Bigger upset: Houston beating GS or CLE not making it to finals

[dynamic duo]

Houston beating GS in WCF and it's not even close. Raps in 4.

[NyKnicks1714]

You could change Houston to anyone and the answer would still be that. The Warriors are a bigger favorite to win it all than the Cavs are to win the East.

[niQ]

LeBron has been to the finals 7 straight times.. I think it would be a pretty big upset to not see him there again.

[Stanq]

I'd be both shocked and happy if GSW loses to Houston. But I can't see the Cavs losing to a Raptors team that, even if better than last year, is not revamped. I still remember Lebron spinning the ball in his hand before hitting a dagger in Ibaka's face, and that just sums last year ECSF.

This is an entirely different team, compare stats from this year to last if you disagree.

I'll take our young guys over the Cav's new additions any day. I'm far from convinced that Hood, Hill, Clarkson, and Nance turn you into a contender. I really like our chances in that match up this year, if it happens.

Let's see.

They have always been a different team, and Raptors fan always say how they are better this year and this time Cavs will at least have a hard time. Never happened, and I don't see them winning this year. You just have some better role players but still no one that can guard LeBron (unless you think a rookie can slow down playoff Lebron), and our young players are more proven than yours, and the same goes for our stars.

[Splashin]

Cleveland not making the finals would surprise me more. Warriors look super complacent all year and rockets looking scary

[Ramed Nazored]

I'd be both shocked and happy if GSW loses to Houston. But I can't see the Cavs losing to a Raptors team that, even if better than last year, is not revamped. I still remember Lebron spinning the ball in his hand before hitting a dagger in Ibaka's face, and that just sums last year ECSF.

This is an entirely different team, compare stats from this year to last if you disagree.

I'll take our young guys over the Cav's new additions any day. I'm far from convinced that Hood, Hill, Clarkson, and Nance turn you into a contender. I really like our chances in that match up this year, if it happens.

Let's see.

They have always been a different team, and Raptors fan always say how they are better this year and this time Cavs will at least have a hard time. Never happened, and I don't see them winning this year. You just have some better role players but still no one that can guard LeBron (unless you think a rookie can slow down playoff Lebron), and our young players are more proven than yours, and the same goes for our stars.

Huh? Your young players haven't proven anything. Clarkson and Nance have been on one of the leagues worst teams for their entire careers. Osman hasn't played a single playoff game. What other young players could you be referring too? Hood? Hill? Hood has virtually no playoff experience. Hill isn't young. JR, Korver, and Green aren't "young players".

And what do you mean by we say we can beat you "every year"? The Raptors and the Cavs have faced each other in the post season twice. The first series was OK, but no one ever said a thing about us being able to beat you. The second series was awful, and I can't think of a single fan that I've interacted with who thought we had a chance in that series. It was a radically different team with a totally different style of play.

That and our starting PG was injured for half the series.

The only point of yours I agree with is that we don't have anyone who can slow down Lebron. That's it.

We'll see what happens though.

[ropjhk]

If you listen to ESPN and most mainstream US media you'd think there are no challengers for the Cavs in the East. I think casual fans may be more surprised by the Cavs losing, especially if they lose to the Raptors.

[Mamba4Goat]

I still kinda have Boston going to the finals...That being said, I think that Houston is set up really nicely to compete with Golden State and it wouldn't be crazy shocking if they came out ahead.

[lebron stopper]

I'd be both shocked and happy if GSW loses to Houston. But I can't see the Cavs losing to a Raptors team that, even if better than last year, is not revamped. I still remember Lebron spinning the ball in his hand before hitting a dagger in Ibaka's face, and that just sums last year ECSF.

This is an entirely different team, compare stats from this year to last if you disagree.

I'll take our young guys over the Cav's new additions any day. I'm far from convinced that Hood, Hill, Clarkson, and Nance turn you into a contender. I really like our chances in that match up this year, if it happens.

Let's see.

They have always been a different team, and Raptors fan always say how they are better this year and this time Cavs will at least have a hard time. Never happened, and I don't see them winning this year. You just have some better role players but still no one that can guard LeBron (unless you think a rookie can slow down playoff Lebron), and our young players are more proven than yours, and the same goes for our stars.

The biggest difference with this Raptors team is that they can score even if Lowry and DeRozan are having off nights.

Last postseason when Lowry and DeRozan couldn't score against Cavs, neither could the role players surrounding him (Carroll, Patterson, Tucker, Powell) when the Cavs dared those players to beat them. Tristan Thompson explicitly said that they could just trap and blitz Lowry and DeRozan to stop them from scoring and force the other players to score, which wouldn't work well as the other players were not used to doing so, as Lowry and DeRozan did the majority of heavy lifting on offense in the regular season.

Now this season, if DeRozan is getting trapped by multiple guys, he won't force up a bad shot, he will just swing the ball to the open man. The first meeting between the Cavs and Raptors showed DeRozan's increased ability and willingness to facilitate for others, which shredded apart the Cavs game plan to send multiple defenders at DeRozan. He saw the double and triple teams coming early and made the timely pass to the open man to beat the trap. Cavs got blown out 133-99 despite DeRozan having all of 13 points and Lowry and Ibaka not playing. (Although to be fair Ibaka isn't much of a difference maker for the Raptors.) Now, I don't think the Cavs defense is going to be anywhere near the horror show that got them blown out on national television on January 11 since their roster has transformed, but I think they will still have a tough time containing the Raptors new offense. (The Wall-less Wizards used ball movement to spark a comeback to beat the new Cavs last night. Now try to imagine them against the Raptors.)

Another point I'd like to bring up is defense. Defense alone isn't going to stop LeBron himself in the playoffs since he can carve up just about any defense thrown at him when he's on. You double him and he will find a wide open shooter guaranteed. You put one defender on him and he will still find a way to get to the rim most of the time. Or he will make iso 1 on 1 jumpers, which if he does again and again, well good luck I guess. There's no LeBron stopper (!) that will magically slow down LeBron. You have to outscore him. The Raptors new offense, led by DeRozan's improved playmaking and shooting, will put more pressure on the Cavs defense than ever before, and can easily rack up points if the Cavs mess up their defensive sequences, which is more likely now with DeRozan's ability to find the open man and make the right pass. And the Raptors new defense, which limits opposing 3 point attempts and forces opponents to take more midrange shots with lower efficiency, will make it tougher for LeBron's supporting cast to score.

Add that all up and you can see how LeBron is really going to have to be his best (aka super-ultra-human) to really beat this new Raptors team. And we all know he will definitely bring it, as he did against today's Warriors as well as the Spurs and Celtics from years ago. He will definitely bring it when his 7 year Finals streak is on the line. This new Raptors team is legit by a lot of measurements and if LeBron can beat the Raptors this year, I think that confirms that he really is one of the greatest. But we already knew that, of course.

There's a reason the new Raptors have the highest SRS in the East since the 2008 Celtics that won a championship. There's a reason the new Raptors are top 5 in the entire league in both offense (4th) and defense (3rd), and won 40 games before they lost 20. This year's Raptors team could be truly special. And given how much the Raptors were written off as has-been pretenders who should have blown it up after the disappointing sweep from last year, I really like where the Raptors are at right now and what they have shown so far. Despite the continued skepticism and dismissal of the Raptors, it's still a good time to be a Raptors fan overall. The Raptors chances of beating LeBron and the Cavs are about as good as anyone's.

[MovieMuscle]

Cleveland because Houston could very well beat the Warriors, and I wouldn't be surprised. The Warriors could also ramp it up in the Playoffs, and I wouldn't be surprised. The streak ending for LeBron would be crazier.