Wemby DPOY

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Wemby DPOY his rookie season?

Yes
86
36%
No
154
64%
 
Total votes: 240

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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#101 » by Miami_Lux » Thu Mar 7, 2024 9:51 pm

tsherkin wrote:
D.Brasco wrote:Do you think Wemby should be the DPOY at this stage?


I do.

For clarity's sake, I am not arguing against the idea that he isn't the DPOY. There are other guys who are valid choices as well.

My contention is that looking at team record is stupid, even if that's what most awards end up doing anyway.


So you think that a player can win DPOY with the team having the third-worst record and third-worst defensive ranking? I m not saying this is all Wemby's fault but at some point, there needs to be a correlation between putting up great defensive stats AND winning. I also believe that replacing Wemby with Gobert would improve the Spurs defense significantly aka they would definitely have a better defensive ranking and probably more wins as well.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#102 » by tsherkin » Thu Mar 7, 2024 9:55 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:So you think that a player can win DPOY with the team having the third-worst record and third-worst defensive ranking? I m not saying this is all Wemby's fault but at some point, there needs to be a correlation between putting up great defensive stats AND winning. I also believe that replacing Wemby with Gobert would improve the Spurs defense significantly aka they would definitely have a better defensive ranking and probably more wins as well.


Yes, I do. I'm not gonna die on the hill that he IS the DPOY, but the notion that he isn't exerting DPOY-level impact is strange to me. San Antonio was the worst D in the league last year, and they are doing much better when he's on the court.

Meantime, the correlation between defensive stats and winning comes when you're also not witlessly incompetent on offense, and the Spurs have been dreadful at either end because they were bloody awful last year and all that's really changed is Wemby's arrival.

Replacing Wemby with Gobert wouldn't do a thing, IMHO. They might even be worse, because he's less of an offensive driver.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#103 » by Jables » Thu Mar 7, 2024 10:31 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
D.Brasco wrote:Do you think Wemby should be the DPOY at this stage?


I do.

For clarity's sake, I am not arguing against the idea that he isn't the DPOY. There are other guys who are valid choices as well.

My contention is that looking at team record is stupid, even if that's what most awards end up doing anyway.


So you think that a player can win DPOY with the team having the third-worst record and third-worst defensive ranking? I m not saying this is all Wemby's fault but at some point, there needs to be a correlation between putting up great defensive stats AND winning. I also believe that replacing Wemby with Gobert would improve the Spurs defense significantly aka they would definitely have a better defensive ranking and probably more wins as well.

I am deceased. What could Gobert possibly do that makes up the difference and get them more wins?

No one is single handedly making a team that is basically at the tanking level, intentionally or not, into an average or above average defensive team. The DPOY award has been turned into a team award, you'd think Marcus Smart is a better defender than Wembanyama.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#104 » by Hornet Mania » Thu Mar 7, 2024 10:33 pm

Bornstellar wrote:
Hornet Mania wrote:He won't reach the 65 game minimum to be eligible, at least not this season.

In the future as he bulks up, learns the game, and the Spurs let him loose a bit more he will likely win DPOY.

56 games played so far, with 19 remaining (out tonight with ankle sprain). Only needs to play in about half of the remaining games. Seems like he will hit 65 despite the coaching staff coddling him like a china doll all season :)


He's been remarkably healthy this year, even with the Spurs being cautious with him. I hope the medical staff's approach keeps working for him.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#105 » by theFireBlanket » Thu Mar 7, 2024 11:02 pm

Team ranks 25th in defense. So, no.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#106 » by 165bows » Thu Mar 7, 2024 11:58 pm

WestGOAT wrote:
The-Power wrote:
WestGOAT wrote:Embiid 70+ points, Sengun 40+, hope ppl can calm down now with the DPOY talk and let Wemby develop without too much pressure.

Tell me, who then do you believe deserves to be in DPOY consideration? I personally do not have Victor as the DPOY but it's not crazy to have him in the conversation and a couple individual games in which someone scores well does not change that at all. DPOY is about the broader picture, and everyone who points to individual match-ups likely does it to promote a biased view (on both sides).


My point is people in this thread are getting carried away anointing Wemby DPOY already, Gobert should be hands down the favourite, and if you want place a lot of emphasis on defensive on/off, Brook Lopez has a better defensive on/off, while also playing more minutes. Wemby -9.70 and Lopez -11.41 in non-garbage minutes:
https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612759&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh
https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612749&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

Wemby shouldn';t get a pass for not playing Center straight-away, actual sustained impact over potential should matter

Tough to give DPOY to a guy on one of the league’s worst defensive teams.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#107 » by Miami_Lux » Fri Mar 8, 2024 9:21 am

Jables wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
I do.

For clarity's sake, I am not arguing against the idea that he isn't the DPOY. There are other guys who are valid choices as well.

My contention is that looking at team record is stupid, even if that's what most awards end up doing anyway.


So you think that a player can win DPOY with the team having the third-worst record and third-worst defensive ranking? I m not saying this is all Wemby's fault but at some point, there needs to be a correlation between putting up great defensive stats AND winning. I also believe that replacing Wemby with Gobert would improve the Spurs defense significantly aka they would definitely have a better defensive ranking and probably more wins as well.

I am deceased. What could Gobert possibly do that makes up the difference and get them more wins?

No one is single handedly making a team that is basically at the tanking level, intentionally or not, into an average or above average defensive team. The DPOY award has been turned into a team award, you'd think Marcus Smart is a better defender than Wembanyama.


Smart is a seasoned player who has won DPOY. So yes right now Smart is a better defender than Wemby. How is that even aa question? Wemby is 19 years old. How could he possibly be better than those players in terms of defensive impact.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#108 » by Dez » Fri Mar 8, 2024 10:09 am

theFireBlanket wrote:Team ranks 25th in defense. So, no.


They'd rank 31st out of 30 without him.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#109 » by tsherkin » Fri Mar 8, 2024 2:23 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:Smart is a seasoned player who has won DPOY. So yes right now Smart is a better defender than Wemby. How is that even aa question?


That's not a logically sound position. Just because he was given the award doesn't mean he's actually a better defender.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#110 » by Fairview4Life » Fri Mar 8, 2024 2:27 pm

Dez wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Team ranks 25th in defense. So, no.


They'd rank 31st out of 30 without him.


Yeah they're ~13th with him on the court and the worst team in the NBA by 2 points per 100 possessions when he's on the bench. 7.2 points/100 swing.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#111 » by Miami_Lux » Fri Mar 8, 2024 3:32 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:Smart is a seasoned player who has won DPOY. So yes right now Smart is a better defender than Wemby. How is that even aa question?


That's not a logically sound position. Just because he was given the award doesn't mean he's actually a better defender.


Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie. I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#112 » by tsherkin » Fri Mar 8, 2024 3:43 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie.


Nothing about that award suggests that he's a higher-impact defender than Wemby.

I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.


Right, but again, San Antonio was literally the worst defense in the league last season. Without him on the floor, they ARE the worst defense in the league, and by a significant margin. He's actually exerting an IMMENSE impact on their D. You're just looking at wins and DRTG, which don't actually offer that much insight into anything in this case.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#113 » by Dez » Fri Mar 8, 2024 3:53 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:Smart is a seasoned player who has won DPOY. So yes right now Smart is a better defender than Wemby. How is that even aa question?


That's not a logically sound position. Just because he was given the award doesn't mean he's actually a better defender.


Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie. I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.


It's you, clearly you.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#114 » by Miami_Lux » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:11 pm

Dez wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
That's not a logically sound position. Just because he was given the award doesn't mean he's actually a better defender.


Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie. I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.


It's you, clearly you.


Why? I not the one holding the position that a 19 year old rookie on the third worst defensive team in the league is potentially DPOY. That’s an objectively ridiculous assertion.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#115 » by tsherkin » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:33 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:
Dez wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:
Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie. I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.


It's you, clearly you.


Why? I not the one holding the position that a 19 year old rookie on the third worst defensive team in the league is potentially DPOY. That’s an objectively ridiculous assertion.


No, you're just not actively engaging in the subject and instead, hanging out on superficial analysis.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#116 » by Bornstellar » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:37 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:
Dez wrote:
Miami_Lux wrote:
Maybe not the best defender in the league but certainly better than a 19-old rookie. I am not sure who holds the unlogical position here. If you said Wemby has the higher ceiling on defense I d be on board with you. But to say he is better right now than some of the best defenders in the league seems way to premature especially given the team's poor record and defense rating.


It's you, clearly you.


Why? I not the one holding the position that a 19 year old rookie on the third worst defensive team in the league is potentially DPOY. That’s an objectively ridiculous assertion.

You should look up what the word "objectively" means, because your opinion is not objective :wink:
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#117 » by TheGeneral99 » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:39 pm

He's 1st team all NBA...but I think guys like Bam and Gobert still have the edge.

That being said, Wemby will likely be a perennial DPOY winner in his career.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#118 » by docholliday99 » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:52 pm

It's tough not to factor in the win-loss record of a team when thinking who might be the DPOY, but I also like to factor in the roster and who they are playing with, as defense is a team's sport and nothing effects a center more than having weak POA defenders.
I think the DPOY is coming down to 2 players, Gobert and Wemby. There's no doubting Gobert's impact and he's playing some of the best defense I've seen from him in a while. That said, it's really hard not to discount Wemby, who's really been surging and the teams rating with and without him screams impact.


Grinding out wins has been difficult enough for the Spurs even with Victor Wembanyama trying to lift the team up like a lanky Atlas. Without him, it’s been downright impossible.

The Spurs (13-49) will be without the vitalizing services of the presumptive Rookie of the Year Thursday night when they play at Sacramento as he nurses a right ankle sprain sustained in Tuesday’s 114-101 loss at Houston. It will mark the team’s seventh game without Wembanyama, and they’ll seek to claim a victory for the first time sans the 7-foot-3 marvel.
WEMBY SIDELINED: Spurs to face Sacramento without Victor Wembanyama

The Spurs are 0-6 without Wembanyama and have been outscored by 69 points in losses to New Orleans (121-106), Milwaukee (132-119), Dallas (144-119), Portland (134-128), Chicago (122-116) and Charlotte (124-120). They’ve surrendered an average of 129.5 points in those outings, 5.1 points worse than Washington’s last-place defense has allowed this season.

The Kings (35-26) rank eighth in scoring at 118.2 per game and own a 2-0 record against the Spurs, winning 129-120 on Nov. 17 and 127-122 on Feb. 22. Wembanyama averaged 23.0 points, 11.0 rebounds, 3.5 steals, 2.5 blocks and 2.0 assists in the losses.
Wretched team record aside, the 20-year-old had been on a special kind of tear of late while pocketing consecutive Rookie of the Month awards. He averaged 22.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 3.6 blocks, 1.9 3-pointers and 1.4 steals over 26 games in January and February and kicked off March with an otherworldly 31-point, 12-rebound, six-assist, six-block masterpiece in a 117-105 win over Indiana.

His absence Thursday could create a host of problems for the Spurs. When Wembanyama sits the Spurs' defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) skyrockets from 112.2 to 119.8, and their net rating (point differential per 100) plummets from minus-4.5 to minus -11.9 – some of the league’s most dramatic splits.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/victor-wembanyama-sits-out-spurs-sink-new-lows-18709877.php#:~:text=His%20absence%20Thursday%20could%20create,the%20league's%20most%20dramatic%20splits.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#119 » by Myth » Fri Mar 8, 2024 5:04 pm

Miami_Lux wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
D.Brasco wrote:Do you think Wemby should be the DPOY at this stage?


I do.

For clarity's sake, I am not arguing against the idea that he isn't the DPOY. There are other guys who are valid choices as well.

My contention is that looking at team record is stupid, even if that's what most awards end up doing anyway.


So you think that a player can win DPOY with the team having the third-worst record and third-worst defensive ranking? I m not saying this is all Wemby's fault but at some point, there needs to be a correlation between putting up great defensive stats AND winning. I also believe that replacing Wemby with Gobert would improve the Spurs defense significantly aka they would definitely have a better defensive ranking and probably more wins as well.


So much of that is punishing him for how bad his team is without him. I just watched a video that showed the last 10 games for the Spurs (probably not updated for a couple games) in which Spurs allowed 111.8 points per 100 possessions when he is on the floor (top 3 in the league), but 121.8 per 100 possessions when he is off (worst in the league). That is a crazy difference between how good his team is with him vs without him on defense. I don’t know those stats for the whole season nor am I invested enough to research it, but it certainly shows the impact of his defense while explaining why the team defense is bad. It is defensive player of the year, not defensive team of the year, but given that MVP is often best player on the best team, I do expect Gobert to get it for a similar reason being the best defender on the best defensive team.
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Re: Wemby DPOY 

Post#120 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Mar 8, 2024 5:10 pm

At 28 MPG, on a bad defensive team, that would be a crime.

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