Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes)

[ThaRegul8r]

IMO, Leonard should be the MVP. He sacrifices his game for team success and it's paid off.

Which is why it's irrelevant to him whether or not he wins any awards since that isn't the goal. Non-playing spectators care more about it. If he's doing what he does for team success, then team success is its own reward. Nothing else is required since it has nothing to do with the objective.

[ThaRegul8r]

Do really you want basketball fans of the future looking back and wondering why he didn't get it w/ those kind of stats and then having to comprehend that he didn't win cause that 3rd seed Houston team had 8 more wins than his team? I can see of if Harden led his team to the best record in the league, but GSW had him beat by more than 10 wins. Like think about if we were looking at a stat line like his from the past - what would we think?

What difference does it make though what basketball fans 20-30 years from now who didn't watch basketball this season or who aren't even alive right now think? Seeing how history repeats itself, 20-30 years from now basketball fans will be talking about how inferior this era is anyway and how the stars today wouldn't be as good as whoever the stars will be 20-30 years in the future, just as you have basketball fans now saying how basketball 20-30 years ago is inferior to basketball today. Future fans won't have any more reason to care about what happens now than most fans today care about what happened 20-30 years ago if they weren't actually watching it then.

[ThaRegul8r]

Well, from my personal view as a sport fan, sports is ultimate for entertainment

For a non-playing spectator, sports is entertainment. And after the sporting event is over, non-playing spectators will turn off the television (or change the channel to another form of entertainment) or leave the arena and go back to their lives. To the athletes who actually participate, it's their profession. What they do for a living.

[Rednation91]

Harden got screwed twice for opposite reasons.

2015: Harden lost the MVP to Curry because Curry's team was better. Harden had the raw stats advantage and let's not act like the Rockets were nobodies, they were contenders as the #2 seed and division champs. Most of his team was garbage especially due to Dwight missing half the season. Harden carried that squad. No one cared that Curry's team was also stacked with the best bench in the NBA.

2017: Harden loses to Westbrook even though Westbrook's team is worse. We are talking about a sixth seed here, a non-contending team. Westbrook has better raw stats and apparently that's enough. Harden gets penalized for having more help yet nobody penalized Curry in 2015.

Well, from my personal view as a sport fan, sports is ultimate for entertainment, and Curry and Westbrook are damn well more entertain than the Foul-Drawing Master. I would give the award to Leonard, Lebron, KD, Draymond, and whoever else more worth my time watching for entertainment purpose.

Some people will disagree, and that's fine. But some people will agree and that's why they voted for RW, which is more than fair enough for an individual honor in the game of basketball.

Foul drawing master? What about russ? Lets take a look at the series so far.
harden 17.8 drives per game, 4.8 fta off drives and 14 fta overall
russ 11.3 drives per game 4.3 fta off drives and 13.3 fta overall.
If you hate harden for drawing fouls, why not russ? Russ drives to the basket 6.5 less times a game and only gets 0.7 pess fts. Seems russ is getting the benefit of the whistle

[primecougar]

Kobe was not better than LeBron in 2009, so no I was not.

2009
lebron puts up godly stats and loses to orlando. cant even say lebron didnt have help because howards team wasnt that great.
kobe puts up great numbers but takes posessions off defensively/etc but in the playoffs he becomes a beast and wins the rings.

2016
Westbrook/harden put godly numbers but not real contenders
lebron puts great number but sleep walks the reg season, takes rest and wins 51 games but somehow he should be mvp.

Sleep walk on D. On offense he avg 26ppg on 55% shooting, 36% from 3, 8.6 assists and 8.7 rebounds per game. I'd hardly call that coasting.

The difference is Westbrook is a selfish player who doesn't include his teammates when he needs help, and LeBron is a fantastic teammate with a way higher bball IQ. Not to mention Westbrook was clearly stat padding a lot for his triple doubles. He worked his arse off I will give you that.

Like I've said before, Westbrook (or Harden) should win "Best regular season player of the year" award, but MVP, LeBron is the most valuable player in the league w/o question. He won't win it simply bc everyone is so used to his greatness it's at the point you take it for granted.

So why did you completely ignore harden? He's in a tougher conference, has more wins in a tougher conference, is Uber efficient and has a way worse supporting cast compared to lebron. He also put up better individual numbers compared to lebron. So what's lebrons deal with being MVP over harden?

So when lebron averages 26-8-8 he's an amazing player that gets his teammates involved but when Westbrook averages 30-10-10 he's a selfish player that stat pads. How could he be selfish but average more assists than lebron with literally garbage shooters all around.

Ya he pads his rebounds but let's not act like lebron 8 assists are all contested rebounds.

Westbrook with his garbage cast got 4 less wins than lebron got with his super team in a tougher conference.

Lebron is great but he's definetly not MVP no matter what your criteria is.

[Rednation91]

What really would have ruined the award was rewarding the way Harden plays the game: by flopping and baiting for "fouls" on damn near every possession instead of trying to play in good faith. IMO, he shouldn't be in the discussion for any accolades until he starts playing the right way.

Same reason why CP3 never win it

CP3 is not even in the same stratosphere as Harden when it comes to flopping. It's an every-possession thing for Harden, or at least close to it.

How do u come to that conclusion? Do you watch a majority of rockets games? Or just following narrative and still SAD that rox came bacl 3-1 to the clips. Im thinking the latter cus every post is hating on harden

[Rednation91]

Harden got screwed twice for opposite reasons.

2015: Harden lost the MVP to Curry because Curry's team was better. Harden had the raw stats advantage and let's not act like the Rockets were nobodies, they were contenders as the #2 seed and division champs. Most of his team was garbage especially due to Dwight missing half the season. Harden carried that squad. No one cared that Curry's team was also stacked with the best bench in the NBA.

2017: Harden loses to Westbrook even though Westbrook's team is worse. We are talking about a sixth seed here, a non-contending team. Westbrook has better raw stats and apparently that's enough. Harden gets penalized for having more help yet nobody penalized Curry in 2015.

I think matador defense screwed him in 2015.

Uhhh that year was the year he played decent defense. Not good but decent. Russ this year tho? 3rd least contested shots for players w/30+mpg? PATHETIC. You do know you cant play defense without contesting right? Ive seen it all series too. Russ in the paint waiting for boards, while bev (38% 3pt shooter) is WIDE OPEN in the corner. Many daggers this series happened that way. Why does russ get a pass for not playing defense?

[MrCheerios]

IMO, Leonard should be the MVP. He sacrifices his game for team success and it's paid off.

Which is why it's irrelevant to him whether or not he wins any awards since that isn't the goal. Non-playing spectators care more about it. If he's doing what he does for team success, then team success is its own reward. Nothing else is required since it has nothing to do with the objective.

I would like to recognize dominant players who are also team oriented, whether or not it personally matters to that player. For me, someone who boosts their statline with the intention of winning awards almost doesn't deserve it. It's like watching actors trying to chase an Oscar, I don't even want you to get it anymore!

[ken6199]

Quick experiment.

Move HOU-OKC 4 RS games to the end of the season, move WB's Dalls and Denver games earlier, move Harden's week of him injuring his hand earlier. How would the voting go? Or move those games OKC getting trashed by GS towards the end of the season, how would the voting go?

I get all the recency bias and accept that's part of it, yet, they are taking way too much weight. They keep saying it's a regular season award, fact is, it's NOT. It's more and more like 'who gets the last impression in the final 4 weeks and who makes a couple more buzz beaters' award.

Anyway, congrats to WB. I love him too, but I think the decision is wrong. 3 seasons in a row, Harden all got screwed - MVP, all nba, MVP. Call me homer all you want, this is disgusting stuff.

[enko]

Russell or Harden deserves the MVP. Lebron is not in the discussion. MVP is also a regular season thing. What you do in the playoff is irrelevant. Russell and Harden also plays in stronger conference. Congrats to Russell for the MVP.

[bmurph128]

This is all because of the Warriors.

In a regular year, neither of these guys would be your MVP. A team that finishes 3rd in it's conference is just as bad as a team that finishes 6th from an MVP perspective. It's almost unheard of.

We spent the entire year debating these two when neither will play a part in who wins the title this year. It's also a debate between the 5th and 6th best players in the NBA winning the MVP.

Adding all this up...it's all a perfect storm. I don't think either candidate has a great argument over the other. It's a complete coin toss as to who will win.

Curry and Kawhi probably deserve it over both, but narrative has helped both Harden and WB.

[bmurph128]

I hope Harden wins and they somehow make the finals so that LeBron could give Harden the Curry treatment.

[ooptolebron]

Firstly, to the person talking about meaningless rebounds, what about every point Harden or whoever scores after the game is already out of reach? Meaningless points too right. The game is about scoring, passing, and rebounding the ball. Westbrook excels in all 3 facets. He averaged 10.7 rebounds which is well clear of 10 so its not like it was a borderline thing. Even if you take away .5 rebounds that are "gifted" to him (since when does a big man have his name written on a rebound -- wait, so what if the big is being gifted free - nvm) , hes still clear of the 10 milestone. I saw a stat that his percentage of defensive rebounds is roughly the same as Harden and LeBron. People are reading too much into this.

Now in terms of approach to the game, I hope you aren't insinuating that he is all about chasing stats. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't know if I have disagreed more with a post in a long time.

The game is about scoring more points than your opponent. For a PG that means creating for your teammates, scoring, defending. Westbrook shoots way too many bad shots. If he replaced his poor shots with ball movement he would probably be an all time favorite of mine.

Take away .5 rebounds? You think he is padding his rebounds by .5? His offensive rebounds on missed FTs is 30-40% higher than Deandre Jordan, Drummond and Whiteside. He doesn't line up on the block and led the NBA in rebounding FTs by >40% and got 1.2 boards a game from missed FTs. He broke the record for DRBD% by a guard by almost 40%. All while not defending his man. Even if you just put him right at the record for a guard he would have 202 fewer rebounds. And that's giving him the best rebound rate ever. Do you realize his off rebounds went down a fair amount from last year? Everything about his rebounding was a farce.

You saw a stat... that you don't know... that you cannot support... that said he was as good a rebounder as LeBron?

The mental gymnastics involved with accepting his rebounding totals is striking.

1. You said the game is about scoring more than your opponent. Westbrook was the scoring champion. Check.
2. Its about creating for your teammates. Westbrook was #3 in assists (even with terrible teammates)
3. His defense isnt the best but hes the best rebounding guard in history and #12 in steals per game, both stats considered to be part of defense.
4. Yes his shot selection can be questionable but when you have a bad team you have no choice. Ask Kobe in 2006. By the way his efficiency was similar to many of Kobe's seasons. I dont think anyone is denying Kobe's impact regardless of efficiency.
5. He had several clutch baskets and game winners
6. A rebound is a rebound. Someone has to get it. Why can't it be Russell? Securing a defensive rebound prevents the other team from getting it, doesn't matter who got it.
7. His O Rbs went down by .1 - big difference right.
8. The stat compares the % of rebounds that are defensive out of the whole. Westbrook's is similar to LeBron and Harden. I did not say anything about being as good a rebounder as LeBron (thats a different argument). So clearly YOU didn't understand the stat. The mental gymnastics of trying to discredit his all time great accomplishment is striking.

[MrCheerios]

We spent the entire year debating these two when neither will play a part in who wins the title this year. It's also a debate between the 5th and 6th best players in the NBA winning the MVP.

...

Curry and Kawhi probably deserve it over both, but narrative has helped both Harden and WB.

I endorse Kawhi for MVP, but it's not a surefire thing that he advances past the Rockets in the next round. And I think there's a slim chance that he gets past GS even if he does. MVP discussion can't be based on who plays a part in winning the title.

[kib0yski]

Bull


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[HurricaneKid]

Firstly, to the person talking about meaningless rebounds, what about every point Harden or whoever scores after the game is already out of reach? Meaningless points too right. The game is about scoring, passing, and rebounding the ball. Westbrook excels in all 3 facets. He averaged 10.7 rebounds which is well clear of 10 so its not like it was a borderline thing. Even if you take away .5 rebounds that are "gifted" to him (since when does a big man have his name written on a rebound -- wait, so what if the big is being gifted free - nvm) , hes still clear of the 10 milestone. I saw a stat that his percentage of defensive rebounds is roughly the same as Harden and LeBron. People are reading too much into this.

Now in terms of approach to the game, I hope you aren't insinuating that he is all about chasing stats. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't know if I have disagreed more with a post in a long time.

The game is about scoring more points than your opponent. For a PG that means creating for your teammates, scoring, defending. Westbrook shoots way too many bad shots. If he replaced his poor shots with ball movement he would probably be an all time favorite of mine.

Take away .5 rebounds? You think he is padding his rebounds by .5? His offensive rebounds on missed FTs is 30-40% higher than Deandre Jordan, Drummond and Whiteside. He doesn't line up on the block and led the NBA in rebounding FTs by >40% and got 1.2 boards a game from missed FTs. He broke the record for DRBD% by a guard by almost 40%. All while not defending his man. Even if you just put him right at the record for a guard he would have 202 fewer rebounds. And that's giving him the best rebound rate ever. Do you realize his off rebounds went down a fair amount from last year? Everything about his rebounding was a farce.

You saw a stat... that you don't know... that you cannot support... that said he was as good a rebounder as LeBron?

The mental gymnastics involved with accepting his rebounding totals is striking.

1. You said the game is about scoring more than your opponent. Westbrook was the scoring champion. Check.
2. Its about creating for your teammates. Westbrook was #3 in assists (even with terrible teammates)
3. His defense isnt the best but hes the best rebounding guard in history and #12 in steals per game, both stats considered to be part of defense.
4. Yes his shot selection can be questionable but when you have a bad team you have no choice. Ask Kobe in 2006. By the way his efficiency was similar to many of Kobe's seasons. I dont think anyone is denying Kobe's impact regardless of efficiency.
5. He had several clutch baskets and game winners
6. A rebound is a rebound. Someone has to get it. Why can't it be Russell? Securing a defensive rebound prevents the other team from getting it, doesn't matter who got it.
7. His O Rbs went down by .1 - big difference right.
8. The stat compares the % of rebounds that are defensive out of the whole. Westbrook's is similar to LeBron and Harden. I did not say anything about being as good a rebounder as LeBron (thats a different argument). So clearly YOU didn't understand the stat. The mental gymnastics of trying to discredit his all time great accomplishment is striking.

We are not on the same page at all.

Westbrook led his team to the #15 offense in the NBA. That's exactly average. Now to be sure, he didn't have a lot of help on that side of the ball. Scoring more than your opponent has to mean more than just taking 370 more shots than any other player in the league.

When you shoot 370 more times than any other player you had BETTER pass it at least periodically. Which is the entire point of having an absurd USG%. It NECESSITATES stat accumulation.

His rebounding is NOT part of his defense. Its the antithesis of his defense. His abject lack of defense is what GIVES HIM REBOUNDS.

That's absurd. You have a choice to shoot or not to shoot. And even with KD/Harden/Ibaka he always chose to shoot. He actually led the league in FGAs when KD was on his team.

He was GREAT in the clutch. Except against good teams. He is magical against the Orlandos of the league.

A rebound is considered valuable because you gained possession of the ball rather than your opponent. But when the other option is your teammate gets it its value is GONE. And no one in the league had more uncontested rebounds than Russ. If it doesn't matter who gets it why does he get so much credit for getting them?

Its not a big drop, its to point out that the entirety of his rebounding increase occurred because he was taking more rebounds from his team than he was from his opponent.

Stats are used as benchmarks to the contributions a player makes. When you rig all the stats you can't accurately measure the contributions a player makes. He is the first player in 40 years to win an MVP that wasn't on a top 3 seed. He did it by not playing ANY defense and leading his team to the 15th ranked offense shooting .002 over the league avg TS%. He is majestic to watch when he is going right and he is the worst train wreck ever when he is going wrong. He is eminently watchable. But the truth is no one that plays the way he plays will EVER have success. Its selfish and its bad basketball. And its frustrating to see so many people revere and reward that type of play.