The myth of stars "carrying" teams vs. having a good team

[lambchop]

Is too much expected of stars in the playoffs?

Watching these playoff series I feel as though there's a myth that stars can carry their teams on a consistent basis. I think that's simply not true. Outside of players like Lebron and AD I don't see guys carrying teams. (No, this isn't a bron is the goat thread. If curry and durant were on other teams I'm convinced they could do the same). I just see more talented teams winning.

Some examples:
Lillard: couldn't influence the outcome of the games and was discouraged to shoot towards the end of the series.
Westbrook: averaged 45 pts in the last 2 games on 41 shots per game. That's really bad.

Paul George: 2-16 in an elimination game...
Harden: shoots 2 for 18 , his team wins in a 20 point blowout

Giannis: scores 22 points in a game 7, he didn't change the outcome of this game. Couldnt influence the game with his defense either
Oladipo: if they win there will be talk of how he carried them, when in fact he was awful for 3 games straight

Wall: probably the most consistent star in the playoffs along with KD, still got bounced cause his team wasnt good enough and he wasnt THAT dominant

Kyrie: If he were playing and were boston's topscorer people would talk about how he led boston to the 2nd round, when in fact you don't need an all-star PG to lead this team. They're doing just fine with Rozier at the helm

TLDR: Imo to have decent success in the POs you need some star power, a lot of depth and great coaching. Simply having stars with no depth and meh coaching won't be enough, because they won't "carry" their teams anywhere. No one can outside of ATG players. That's why I feel that stars who "fail" are held to too high standards. Do you feel the same?

[Balllin]

LeBron really seems like the only player who fits that description.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[Dominator83]

I felt that in 2013 the Indiana Pacers were a much better team than the Heat. But Lebron was the best player on the floor by such a wide margin that it didn't matter

But maybe it's turning out that Lebron is the exception as opposed to the rule

[TrustFundBaby]

Some guys you mentioned are tier 2 stars

I'm not blaming Wall,Lillard,PG for their losses.

But if RWB,Giannis want to be considered top 5, they need to lead a team out the first round

[lambchop]

I felt that in 2013 the Indiana Pacers were a much better team than the Heat. But Lebron was the best player on the floor by such a wide margin that it didn't matter

But maybe it's turning out that Lebron is the exception as opposed to the rule

yea that's why I said outside of all time great players

[Young_Star11]

Depends on the match-up / situation, so not a good look for Russ or Giannis

Lillard is a victim of his own hype, and he flopped, but the series was on AD.

[Jables]

Only to a certain extent it's not black and white. If a guy like Cousins has never made the playoffs that's dodgy to me, and I know they are on a different level but guys like Jordan, James took unbelievably bad teams to the playoffs and did surprisingly well, but then you need something more to win it all.

There are some stars on really good teams, that could not carry a bad team to anything. There are very few teams with stars like that who have won it all especially in the super team era. There will be points in time where you need a star to carry you. Giannis was not great in game 7, but over the year he has been carrying this team and needs a better coach and teammates to go to the next level.

[Hugi Mancura]

It depends a lot how team is build. LeBron have carried a team quite well, because team who he is playing in is build to enhance his abilities (well, not all the teams, but Miami and later Cavs). Giannis is in an awful situation. Team around him enhances his weaknesses. Meaning he has no shooting help and he himself is a bad shooter, so pretty much the other team can fill the 3 seconds area with 5 guys. When some superstar carries a team far (conference finals or further) there is usually some hidden thing that people don't want to see or don't care. Two good examples are 2001 76ers (Iverson) and 2007 Cavs (LeBron). Both were best defensive teams in NBA, sure both teams sucked in offense outside that star, but if you have best defensive team in NBA do you really have 'Bad team'?

[monopoman]

If you consider a player an elite top 5 player in the league he should be able to carry a team to wins in the playoffs.

[lakerz12]

I can't choose either answer. I don't think all-stars should carry their team but I also don't think coaching and depth are more important.

They are all important. The best teams have stars who produce, depth, and good coaching.

I do think certain stars are unfairly expected to carry the team. Because a star can't compensate for a significant lack of everything else.

[Pacersike]

It is very simple.

Your star player needs to be able to hit big and long shots to finish close games.

If your star player can't do that, he can also make a difference by making the right (defensive) plays/pass.

There is a very logical explanation for every star player who can carry or not carry a team. Some star players even have a carrying star teammate.

There are better places to discuss all, but Pacer fans very well know what is wrong with Paul George that makes he can not carry his team as far as Oladipo can carry it.

In a similar way, other perceived star players have other flaws that makes it difficult for them to carry their team in crunch time in the playoffs.

That's where it gets complicated, because all star players have different teams and coaches too.

It's not rocket science. Star players who can carry their team, don't have to win their series, but in some cases, it seems obvious to me which star players lack which skills to be able to carry their team.

Giannis lacks the jumpshot and court awareness and isn't even a very good defender. Very overrated because of his jumps and leaps.

Rudy Gobert is an impressive and smart defender who makes a big difference defensively. Very underrated because of his simple offense.

Star players are without any doubt more important than coach or team. Whoever votes the opposite is just in denial.

[Wizop]

I felt that in 2013 the Indiana Pacers were a much better team than the Heat.

was that the year Granger got hurt during the series? if so, the injury was our downfall.

Sent from my phone.

[Nuntius]

The way that the game is played right now has tilted the scale towards having a good team. You really need all 5 guys out there to be able to contribute on both ends of the floor. Hero-ball doesn't work as well as it used to work and it looks like only the absolutely elite (mainly LeBron) can do it on their own.

[Trippinskarlo]

Is too much expected of stars in the playoffs?

Watching these playoff series I feel as though there's a myth that stars can carry their teams on a consistent basis. I think that's simply not true. Outside of players like Lebron and AD I don't see guys carrying teams. (No, this isn't a bron is the goat thread. If curry and durant were on other teams I'm convinced they could do the same). I just see more talented teams winning.

Some examples:
Lillard: couldn't influence the outcome of the games and was discouraged to shoot towards the end of the series.
Westbrook: averaged 45 pts in the last 2 games on 41 shots per game. That's really bad.

Paul George: 2-16 in an elimination game...
Harden: shoots 2 for 18 , his team wins in a 20 point blowout

Giannis: scores 22 points in a game 7, he didn't change the outcome of this game. Couldnt influence the game with his defense either
Oladipo: if they win there will be talk of how he carried them, when in fact he was awful for 3 games straight

Wall: probably the most consistent star in the playoffs along with KD, still got bounced cause his team wasnt good enough and he wasnt THAT dominant

Kyrie: If he were playing and were boston's topscorer people would talk about how he led boston to the 2nd round, when in fact you don't need an all-star PG to lead this team. They're doing just fine with Rozier at the helm

TLDR: Imo to have decent success in the POs you need some star power, a lot of depth and great coaching. Simply having stars with no depth and meh coaching won't be enough, because they won't "carry" their teams anywhere. No one can outside of ATG players. That's why I feel that stars who "fail" are held to too high standards. Do you feel the same?

Pro tip:
Scary Terry is a SOON to be all star point gaurd.