Kareem 1985 Finals Game 2

Jiminy Glick · Post #1 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:27 pm

At 37 years old Kareem was putting up the stats 30/17/8 on a 58% fg% in Game 2. I think he might have been better then Jordan. He didn't have as successful as a roster as Jordan as early in his career that is why it took him a while to win as much as Jordan.

Watch on YouTube

Bertrob · Post #2 » by **Bertrob** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:31 pm

Jordan's first "good" team was 88. That was 4 years into his career. Kareem won the title his 2nd season and had Oscar. So I don't understand your last line

Jiminy Glick · Post #3 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:33 pm

Bertrob wrote:Jordan's first "good" team was 88. That was 4 years into his career. Kareem won the title his 2nd season. So I don't understand your last line

Sorry I edited it, Kareem only had an old Oscar, while Jordan had Pippen and Grant. Pippen was better then Oscar.

Dan Z · Post #4 » by **Dan Z** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:45 pm

I don't know enough about his Bucks teams, but he won a championship in 70-71 (with an older Oscar Robertson) and they were contenders almost every season he was there. How much of it was KAJ? Or how much was a combination of KAJ plus the roster? I don't know those answers, but based on stats he did have good teammate in Robertson, Bob Dandridge, and Lucius Allen.

He's definitely in the GOAT conversation and depending on your point of view he is the GOAT.

Dan Z · Post #5 » by **Dan Z** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:46 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:
Bertrob wrote:Jordan's first "good" team was 88. That was 4 years into his career. Kareem won the title his 2nd season. So I don't understand your last line

Sorry I edited it, Kareem only had an old Oscar, while Jordan had Pippen and Grant. Pippen was better then Oscar.

This guy was pretty good too:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dandrbo01.html

JordansBulls · Post #6 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:22 am

Kareem lost and that with prime Magic on his squad and only won 54 games at that.

Jiminy Glick · Post #7 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:39 am

JordansBulls wrote:Kareem lost and that with prime Magic on his squad and only won 54 games at that.

There are other variables at play. 1983 Magic didn't score well for example. 1984 they got outrebounded.

Jiminy Glick · Post #8 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:41 am

Dan Z wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
Bertrob wrote:Jordan's first "good" team was 88. That was 4 years into his career. Kareem won the title his 2nd season. So I don't understand your last line

Sorry I edited it, Kareem only had an old Oscar, while Jordan had Pippen and Grant. Pippen was better then Oscar.

This guy was pretty good too:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dandrbo01.html

Agree, not as potent of a combo as Pippen and Grant though.

JordansBulls · Post #9 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:43 am

Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Kareem lost and that with prime Magic on his squad and only won 54 games at that.

There are other variables at play. 1983 Magic didn't score well for example. 1984 they got outrebounded.

Still had prime Magic and Worthy though two guys who won league and or finals MVP.

Jiminy Glick · Post #10 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:49 am

JordansBulls wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Kareem lost and that with prime Magic on his squad and only won 54 games at that.

There are other variables at play. 1983 Magic didn't score well for example. 1984 they got outrebounded.

Still had prime Magic and Worthy though two guys who won league and or finals MVP.

Tougher competition though I would say, wouldn't you? The 1983 Sixers and the 1984 Celtics were very good. Did Jordan play a team as good as them in the finals? Also I personally think prime Pippen was better then prime Magic because he was a better two way player and he complimented Jordan very well.

Johnlac1 · Post #11 » by **Johnlac1** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:51 am

Unlike Jordan, KAJ turned the fortunes of his team completely around his rookie year. But the addition of Robertson KAJ's soph year made the Bucks the best team in the league and won them a title.
The unfortunate thing about that Bucks team was Robertson was afflicted with injuries his last three years in the league and consequently was not the same player as he was during the Bucks title year. His last year was easily his worst year as he played with a variety of injuries including a torn groin muscle. That was the first time I can ever remember watching Robertson struggle.
However, the Bucks still made it to the finals on the strength of KAJ's play losing in seven games to the Celtics.
Would a healthy Robertson have won the Bucks maybe one more title? In '72 Robertson came down with muscle pulls in both legs during the playoffs. The Lakers had the best record in the league, but the Bucks were still strong a fully capable of beating them in the playoffs. Robertson though not the superstar of a few years previous was still a very good player. The Bucks snapped the Lakers 33 game win streak in January and won over 60 games.
When KAJ went to the Lakers he went to a weaker team than the Bucks. It took the arrival of Magic Johnson to team with KAJ to make the Lakers a great team again.
He was still a great center in the first half of the eighties and was still putting up good numbers in his late thirties. Not too many players in their mid to late thirties in league history put up the numbers KAJ did.

JordansBulls · Post #12 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:53 am

Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
There are other variables at play. 1983 Magic didn't score well for example. 1984 they got outrebounded.

Still had prime Magic and Worthy though two guys who won league and or finals MVP.

Tougher competition though I would say, wouldn't you? The 1983 Sixers and the 1984 Celtics were very good. Did Jordan play a team as good as them in the finals? Also I personally think prime Pippen was better then prime Magic because he was a better two way player and he complimented Jordan very well.

Prime Pippen better than prime Magic is a joke. :laugh:

Jiminy Glick · Post #13 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:01 am

JordansBulls wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Still had prime Magic and Worthy though two guys who won league and or finals MVP.

Tougher competition though I would say, wouldn't you? The 1983 Sixers and the 1984 Celtics were very good. Did Jordan play a team as good as them in the finals? Also I personally think prime Pippen was better then prime Magic because he was a better two way player and he complimented Jordan very well.

Prime Pippen better than prime Magic is a joke.

Well I personally think he was better and would rather have him on my team for a tournament.

Jiminy Glick · Post #14 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:07 am

Johnlac1 wrote:Unlike Jordan, KAJ turned the fortunes of his team completely around his rookie year. But the addition of Robertson KAJ's soph year made the Bucks the best team in the league and won them a title.
The unfortunate thing about that Bucks team was Robertson was afflicted with injuries his last three years in the league and consequently was not the same player as he was during the Bucks title year. His last year was easily his worst year as he played with a variety of injuries including a torn groin muscle. That was the first time I can ever remember watching Robertson struggle.
However, the Bucks still made it to the finals on the strength of KAJ's play losing in seven games to the Celtics.
Would a healthy Robertson have won the Bucks maybe one more title? In '72 Robertson came down with muscle pulls in both legs during the playoffs. The Lakers had the best record in the league, but the Bucks were still strong a fully capable of beating them in the playoffs. Robertson though not the superstar of a few years previous was still a very good player. The Bucks snapped the Lakers 33 game win streak in January and won over 60 games.
When KAJ went to the Lakers he went to a weaker team than the Bucks. It took the arrival of Magic Johnson to team with KAJ to make the Lakers a great team again.
He was still a great center in the first half of the eighties and was still putting up good numbers in his late thirties. Not too many players in their mid to late thirties in league history put up the numbers KAJ did.

Like how Jordan is remembered in terms of his 1st 3-peat (athletic Jordan) and his 2nd 3-peat Kareem is remembered in terms of the athletic Kareem and then the 80's Kareem.

keynote · Post #15 » by **keynote** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:09 am

If Kareem were more charismatic, less Muslim, less "sullen" (at least acc. to folks like Simmons), and had struck a symbiotic partnership with the biggest success in athletic apparel in the past 40 years, then we'd all feel a lot more comfortable accepting the fact that Kareem is the GOAT.

'Cause, based solely on the numbers (Rings; MVPs; Stats; All Star appearances; All NBA awards), it's not really close.

Kevin Johnson · Post #16 » by **Kevin Johnson** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:17 am

That skyhook is savage. Then you watch an old ass Chamberlain blocking it at the peak when Kareem was in his prime

Coxy · Post #17 » by **Coxy** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:27 am

Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
Tougher competition though I would say, wouldn't you? The 1983 Sixers and the 1984 Celtics were very good. Did Jordan play a team as good as them in the finals? Also I personally think prime Pippen was better then prime Magic because he was a better two way player and he complimented Jordan very well.

Prime Pippen better than prime Magic is a joke.

Well I personally think he was better and would rather have him on my team for a tournament.

I love me some Pippen, but dude you can't be serious.

Jiminy Glick · Post #18 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:59 am

Coxy wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:

Prime Pippen better than prime Magic is a joke.

Well I personally think he was better and would rather have him on my team for a tournament.

I love me some Pippen, but dude you can't be serious.

Well he was a better two way player.

TheGOATRises007 · Post #19 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:04 am

Jiminy Glick wrote:
Coxy wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
Well I personally think he was better and would rather have him on my team for a tournament.

I love me some Pippen, but dude you can't be serious.

Well he was a better two way player.

Magic's superior offensive edge far outweighs Pippen being a better 2 way player.

Yoshun · Post #20 » by **Yoshun** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:20 am

Jiminy Glick wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
There are other variables at play. 1983 Magic didn't score well for example. 1984 they got outrebounded.

Still had prime Magic and Worthy though two guys who won league and or finals MVP.

Tougher competition though I would say, wouldn't you? The 1983 Sixers and the 1984 Celtics were very good. Did Jordan play a team as good as them in the finals? Also I personally think prime Pippen was better then prime Magic because he was a better two way player and he complimented Jordan very well.

Pippen? Is that you?