by Hangtime84 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Two PGS that would make OKC better
John Wall
Steph Curry

Thinking about who else now:
Maybe Lillard

They need a PG who can shoot and create for others.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#15 » by TheDavinciCHODE » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Would OKC win more games if they decided they didn't want to score more points than the opposition.

If you answer this question, then you will also answer the question that you posed.

Hint: this is a Yes/No question, and the answer is not Yes. The rest of the deductive logic is up to you. Good luck.

There is a short list of players you could replace WB with and have a better season this year. That list contains very few "other points guards".

Dragging Oladip/Steven Adams/Enes Kanter/Anthony Roberson/Kyle Singler to 47 wins is no easy feat.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#16 » by RCM88x » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:Two PGS that would make OKC better
John Wall
Steph Curry

Thinking about who else now:
Maybe Lillard

They need a PG who can shoot and create for others.


John Wall can shoot?

Lillard had a better roster than Westbrook and won fewer games... not sure what he'd bring to the team that Westbrook doesn't. He worse in every way but 3pt shooting at times.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#17 » by Hangtime84 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:49 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:Two PGS that would make OKC better
John Wall
Steph Curry

Thinking about who else now:
Maybe Lillard

They need a PG who can shoot and create for others.


John Wall can shoot?

Lillard had a better roster than Westbrook and won fewer games... not sure what he'd bring to the team that Westbrook doesn't. He worse in every way but 3pt shooting at times.


Not amazing but respectable. You have to guard him and not play him like he is "Rondo"
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#18 » by Triples333 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Triples333 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.

Well they played one game without him and won on the road. Six guys scoring between 10-20 points. Probably secretly the most fun game of the season for half their team as they actually got to touch the ball.


Yea, you're right... they'd probably go 82-0. #fakemvp

They did play Minnesota in that game, who were clearly tanking the last few weeks of the season and were bad regardless. They finished the season what... 3-13 or something like that. With two of those wins coming by 1 point and the 3rd against the Lakers.

They probably should have finished 0-16, would have moved ahead of Orlando in the Lottery.

Well I'd say getting smacked out of the 1st round while shooting 34.8% from the field on 33 attempts +6.5 turnovers a game is a better argument to back up your "#fakeMVP" comment.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#19 » by Saints14 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:54 pm

I don't think they would have won more games with another PG. I think Curry is the better player, so maybe him, but it's tough to say given that Curry hasn't played with a roster like the Thunder (at least not in his prime). Other than LBJ, I don't think any player can do more with less than Russ.

Also, OKC was a pretty great team with both Durant and Westbrook. While I don't think WB brings as much value to an already good team as Curry or maybe CP3, to say he can't play with other good players is insane. If not for bad luck with injuries and running into historically great Warriors teams, OKC easily could have won a title or two over the past 5 years.
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Re: Would OKC win more games with a different point guard? 

Post#20 » by Yoshun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:56 pm

I'm not really sure where this idea of Westbrook not passing or creating for others comes from. He's 3rd in the league APG, 0.3 being John Wall, and tops the league in Assist % (among the league's top PGs) and in 2 les MPG than Harden and Wall. Somehow, he has done this without passing the ball or creating for his teammates. Go figure.

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