Would OKC win more games with a different point guard?

[Patches Perry]

I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.

PG- George Hill
SG- Victor Oladipo
SF- Andre Roberson
PF- Taj Gibson
C - Steven Adams

Bench- Enes Kanter
Bench- Semaj Christon
Bench- Domantas Sabonis
Bench- Doug McDermott
Bench- Jerami Grant

50 win team?

Are people delusional?

George Hill? A good player, but not capable of carrying a team to the playoffs or even 35 wins... where the heck are people getting this BS from?

This is what happens when people take too seriously the making teammates better narrative. That's been used to discredit Westbrook, so it only follows logically that his teammates aren't actually bad, but rather he is making them that way. Again, from there, it follows that all these guys or some of them are potential all-stars being held back by Westbrook. It really descends into absurdity when your argument hinges on guys like Andre Roberson being all-star caliber players.

[Johnlac1]

They're getting beat by a team that has a far better roster 2-15. Beverly, Ariza, Gordon, Williams have all completely outplayed anyone on OKC outside of Westbrook. I mean, who's he going to defer to? Oladipo? Robertson? They have no perimeter talent outside of Westbrook and its showing.

BTW here is Oladipo's stat line for the first two games:

8.5/6/3/1/1/1.5tov on 19/8/100 for a .29 TS%, yea... He's shooting 19% from the field and 8% from 3pt with 13FGA attempts per game which is only 1FGA below his season average. ORTG of 70, DRTG of 120.

The fact that people even expect this to be a competitive series is all due to how good Westbrook is. Without him they probably would lose every game by 50, everyone on this roster has been awful outside of Robertson who's probably played two of the best offensive games of his career, scoring 18 and 12 points... just think about that.

"They have no perimeter talent outside of Westbrook and its showing."
Uh, Oladipo and McDermott are both far better three ball shooters than WB.

Oladipo is shooting 9% in the playoffs so far on 6 attempts per game.

McDermott is a slightly above average shooter but might be the 2nd worst defensive player on the team.

Yes, and who is pounding the rock, taking 43 shots in one game, and not giving his teammates many chances to shoot? WB is just not very good at setting up an offense. His main worth is putting tremendous pressure on the def. to keep him from getting easy shots at the rim. That is not a minor thing, and WB deserves a lot of credit for being able to do that.
'But as far as maximizing the talents of his teammates, he doesn't have a clue. The best use of WB is to have him drive and shoot or kick out. If he's not doing that, he's not contributing nearly as much as many other pgs in the league could with the same players.

[MaxRider]

I'm not really sure where this idea of Westbrook not passing or creating for others comes from. He's 3rd in the league APG, 0.3 being John Wall, and tops the league in Assist % (among the league's top PGs) and in 2 les MPG than Harden and Wall. Somehow, he has done this without passing the ball or creating for his teammates. Go figure.

Harden and Wall pass the ball so his team has the best chance to score
Westbrook pass the ball if he has a chance to get an assist
Can't blame him
people in this era care more about personal stat than team success
that's how their agent can get them bigger contract by showing their stats

wasn't there news about someone didn't shoot anymore 3 for the rest of the season because his contract has a bonus if he can shoot over certain 3 point percent?
he didn't shoot anymore because another missed will put his percentage lower than the contract number

[Patches Perry]

I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.

PG- George Hill
SG- Victor Oladipo
SF- Andre Roberson
PF- Taj Gibson
C - Steven Adams

Bench- Enes Kanter
Bench- Semaj Christon
Bench- Domantas Sabonis
Bench- Doug McDermott
Bench- Jerami Grant

50 win team?

Yeah possibly. The talent gets utilized better at the very least, which I think would help develop the team aspect more, and get players more engaged and motivated to win, rather than help 1 player to do,it all. Hill is a really good defender, and an underrated scorer and leader. Can't stress enough what bringing in a high character guy like Hill would do, and removing the arrogant ego of Westbrook would do for that group. I'm huge on chemistry, and I don't think RW is very good for it.

We have bodies of work that suggest Oladipo (Orlando), Gibson (Chicago) and Kanter (Utah) aren't much different with and without Westbrook. So unless you're banking on Roberson and/or Adams becoming big-time scorers, I don't see any way that team can score enough to win even 20 games. They don't have a single all-star, a single 20ppg scorer, still have horrible spacing except without someone to actually penetrate, and a bunch of one dimensional players.

I imagine your opinion on Westbrook is an extreme one, but it's kind of shocking how little you think of Westbrook, and/or how highly you think of his teammates.

[Coxy]

PG- George Hill
SG- Victor Oladipo
SF- Andre Roberson
PF- Taj Gibson
C - Steven Adams

Bench- Enes Kanter
Bench- Semaj Christon
Bench- Domantas Sabonis
Bench- Doug McDermott
Bench- Jerami Grant

50 win team?

Are people delusional?

George Hill? A good player, but not capable of carrying a team to the playoffs or even 35 wins... where the heck are people getting this BS from?

This is what happens when people take too seriously the making teammates better narrative. That's been used to discredit Westbrook, so it only follows logically that his teammates aren't actually bad, but rather he is making them that way. Again, from there, it follows that all these guys or some of them are potential all-stars being held back by Westbrook. It really descends into absurdity when your argument hinges on guys like Andre Roberson being all-star caliber players.

Who said anything about all-star caliber players? Not sure where anybody claimed that they were hinging their arguments on any of the OKC players being all-star caliber?

In terms of your argument that he is not making his teammates worse by dominating the ball like he is, that would mean that he is utilising his teammates quite well then I'd imagine?

[RCM88x]

"They have no perimeter talent outside of Westbrook and its showing."
Uh, Oladipo and McDermott are both far better three ball shooters than WB.

Oladipo is shooting 9% in the playoffs so far on 6 attempts per game.

McDermott is a slightly above average shooter but might be the 2nd worst defensive player on the team.

Yes, and who is pounding the rock, taking 43 shots in one game, and not giving his teammates many chances to shoot? WB is just not very good at setting up an offense. His main worth is putting tremendous pressure on the def. to keep him from getting easy shots at the rim. That is not a minor thing, and WB deserves a lot of credit for being able to do that.
'But as far as maximizing the talents of his teammates, he doesn't have a clue. The best use of WB is to have him drive and shoot or kick out. If he's not doing that, he's not contributing nearly as much as many other pgs in the league could with the same players.

Where are you getting this from!? Do you think John Wall could carry this team to 47 wins and wins in either of these playoff games? He only won 49 games with a far better roster in Washington and hasn't proven squat in his playoff career. Curry? Who's worse on defense and has never averaged more than 8.5 assists in his career despite having a far better offensive supporting cast?

I honestly think the only guys who could possibly do more with this roster are a 2006-2010 Lebron, or 86-93 Jordan... There is simply no one with the ability to score and pass like Westbrook can in the history of the game on a consistent basis while not killing his team in other areas, while also being able to handle the ball as much as he can and give the energy on as many possessions as Westbrook does.

[Patches Perry]

Are people delusional?

George Hill? A good player, but not capable of carrying a team to the playoffs or even 35 wins... where the heck are people getting this BS from?

This is what happens when people take too seriously the making teammates better narrative. That's been used to discredit Westbrook, so it only follows logically that his teammates aren't actually bad, but rather he is making them that way. Again, from there, it follows that all these guys or some of them are potential all-stars being held back by Westbrook. It really descends into absurdity when your argument hinges on guys like Andre Roberson being all-star caliber players.

Who said anything about all-star caliber players? Not sure where anybody claimed that they were hinging their arguments on any of the OKC players being all-star caliber?

In terms of your argument that he is not making his teammates worse by dominating the ball like he is, that would mean that he is utilising his teammates quite well then I'd imagine?

A group of non-scoring non all-stars aren't winning 50 games. By saying they'd win 50, you're saying somebody is going to emerge from their current group. They can't just plug in George Hill and win 50 with everyone staying at their current production.

[Frank Dux]

Give Westbrook Chris Paul's supporting cast and they'd make the western conference finals.

[Warriorfan]

Its interesting if Curry, Harden, Paul were traded to OKC for Westbrook they would fall in the rankings and OKC maybe move up only to a 4. 5 seed.

GS would be a 2 seed become Iso ball team
Hou a 6th seed less assists worse spacing
LAC 6th seed Jordan would be less relevant.

Westbrook would be unguardable, given how much spacing the warriors has. Go watch how teams are playing him and you will understand why. You need at least 2 help defender to stop Westbrook from going to the paint.

Curry had a terrible game 2, yet they still blew out the Portland like it was nothing, show you how stack his team are.

Curry creates the spacing for others in GS.
Would Westbrook share PG duties with Green.
Would Thompson be less utilized.
Westbrook Durant was not championship caliber.

Im saying Curry to Westbrook is 5 less wins.

[Warriorfan]

Give Westbrook Chris Paul's supporting cast and they'd make the western conference finals.

I believe it would be the Blake Westbrook Iso show in LAC. Jordan would score under 10 a game and get some rebounds stolen by Westbrook

[Coxy]

PG- George Hill
SG- Victor Oladipo
SF- Andre Roberson
PF- Taj Gibson
C - Steven Adams

Bench- Enes Kanter
Bench- Semaj Christon
Bench- Domantas Sabonis
Bench- Doug McDermott
Bench- Jerami Grant

50 win team?

Yeah possibly. The talent gets utilized better at the very least, which I think would help develop the team aspect more, and get players more engaged and motivated to win, rather than help 1 player to do,it all. Hill is a really good defender, and an underrated scorer and leader. Can't stress enough what bringing in a high character guy like Hill would do, and removing the arrogant ego of Westbrook would do for that group. I'm huge on chemistry, and I don't think RW is very good for it.

We have bodies of work that suggest Oladipo (Orlando), Gibson (Chicago) and Kanter (Utah) aren't much different with and without Westbrook. So unless you're banking on Roberson and/or Adams becoming big-time scorers, I don't see any way that team can score enough to win even 20 games. They don't have a single all-star, a single 20ppg scorer, still have horrible spacing except without someone to actually penetrate, and a bunch of one dimensional players.

I imagine your opinion on Westbrook is an extreme one, but it's kind of shocking how little you think of Westbrook, and/or how highly you think of his teammates.

In that team, George Hill, Olodipo and Kanter would be the main scorers, and Hill and Dipo would possibly be 20+. I think Westbrook is a freak of nature, and a beast of a player. Westbrooks talent isn't the knock I have, it's his attitude towards this team orientated game, and his stubborn ego that would allow him to utilise his teammates strengths. I'm a huge believer in team basketball, and Westbrook is the exact opposite of what I believe in as a coach. All of those gaudy numbers do nothing for a team in the playoffs, when teams just dial in on him, and he hasn't worked out how to get his teammates going, and refuses to, because he thinks he just keep going himself and win. I'd pull my hair out as a teammate, and don't get me started if I were the coach. If Westbrook was the least bit humble, and actively went about making his team better as PG, I believe KD would still be there.

Too many get caught up in the on court stuff, but sport is so so much about personalities and chemistry of a group of men coming together for winning. I believe, whilst Westbrook is an insane athlete and player, his attitude and perhaps lack of hard headed coaching, makes him as big a liability as he is a positive. He's a bit of a conundrum, but sells tickets. That's just my opinion, each to their own.

[floppymoose]

All this Westbrook polarization reminds me of the first time I ever saw him in a Thunder uni. It was a preseason game at Golden State his rookie year. A friend and I were there. Westbrook was a hot mess. Out of control. Bricking. Turning it over. The game hadn't slowed down for him yet. But he was also just an off the charts athlete with a take no prisoners attitude.

My friend and I were discussing him afterwards and if I remember correctly he was thinking Westbrook was not going to end well and I was thinking he was a future all-star. Maybe we were both right.

If I talk about Westbrook long enough I'll piss off both sides (same as if I talk about Cousins). Because I believe he is an mvp-level talent but I also think he has major issues with his play style that are preventing his team from being all it could be.

[Patches Perry]

Westbrook Durant was not championship caliber.

Put Klay Thompson and Draymond Green on the Thunder last year, I think they'd do just fine.

Im saying Curry to Westbrook is 5 less wins.

I actually agree with that, but 5 less than 73 is still 68, 5 less than 67 is 62. Either way, that is championship caliber. I think Curry is better than Westbrook, but if Westbrook was on the current Warriors in place of Curry, they'd still win championships rather easily.

[Frank Dux]

Give Westbrook Chris Paul's supporting cast and they'd make the western conference finals.

I believe it would be the Blake Westbrook Iso show in LAC. Jordan would score under 10 a game and get some rebounds stolen by Westbrook

Jordan's value would be catching Westbrook's lobs, defense, and rim protection. He's much better than any big OKC has.

[Patches Perry]

In that team, George Hill, Olodipo and Kanter would be the main scorers, and Hill and Dipo would possibly be 20+.

This is definitely the point we disagree on. I don't have any reason to believe Hill or Oladipo could score 20+ppg. They've never been close to that, and Oladipo has only recently played with Westbrook. If you think they would, then I imagine you think far more of them than the rest of us.

[Coxy]

This is what happens when people take too seriously the making teammates better narrative. That's been used to discredit Westbrook, so it only follows logically that his teammates aren't actually bad, but rather he is making them that way. Again, from there, it follows that all these guys or some of them are potential all-stars being held back by Westbrook. It really descends into absurdity when your argument hinges on guys like Andre Roberson being all-star caliber players.

Who said anything about all-star caliber players? Not sure where anybody claimed that they were hinging their arguments on any of the OKC players being all-star caliber?

In terms of your argument that he is not making his teammates worse by dominating the ball like he is, that would mean that he is utilising his teammates quite well then I'd imagine?

A group of non-scoring non all-stars aren't winning 50 games. By saying they'd win 50, you're saying somebody is going to emerge from their current group. They can't just plug in George Hill and win 50 with everyone staying at their current production.

They wouldn't stay at their current production, obviously. Your removing the guy with the biggest usage in the league (and league history I believe), and also his 6 turnover average per game, lol. Adams would absolutely emerge, and so would Dipo playing next to Hill, massively. They'd all be better, big time, as Donovan would get to coach a team, rather than a player trying to win with other players on court.

I didn't say they would win 50, I said it was possible. Life is full of grey and context, not black and white.

[Frank Dux]

My friend and I were discussing him afterwards and if I remember correctly he was thinking Westbrook was not going to end well and I was thinking he was a future all-star. Maybe we were both right.

A lot of the younger posters here don't realize that Westbrook wasn't really supposed to be a star. I'm from L.A. and have been following him since he was at UCLA. He wasn't a big-time recruit, but turned into a fan favorite because he was a ball hawk who hustled hard, and played D. He was definitely athletic, but I never thought at the time he was going to be a star in the NBA. I thought he was a role player at the next level, at best.

Even as a huge UCLA fan, I thought OKC was crazy drafting him that high. Shows what I know, right?

[Coxy]

In that team, George Hill, Olodipo and Kanter would be the main scorers, and Hill and Dipo would possibly be 20+.

This is definitely the point we disagree on. I don't have any reason to believe Hill or Oladipo could score 20+ppg. They've never been close to that, and Oladipo has only recently played with Westbrook. If you think they would, then I imagine you think far more of them than the rest of us.

Yep fair enough. I'm a massive George Hill fan. I think he'd be able to generate huge gaudy numbers for himself with his talent level, but doesn't as he is a team guy and a humble character. VO is also massively talented, but has played next to 2 PGs that are less than average at running a team. He's still developing as well, but has stalled due to his current situation. Wouldn't surprise me if he asked for a trade to be honest.

[Scizzup]

Lol people need to relax. Yes no other pg would put up the STATS Russ just did but that doesn't mean they couldn't lead OKC to similar record (give 2-3 games). Go look back at 14/15 Rockets or the 15/16 Portland that won 44 games. OKC is a good defensive and most of Russ carry is offense and Curry/Harden excel offensively/efficient volume scoring. Even in 13/14 before Curry/gsw became great their offense was +16 better with him on compared to off and was top 3 in ORPM. If you say Curry/Harden can't lead this OKC team to around 44-46 teams you are trippin.

[BadWolf]

Just wondering, what would Adams emerge into?
Dipo looked average at best his whole career, whay do you expect massive improvements? Massive! He was never really good.