Embiid's antics have gone too far. NBA needs to stop him.

[JRoy]

Do you guys think the mid 90's to early 00's are the entire history of the NBA? These are what nba stats have historically looked like....

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

According to this 2022 is the highest team scoring since 1969, the year I was born.

Not as inflated as I thought. Some interesting data.

I'd also add, despite what this forum seems to think. The last two seasons were the lowest free throw rates in terms of free throws to field goal attempts in nba history. So while everyone is crying about foul baiting and how offensive players just spend the game at the line...the reality was the last two years are the fewest free throws to field goals we've ever seen.

Probably because so many threes.

Curious if the ratio of fouls on 2 point shots has changed much.

[dhsilv2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

According to this 2022 is the highest team scoring since 1969, the year I was born.

Not as inflated as I thought. Some interesting data.

I'd also add, despite what this forum seems to think. The last two seasons were the lowest free throw rates in terms of free throws to field goal attempts in nba history. So while everyone is crying about foul baiting and how offensive players just spend the game at the line...the reality was the last two years are the fewest free throws to field goals we've ever seen.

Probably because so many threes.

Curious if the ratio of fouls on 2 point shots has changed much.

Possible but people complain too many fouls on 3's too and to add to that. And 3 free throws is 50% more than 2 just like the shots, so it would mean that the 3's are just causing less fouls but significantly less, which would bring to question another narrative we hear.

[CoP]

I'd also add, despite what this forum seems to think. The last two seasons were the lowest free throw rates in terms of free throws to field goal attempts in nba history. So while everyone is crying about foul baiting and how offensive players just spend the game at the line...the reality was the last two years are the fewest free throws to field goals we've ever seen.

Initially I saw this post and felt like it needed more context around how shot distribution has changed over the years. My theory was that a valid complaint today is that there are too many fouls called on perimeter shots, whereas 20 years ago, there were more fouls called in the paint.

So I started digging a little, and seemed to find some evidence of what I was thinking - FTr rate has gradually declined over the last 20 years, but the median shot distance has gone up (I calculated this using the % of FGA shooting stats on bbref). This seemed to show that the declining FTr is due to a larger percentage of perimeter shots, and so recent complaints about foul baiting were still valid. Fans generally feel as though fouls called in the paint on post-ups or drives are more legitimate than those on jump shots on the perimeter.


Then I decided to visualize the shot distribution in more detail and came up with the below. What I think it clearly shows is that the increased median shot distance is due to 3-pointers supplanting long 2s. That's pretty much it. As you can see, the cumulative percentage of shots under 16 feet, and the cumulative percentage of shots under 10 feet, has stayed relatively steady over the last 20 years. There really has not been a sharp decline in shots in the paint.


What I could not find was FTr by shot distance, which would provide the indisputable proof on whether fouls are being called on perimeter shots more often today than they used to be. Conceivably, there could have been a sizable increase in FTr for perimeter shots, but that increase has perhaps not been as sharp as the decrease in FTr for paint/RA shots, the result of which would be a gradual decline in overall FTr.

[Texas Chuck]

alright then, good talk. Find the one small error and focus on that and not the larger point.

LOL, I simply posted to make two indisputable points:

Luka and Embiid aren't ruining the league
And that while they definitely flop, exaggerate, etc to buy calls, they also deserve the majority of the FT's they do get, and deserve some they don't. But because I got a minor detail wrong--but not the meat of what I meant at all, that's the focus.

Yep, any player who shoots a lot of FT's is cheating to get them and should immediately be banned I guess. What are we doing?

[WiggOuts]

If he was on your team you would not care. Like most of the NBA and it's fans.

Embiid doesn't do it on purpose. Not sure what to say to convince you, but there isn't much point to this conversation between you and I.

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If he was on my team, I'd have the grace to admit it was sketchy. Much like I admitted Lowry was one of the worst floppers in the league.

Lol I've said he can be reckless. I didn't like him tripping someone recently. He's not trying to hurt people. He's not malicious. Also just because you acknowledged something doesn't mean that I have to. Especially if I don't agree. This isn't a marriage.

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[WiggOuts]

Lol not even responding to what I'm actually saying. This is just a bunch of been and forth. Do you have an actual defense for what Siakim did?

Embiid actually tries to score most of the time he hits someone inadvertant elbows happen all the time. See Shaq. Shaq wouldn't flop but Mutombo had his face remolded by Shaq's elbows in the finals.

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People are complaining that Embiid is both a flopper and dirty. You call them whiners. I point out that you whined (incessantly I might add) when Siakam elbowed Embiid in the face. Pot calling kettle black. You now somehow don't get the conversation.

I said the Siakam play was dirty at the time. I also said that Embiid sort of got what was coming to him, given all the dirty plays he's done in the past to the Raptors and to other players.

Now your turn to admit Embiid has a history of dirty plays..

Embiid can be reckless, he's not inherently dirty.

Dirty is Zaza Pachulia and Kelly Olynk.

I whined incessantly? I was complaining about fans celebrating him getting hurt and and saying he got what he deserved, just like you did. No one deserves to get their face broken, sorry.

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this was not long before Siakam elbowed him. Siakam is not a dirty player trying to hurt people to get an edge, but if you keep pushing a person, you will reap what you sow

[WiggOuts]

Watch on YouTube

hes not just trying to hurt people, hes trying to end careers

[dhsilv2]

I'd also add, despite what this forum seems to think. The last two seasons were the lowest free throw rates in terms of free throws to field goal attempts in nba history. So while everyone is crying about foul baiting and how offensive players just spend the game at the line...the reality was the last two years are the fewest free throws to field goals we've ever seen.

Initially I saw this post and felt like it needed more context around how shot distribution has changed over the years. My theory was that a valid complaint today is that there are too many fouls called on perimeter shots, whereas 20 years ago, there were more fouls called in the paint.

So I started digging a little, and seemed to find some evidence of what I was thinking - FTr rate has gradually declined over the last 20 years, but the median shot distance has gone up (I calculated this using the % of FGA shooting stats on bbref). This seemed to show that the declining FTr is due to a larger percentage of perimeter shots, and so recent complaints about foul baiting were still valid. Fans generally feel as though fouls called in the paint on post-ups or drives are more legitimate than those on jump shots on the perimeter.


Then I decided to visualize the shot distribution in more detail and came up with the below. What I think it clearly shows is that the increased median shot distance is due to 3-pointers supplanting long 2s. That's pretty much it. As you can see, the cumulative percentage of shots under 16 feet, and the cumulative percentage of shots under 10 feet, has stayed relatively steady over the last 20 years. There really has not been a sharp decline in shots in the paint.

What I could not find was FTr by shot distance, which would provide the indisputable proof on whether fouls are being called on perimeter shots more often today than they used to be. Conceivably, there could have been a sizable increase in FTr for perimeter shots, but that increase has perhaps not been as sharp as the decrease in FTr for paint/RA shots, the result of which would be a gradual decline in overall FTr.

Thanks,

I've done similar with the shot distribution.

[WiggOuts]

Watch on YouTube

this elbows was viscous

[Duffman100]

Watch on YouTube

hes not just trying to hurt people, hes trying to end careers

You're honestly wasting your time. These clips have been shown to them constantly.

He had 5-6 incidents in the 1st round before his face got broken. Not even including the ones you're now sharing.

They either come up with an excuse or in the case of mksp, just stops responding.

[WiggOuts]

Watch on YouTube

hes not just trying to hurt people, hes trying to end careers

You're honestly wasting your time. These clips have been shown to them constantly.

He had 5-6 incidents in the 1st round before his face got broken. Not even including the ones you're now sharing.

They either come up with an excuse or in the case of mksp, just stops responding.

thats fine, he can die on his hill, everyone else will stand, watch and whisper about him lol

[mademan]

Embiid is just dangerous, and at some point, it stops mattering if it's intentional or not. In effect, he's the most dirty player in the league

[JRoy]

There is a difference between physical play and dangerous play. All of those could have resulted in serious injury.

[alebaba]

Embiid is just dangerous, and at some point, it stops mattering if it's intentional or not. In effect, he's the most dirty player in the league

I dont know about that, Draymond is still in the league..

[AbeVigodaLive]

alright then, good talk. Find the one small error and focus on that and not the larger point.

LOL, I simply posted to make two indisputable points:

Luka and Embiid aren't ruining the league
And that while they definitely flop, exaggerate, etc to buy calls, they also deserve the majority of the FT's they do get, and deserve some they don't. But because I got a minor detail wrong--but not the meat of what I meant at all, that's the focus.

Yep, any player who shoots a lot of FT's is cheating to get them and should immediately be banned I guess. What are we doing?

I think this is directed at me?

I never made any of those claims. At worst, I said they get a fair or favorable whistle... and posted statistics to back that up. If I refuted your claims and showed them to be inaccurate in the process, so be it.

Isn't that the sort of discourse we want around here?

[Duke4life831]

I dont think its ruining the game or anything like that, but I will say I find it boring to watch. I also find it funny watching the differences between college and NBA on how the game is called.

In college it seems like its almost impossible to get an And'1, the continuation is far more strict. Also a couple games back Tyrese Proctor a Duke player shot a 3, got hit in the arm and came down and landed on the defender's foot. He did exaggerate the contact and fell down. But in the NBA after review it wouldve been an automatic flagrant foul because the defender didnt give him space to land. But in college it was called a technical foul for flopping. So instead of getting the flagrant foul call on the 3, Kansas got to shoot a FT.

So long story short, the NBA could put an end to this right away if they wanted to just like college has. But they dont, they dont mind stars getting to the line. So ya if NBA players take advantage of it, I find it horrible to watch and usually dont, but I have a hard time blaming the players. Its a very easy and quick fix if the NBA actually wanted to fix it. They just dont.

[Texas Chuck]

alright then, good talk. Find the one small error and focus on that and not the larger point.

LOL, I simply posted to make two indisputable points:

Luka and Embiid aren't ruining the league
And that while they definitely flop, exaggerate, etc to buy calls, they also deserve the majority of the FT's they do get, and deserve some they don't. But because I got a minor detail wrong--but not the meat of what I meant at all, that's the focus.

Yep, any player who shoots a lot of FT's is cheating to get them and should immediately be banned I guess. What are we doing?

I think this is directed at me?

I never made any of those claims. At worst, I said they get a fair or favorable whistle... and posted statistics to back that up. If I refuted your claims and showed them to be inaccurate in the process, so be it.

Isn't that the sort of discourse we want around here?

Yep, I lumped you in with previous posters incorrectly. 100% on me. Your point is fine. My apologies.

[eyeatoma]

I dont think its ruining the game or anything like that, but I will say I find it boring to watch. I also find it funny watching the differences between college and NBA on who the game is called.

In college it seems like its almost impossible to get an And'1, the continuation is far more strict. Also a couple games back Tyrese Proctor a Duke player shot a 3, got hit in the arm and came down and landed on the defender's foot. He did exaggerate the contact and fell down. But in the NBA after review it wouldve been an automatic flagrant foul because the defender didnt give him space to land. But in college it was called a technical foul for flopping. So instead of getting the flagrant foul call on the 3, Kansas got to shoot a FT.

So long story short, the NBA could put an end to this right away if they wanted to just like college has. But they dont, they dont mind stars getting to the line. So ya if NBA players take advantage of it, I find it horrible to watch and usually dont, but I have a hard time blaming the players. Its a very easy and quick fix if the NBA actually wanted to fix it. They just dont.

This!

[thonnisbeastley]

Embiid is both:
-dirtiest player in the league
-biggest flopper

It's really unfortunate considering how talented he is. Went from one of if not the most beloved, by everybody, as he ascended into superstar territory and is now just an unfortunate joke. I guess losing the MVP to Giannis and Jokic 4 years in a row on top of never making it out of the 2nd round in the playoffs really got to him and his once not so fragile ego. It's just sad to watch at this point. The NBA continuing to allow it is even sadder.

[WiggOuts]

I think Trey Young deserves a mention here as well. Not so much for being dirty, but for the flopping and general embellishment of everything he does to hunt for fouls...A LOT of it is not basketball plays. These guys are playing within the rules of the game unfortunately, but like the other guys have said, its terrible to watch and makes for a bad product...if everyone was given the same treatment it wouldnt matter but Luka, Embiid and Trey are making a mockery of the system